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Intensify Forward Firepower Episode XII: The Fleshing at Sullust

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Link: http://iff.podbean.com/e/episode-xii-the-fleshing-at-sullust/

The Fleshing at Sullust is finally brought to you through the engineering prowess of Lobrad with a little comlink help from Drunk Tarkin, Rulesbot Dano, Steven Skyshuffler, and the enigmatic, mysterious, grey (or purple) eyed bounty hunter named Easy. The team comes together from around the Atlantic Coast to discuss the Massing at Sullust events they attended. Success varies per crew member - unless you measure success on a good time scale! Tune in to find out how the fleet engagements went and any takeaways the Intensify Forward Firepower podcast left with.

 

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Yup. This was talked about on a Netrunner podcast. "The Winning Agenda". People playing a game competitively are really playing 2 games. They are playing the game you and your opponent are playing but they are also playing the tournament.

By playing the tournament, they are aiming for points, getting everything they can to win the tournament.

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Great show guys!

Buuuut you're definitely wrong about Independence. Indy, Boosted Comms, and Raymus to throw whatever combo of Nym/Jan/B-wings/YT-1300 exactly where you want them. None of you have ever talked about running a pile of B's, so let me enlighten you on how it goes: that one turn of not attacking that you pay for the Indy movement? Without Indy, that's the last shot you'll ever get with then in that game. You average maybe one full round of shots if you play them well, normally.

Indy doubles or triples that by letting you reset your B-wing trap to strike a second time. Pair it with some Adar/Yavaris shenanigans and you have a truly ridiculous squadron setup.

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Dano should try swaping one Neb for an AF that can protect a flank. Then take Salvation on one of the other Nebs. Salvation is your real damage dealer. You can sometimes lose just because you rolled poorly on her attacks but this adds the little extra punch his list was missing.

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Yup. This was talked about on a Netrunner podcast. "The Winning Agenda". People playing a game competitively are really playing 2 games. They are playing the game you and your opponent are playing but they are also playing the tournament.

By playing the tournament, they are aiming for points, getting everything they can to win the tournament.

People can get overly competitive.  During our Sullust tournament we had 8 players and myself (tournament organizer).  One of the better miniature players at the shop was in second place going into round 2.  He lost in round 2 to the player who would eventually win the tournament.  After losing that round he dropped because "I'd need to table my next opponent, to have any chance of finishing second."  I later learned that after he dropped he went to the store owner and sold back all of his Armada stuff saying he was "through with the game." :huh:

 

He is an anomaly though.  We had 2 whose schedules would not allow them to play but they still paid the entry fee just to get the card.  Now we are working on a league and, even after the dropout, it sounds like we may be up to 10 or more players.

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immediately after finishing up recording, I remembered that! I knew I had seen it but I looked at Fab's Fleet Generator quickly. His fleet builder doesn't show the double upgrade, though it does allow you to take two. 

 

@Edsel- that guy sounds like a really sore loser. That's some poor sportsmanship right there!

 

@Ardae- Yeah I totally get the WHY of Independence, and can see its use. I'm just not convinced it's going to be the bee's knees in all but ideal situations!

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I was the Ferrari guy at battlegrounds Stephen. I think between me and you there were 3 5-5 games, I got a 5-5 loss with MOV of 5, then another against Shaun 5-5 loss with MOV of 6. But it mostly came down to flying nebs which meant I chose a single kill then tried to fly away as best as possible.

Hopefully with wave 2 there won't be so many drastic situations like yours. Alot of wave 1 rebels that weren't 3 asf just don't have the number of dice required to win in a straight duel against 3 asf with EP. In other words, wave 1 needed more teeth.

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Seeing a couple responses here I just want to make sure everybody knows that all my opponents were great players and I have no beef whatsoever! I think I said that on the show, but just to make sure. Completely positive, great event.

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Seeing a couple responses here I just want to make sure everybody knows that all my opponents were great players and I have no beef whatsoever! I think I said that on the show, but just to make sure. Completely positive, great event.

 

You did make that clear...no worries.

