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Intensify Forward Firepower Episode XII: The Fleshing at Sullust

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-The AF is truely the most versatile ship in the game. I mostly play Rebels because my sparring partner is a diehard Imperial guy. I can't wait to try to build a good Imperial list. But I think it may require more GSD's to do so, or the ISD at 400 points may be a good anchor for some VSD's.

 

 

Don't constrain yourself to only Red vs Blue games.  If you want to try some Imperials, you should go right ahead.  More practice the better.

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Rebel vs Rebel is probably the hardest to play well because of how hard it is to force your opponent to engage on your terms when they can move just as fast as you can along with everything happening at long range.  It is usually easy to predict where Imperial ships will be.  Rebel ships much less so.

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Rebel vs Rebel is probably the hardest to play well because of how hard it is to force your opponent to engage on your terms when they can move just as fast as you can along with everything happening at long range.  It is usually easy to predict where Imperial ships will be.  Rebel ships much less so.

Wave 2 will change that a little.

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I didn't mind my Rebel on Rebel matches during Sullust. Most of my opponents played recklessly so all I had to do was play smart and take what they gave me. I play to win, but I think even if it ends up 5-5, and I killed more than he did, I won.

Although I do recall a CR90 heavy list beating me. I never felt helpless during that match, just some better dice rolls and possible positioning errors on my part lost me that game.

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To the team: I enjoy your work and I am grateful you put this thing together.

To my never met homies Dano and Drunk Tarkin, keep on keeping on.

I too brought a 4 neb list to massing at Sullust and I have the 0-2 record to prove it.

I feel satisfied that my defense of support officers was upheld. Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but a pm seems a little hostile. But it came off well, no harm, no fowl.

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I was Tarkin's opponent for the final round.  I do remember joking about just running and 5-5 since it would have taken a 10-0 in both our game and from the 3rd place player for he and I to not end up first and second.  I did try to shoot at things but when you have everything moving speed 3 right at each other, you only really get one pass.  After that pass, I got the hell out of there since I think I was down to 2 hull points on my objective ship.

 

Two GSD-IIs with TIEs is not really the meta here.  As cool as the players were, I am not sure that either player who took such a list won a single game.  The other event that weekend had a more typical loadout of VVG, VGG, and multi-AF lists.  I also ran into that minefield nightmare.  Only one anti-ship volley was fired.  Everything else was his squadrons flying over trying to knock me out.  It was the most frustrating game I have ever played because it was guaranteed to be a 5-5, 6-4 at best because neither of us could turn to engage without losing the ship that flew through the mines.  It very nearly torpedoed my chances of doing well in the tournament.  It makes me question the wisdom of tournament point-only standings and the ability for people to bring troll lists just to crush dreams and 5-5 all three games, taking people out of tournament contention.

I like to crush dreams, but I prefer to get at least 8 points in the process. :)

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Haha I know! I addressed it earlier in the thread. In my defense I was traveling day for work and was using Fab's amazing Fleet Generator to see the ships. I had all the ships on the screen but he only shows

One retrofit on both the MC80 assault and the ISD I even though he allows 2 to be added!

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I like to crush dreams, but I prefer to get at least 8 points in the process. :)

 

So do I but the fight did not allow for it anyway.  It would have taken a few more turns to maneuver back into firing position.  Also, given the damage to my flagship it is entirely possible that I would have ended up losing the game if I did manage to make said turns.

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I like to crush dreams, but I prefer to get at least 8 points in the process. :)

 

So do I but the fight did not allow for it anyway.  It would have taken a few more turns to maneuver back into firing position.  Also, given the damage to my flagship it is entirely possible that I would have ended up losing the game if I did manage to make said turns.

Sorry that wasn't a knock against you, and your strategy made sense given the situation. I was referring to your comment about troll lists. :)

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Do players find, when using the ISD or MC80, that they're obliged to take another 25-ish points-worth of upgrades? Every time I plop an MC80 into a shop list I'm, compelled to really make it the centerpiece by throwing shieldgame cards at it and pumping up that firepower - I'll be really surprised if they're must-add units to lists, frankly. From a pure dice mass standpoint they don't feel like they add more than, say, a couple AF2.

 

Great show guys, many thanks again.  I was a bit sad to hear none of you had the fourth round duel between the ISD and MC80 lists.  We played this at my FLGS (I was a spectator, alas) and we were all blown away by the MC-80 - including the ISD, which was shredded by Ackbar's boys in a few volleys.

 

On the point about 25pts of upgrades, I think I agree with DrunkTarkin.  It feels like you need to spend those extra points to really get the best out of your already significant investment.

- ECMs to ensure you get the brace

- Gunnery teams (on the ISD) to get the most out of the front arc

- A title (Avenger is my ISD favourite, Defiance or Home One on the MC-80.  Independence sucks)

- Ion Cannons / Tractor Beams / Enhanced Armaments to taste

- Plus usually the Admiral

 

That is a ton of extra points right there, which make the large ships a real centre-piece of the battle.  Which I think is pretty awesome.

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Do players find, when using the ISD or MC80, that they're obliged to take another 25-ish points-worth of upgrades? Every time I plop an MC80 into a shop list I'm, compelled to really make it the centerpiece by throwing shieldgame cards at it and pumping up that firepower - I'll be really surprised if they're must-add units to lists, frankly. From a pure dice mass standpoint they don't feel like they add more than, say, a couple AF2.

 

Great show guys, many thanks again.  I was a bit sad to hear none of you had the fourth round duel between the ISD and MC80 lists.  We played this at my FLGS (I was a spectator, alas) and we were all blown away by the MC-80 - including the ISD, which was shredded by Ackbar's boys in a few volleys.

