Diala's Impercise Strike

[R5D8 420]

Hi guys and gals.

 

I had two questions on this character's ability of Precise Strike.  I have played a lot but, as it happens, every discussion I read on here makes me triple think what I had originally interpreted.

 

1. Precise Strike, "Limit once per Activation".  This has been asked on another thread, but that kind of Fizzled (GET IT!?!? I make joke.)  In a recent game, a friend of mine had Diala use Precise Strike, and then his next activation he had Gideon use Command to have Diala attack again, and tried to use Precise Strike again. As the Imperial player, this was detrimental to my cause, so I pointed out she had a limit of "once per activation". His position was, "Right. Once per activation. So once during her activation, and once during Gideon's activation."

 

Was there ever any official ruling on this that I could point to and say, "Neener Neener!"?

 

 

2.  Oppression. The 4 XP ability of the Subversive Tactics deck states that "When a hero who has suffered 2+ strain declares an attack, apply +1 Evade to the defense result." Precise Strike: "Use when you declare an attack with a melee weapon."

Hrm, so does Oppression apply? The Rebel player says, "No, because I declared an attack with no strain, then during the declaration I then added the strain, after Oppression checks for it." The Imperial player (me) says, "Yes, because Declaration is one step and the declaration isn't complete until you roll dice, therefore Diala has 2 strain and Oppression applies." Looking at Timing, one portion says that in a campaign, follow mission rules, then effects triggered by Imperial, then effects triggered by Rebels. Two paragraphs down, it says during an attack, resolve mission rules, then effects triggered by the attacker, then effects triggered by the defender.

I am unclear on which to follow.

 

Thanks for any help.

[Baer 137]

Hi.

For me it seems diala can use the strike both times. Because it is as they say.

On the second point it comes down to activation order because you have two effects triggering in the same window. The rrg on page 9 - conflicts in a campaign - says that the imperial handles all his effects first. So it would be first checked if diala got 2 strain before applying the 2 strain.

[R5D8 420]

Even though under Timing on page 2 it says that during an attack, mission rules, then attacker effects, then defender effects?

This is what our discussion revolved around... trying to figure out which one of these Timing instances to follow. Is the class card a defender effect or is it something more, like a "global"?

[Baer 137]

I overlook that part every time. You are right. It reads during an attack in campaign at start. So diala is stressed from precise strike when your class cars checks. Sorry.

The important part is that this rule explicitly states that it overrides the other ones.

[R5D8 420]

If it is a defender effect, yes.  What we were debating was whether that was the case. My friend's argument was that, as a Class card, it was a more general Imperial effect, and shouldn't be considered part of the defender effects, and therefore should be resolved first.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Baer 137]

It is a defender effect as it does not state it is a mission rule or game rule and you are the defending player.

[Fizz 986]

The "Limit Once Per Activation" language only applies to Diala's Activation, not Gideon's.

It is worded in this manner to support the "Heroic" and "Legendary" reward cards for games with 3 and 2 heroes (respectively) so that Diala may perform as many Precise Strikes as *SHE* has activations.

EDIT: Striking invalid opinions.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Fizz

[R5D8 420]

The "Limit Once Per Activation" language only applies to Diala's Activation, not Gideon's.

 

It is worded in this manner to support the "Heroic" and "Legendary" reward cards for games with 3 and 2 heroes (respectively) so that Diala may perform as many Precise Strikes as *SHE* has activations.

 

See, this was how I've always played it. However, none of us can find where this is spelled out.  I feel as though my friend is simply taking a liberal interpretation, however I cannot find something I can point to in order to clearly show it.

[tomkat364 528]

It doesn't say "once per round", so I would go with limiting it to a single occurrence on HER activation only. If Gideon has an ability that let's her attack out of her activation, I would think she could use this again. It is not a card that she exhausts and needs to ready, so I think the literal interpretation would follow.

[Fizz 986]

It doesn't say "once per round", so I would go with limiting it to a single occurrence on HER activation only. If Gideon has an ability that let's her attack out of her activation, I would think she could use this again. It is not a card that she exhausts and needs to ready, so I think the literal interpretation would follow.