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Can't wait to listen- love the show.  I was fortunate enough to win my local Sullust event and come home with an MC80.  I love it!  The thing has shields for days, and with Ackbar I am chucking enough dice to burn just about anything down.  I've played 3 games since Sullust, and my MC80 has won me all 3, killing an ISD each game.  It's not unbeatable or anything, but I have definitely found that it is a force to be reckoned with!

Edited by rmb43

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I was Tarkin's opponent for the final round.  I do remember joking about just running and 5-5 since it would have taken a 10-0 in both our game and from the 3rd place player for he and I to not end up first and second.  I did try to shoot at things but when you have everything moving speed 3 right at each other, you only really get one pass.  After that pass, I got the hell out of there since I think I was down to 2 hull points on my objective ship.

 

Two GSD-IIs with TIEs is not really the meta here.  As cool as the players were, I am not sure that either player who took such a list won a single game.  The other event that weekend had a more typical loadout of VVG, VGG, and multi-AF lists.  I also ran into that minefield nightmare.  Only one anti-ship volley was fired.  Everything else was his squadrons flying over trying to knock me out.  It was the most frustrating game I have ever played because it was guaranteed to be a 5-5, 6-4 at best because neither of us could turn to engage without losing the ship that flew through the mines.  It very nearly torpedoed my chances of doing well in the tournament.  It makes me question the wisdom of tournament point-only standings and the ability for people to bring troll lists just to crush dreams and 5-5 all three games, taking people out of tournament contention.

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Do players find, when using the ISD or MC80, that they're obliged to take another 25-ish points-worth of upgrades? Every time I plop an MC80 into a shop list I'm, compelled to really make it the centerpiece by throwing shieldgame cards at it and pumping up that firepower - I'll be really surprised if they're must-add units to lists, frankly. From a pure dice mass standpoint they don't feel like they add more than, say, a couple AF2.

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I was Tarkin's opponent for the final round.  I do remember joking about just running and 5-5 since it would have taken a 10-0 in both our game and from the 3rd place player for he and I to not end up first and second.  I did try to shoot at things but when you have everything moving speed 3 right at each other, you only really get one pass.  After that pass, I got the hell out of there since I think I was down to 2 hull points on my objective ship.

 

Two GSD-IIs with TIEs is not really the meta here.  As cool as the players were, I am not sure that either player who took such a list won a single game.  The other event that weekend had a more typical loadout of VVG, VGG, and multi-AF lists.  I also ran into that minefield nightmare.  Only one anti-ship volley was fired.  Everything else was his squadrons flying over trying to knock me out.  It was the most frustrating game I have ever played because it was guaranteed to be a 5-5, 6-4 at best because neither of us could turn to engage without losing the ship that flew through the mines.  It very nearly torpedoed my chances of doing well in the tournament.  It makes me question the wisdom of tournament point-only standings and the ability for people to bring troll lists just to crush dreams and 5-5 all three games, taking people out of tournament contention.

 

Really good post from a really talented opponent!

 

I get on the soapbox during ep 12 for all the reasons BlakLanner illustrated. I never want to be in the position he and I were again in a tournament game. It might cost me heavily to throw ships in front of a speeding "flanker" or "broadside" type ship but the idea of embracing it like I did at Sullust and playing the rest of my Armada games in a circling toilet bowl vortex of broadsiding cap ships is a no-go for me.

 

I'm reluctant to suggest any sort of tournament scoring change because, as someone else already mentioned, it is the game within the game; and any changes end up reverberating in different ways. There has to be some metric other than just winning the game to break ties. Kills is just as good as any other.

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On the occasions that I take my ISD or MC80, I certainly feel the need to add upgrades.  MC80s almost require Engine Techs to have any maneuverability.  I also like AP and ECM on them just to they can survive long enough to bring their weapons to bear.  XI7s or Heavy Turbolasers all allow them to force through damage that would otherwise just get removed with a defensive token.  I put fewer upgrades on ISDs but I tend to give them Hangar Bays and then just a few upgrades to, again, force through damage from that massive front arc.

 

In all honesty I don't think the MC80 is necessary.  Ackbar tends to favor multiple smaller ships and AFs and MC30s are still very combat capable.  I think ISDs are more necessary as VSDs have a tendency to get outflanked and have their massive front arc rendered useless.  Only half my theorycraft lists use MC80s.  Nearly all of my Imperial lists take a single ISD now.

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