 

On the point about 25pts of upgrades, I think I agree with DrunkTarkin.  It feels like you need to spend those extra points to really get the best out of your already significant investment.

- ECMs to ensure you get the brace

- Gunnery teams (on the ISD) to get the most out of the front arc

- A title (Avenger is my ISD favourite, Defiance or Home One on the MC-80.  Independence sucks)

- Ion Cannons / Tractor Beams / Enhanced Armaments to taste

- Plus usually the Admiral

 

That is a ton of extra points right there, which make the large ships a real centre-piece of the battle.  Which I think is pretty awesome.

Agreed, I just can't see myself taking it naked or nearly naked. And that's OK. Makes it feel even more epic.

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Do players find, when using the ISD or MC80, that they're obliged to take another 25-ish points-worth of upgrades? Every time I plop an MC80 into a shop list I'm, compelled to really make it the centerpiece by throwing shieldgame cards at it and pumping up that firepower - I'll be really surprised if they're must-add units to lists, frankly. From a pure dice mass standpoint they don't feel like they add more than, say, a couple AF2.

 

Great show guys, many thanks again.  I was a bit sad to hear none of you had the fourth round duel between the ISD and MC80 lists.  We played this at my FLGS (I was a spectator, alas) and we were all blown away by the MC-80 - including the ISD, which was shredded by Ackbar's boys in a few volleys.

 

On the point about 25pts of upgrades, I think I agree with DrunkTarkin.  It feels like you need to spend those extra points to really get the best out of your already significant investment.

- ECMs to ensure you get the brace

- Gunnery teams (on the ISD) to get the most out of the front arc

- A title (Avenger is my ISD favourite, Defiance or Home One on the MC-80.  Independence sucks)

- Ion Cannons / Tractor Beams / Enhanced Armaments to taste

- Plus usually the Admiral

 

That is a ton of extra points right there, which make the large ships a real centre-piece of the battle.  Which I think is pretty awesome.

 

I have come across the same issue..... And I'm worried the mc30 will be the same way

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As I am digesting the upgrades from Wave 2, I think that the Empire might have gotten a bit of the shaft form this wave. Vader and Devastator seem powerful, but discarding or spending defense tokens to increase firepower doesn't really make sense.  Especially when Ackbar and Home One increase the Rebel's attack capabilities with no costs at all.  In the grand scheme of wave 2 it seems like the imperials are being forces to sacrifice ships (by discarding defense tokens) just to match the Rebel's Damage output.  And on top of it, the imperial ships received fewer defensive upgrades than the rebel ships.  I need to play it out more of course.

 

Salcor

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I know at the one game I went to that the "game 4" had the MC80 dominating the ISD.  Maybe just because of the new stuff and learning what works, but so far it sounds like the MC80 is THE ship.

Thanks,

Duncan

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Do players find, when using the ISD or MC80, that they're obliged to take another 25-ish points-worth of upgrades? Every time I plop an MC80 into a shop list I'm, compelled to really make it the centerpiece by throwing shieldgame cards at it and pumping up that firepower - I'll be really surprised if they're must-add units to lists, frankly. From a pure dice mass standpoint they don't feel like they add more than, say, a couple AF2.

 

Still listening to the episode but I will chime in on this real fast.

 

When it comes to the ISD i feel you are looking at SW-7s and Gunnery Teams as a must have.  Which is making that thing very expensive.  For the costs of this ISD you could take close to 2 GSDs.  2 GSDs gives you the same dice output (different colors but same quantities) on the front and more on the sides.  It gives you double the activations, double the fire zones activation, and double the reaction movements.  Its the same issue a lot of gargantuans and colossals have in warmachine and hordes.  For the points, you have this big center piece that looks awesome, but its not as reactive and has to be used extremely efficiently.  Also the core to wave1 pts upgrade was a 66% pt increase, while wave 1 to wave 2 will be a 33% point increase.  In core to wave 1, the ships added were less than 100pts and with wave 1 to wave 2 the big ships are more than the point differential.  Meaning I can not take my 300pt list and add ISD (not saying I should).  It feels off and the Huge ships are big point investments which means you need to get them to work.  I love going first with my 300pt build, however with big ships I think I need to underbid possibly to 390pt lists and go second.  Let them pick a scenario that rewards my ISD (contested outpost) and give my opponent a choice, come into the ISD or let me collect a massive amount of scenario tokens.  The big ships are definitely playable, i think they will take a unique train of thought and tactics to leverage them.

 

Ill post more thoughts on the episode when im done listening.

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So my humble brainstorming to prevent the runners in some games:

 

Mildly punish players for not destroying any points.  For example, a tie with minimal scoring (say under 50 points) could be scored as 4-4--this would also encourage some late aggressiveness since you'll get 4 points whether you suffer a close loss or a scoreless tie, so you might as well get aggressive toward the end to try to pick up an extra point or two.

 

There are different ways to skin this one:

Maybe go with the MOV tournament scoring, but give a minimum # of points for your scoring.  You could be capped at 3 points if you only destroy 25 or 30 points; 4 points up to say 50 or 60; and then above that you can get the full 5 even if the MOV is minimal.  Thus, if you lose 65-45 you would lose 5-4; or if you lose 45-25 you would lose 4-3 in tournament points.

 

Thus, it's actually in both players' interest to engage and try to destroy some enemy points--otherwise, they could both be stuck on 3 or 4 points.

 

But the bottom line: Don't give players the full 5 points if they don't destroy any enemy ships or squadrons.

Edited by TTC

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