Note that if Gideon grants her an attack, she is interrupting Gideon's activation and making an attack or moving, not gaining an activation. The argument presented is that because it says "Limit once per activation", that somehow this applies when other figures activate.

If it said "Once per Round", then if she had a second activation granted by "Heroic" or "Legendary", then she would not be able to use it on her second activation.

[R5D8 420]

Would have certainly made it easier to have written, "Usable once per Diala's activation."

[Fizz 986]

Would have certainly made it easier to have written, "Usable once per Diala's activation."

Hindsight is always 20/20. Always in motion is the future.

[Baer 137]

Well they do have a wording for once per round and twice per round in heroic mode.

Jyns quick shot has "once per activation token"

[R5D8 420]

Received an answer from Mr. Paul Winchester.

 

1. If she had zero strain and declared an attack against an Imperial player who had the 4 XP Subversive Tactics class card Oppression, then did Precise Strike for 2 strain, does Oppression apply?

 

"A: Since both abilities trigger when the attack is declared, attacker effects resolve first followed by defender effects. This means that by the time Oppression would trigger, Diala would have already spent the 2 strain for Precise Strike and therefore an evade would be added to the defense results."

 

 

2. Precise Strike says, "Limit once per activation." Can she use Precise Strike on her activation, and then use it when Gideon Commands her on his activation? What about End of Round effects such as in the mission Temptation?

 

"A: Once per activation is once during each activation so she could use it once on her turn and once on Gideon's turn. Since no activation is occuring during End of Round effects, she cannot use that ability at that time."

 

 

So.... there we have it.

[a1bert 4,115]

Some more recent rulings for Verena's abilities conflicted this old ruling, so I asked Todd's opinion.

The BGG thread with additional discussion here: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1764817/oppression-ruling

My question said:

Hi Todd,
I came across a question about the interaction between Diala's Precise Strike and the Oppression class card. However, I think the existing ruling is not fully considering the difference between when an ability is triggered and when it is resolved.

In this case, if Diala has suffered 1 or less strain when she declares an attack, Oppression does not activate. If she decides to use Precise Strike, the cost of Precise Strike is suffered when the Precise Strike is being resolved. At no point is a hero who has suffered 2 or more strain declaring an attack.

Whether she chooses to use Precise Strike or not is irrelevant to Oppression's trigger condition.

What do you think?

The original question and answer is copied below:

1. If she had zero strain and declared an attack against an Imperial player who had the 4 XP Subversive Tactics class card Oppression, then did Precise Strike for 2 strain, does Oppression apply?

"A: Since both abilities trigger when the attack is declared, attacker effects resolve first followed by defender effects. This means that by the time Oppression would trigger, Diala would have already spent the 2 strain for Precise Strike and therefore an evade would be added to the defense results."

 

Todd Michlitsch, FFG said:

Hi Pasi,

If Diala has suffered 1 or fewer strain when the attack is declared, then even if she suffers strain as part of an effect (like Precise Strike), then Oppression’s trigger is never activated. In this case, Oppression does not apply an additional evade to the defense.

 

You are correct that the original ruling didn’t account for the difference between Oppression’s trigger being activated and it’s effect being valid if it had triggered. That original ruling should be disregarded. Oppression does not trigger in the example.

 

Sorry for any confusion, but I hope that helps!

 

Todd Michlitsch
Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games

Edited April 29, 2017 by a1bert

[a1bert 4,115]

Btw, to resolve the very old discussion about "Limit once per activation" means once per any activation. (This has certainly been made clear elsewhere, so I'm including this just to make it clear in the thread it has been discussed.)

Diala can use Precise Strike once during her own activation (multiple times per round if she has more than one activation token), and once during Gideon's activation (multiple times per round if Gideon has more than one activation token), but not when no activation is happening (such as status phase events allowing to perform attacks).

An ability needs to have "once during your activation" to limit it to your own activation.

 

[Fizz 986]

Yep, i struck my opinions from the record.