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Enemy Beyond Expansion

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I've finished reading Enemies Beyond today and I have a weird question: is it me, or is a page missing from the book?

 

I mean, look at the section about Nurgle in Chapter III. There's a brief introduction, you turn a page... and you immediately get into a description of Beasts of Nurgle. No plot hooks, like in the section about other three Chaos Gods... Huh?

 

BTW. Question about daemons: so, each daemon is supposed to be a unique being? Meaning, those Daemonettes aren't really interchangeable. Each of them has a name, could be a subject of some vile book etc. Even though they are probably millions of them in the Warp and they all look similar, each of them should be RPed as an individual, not a faceless minion?

Edited by Varsovian

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BTW. Question about daemons: so, each daemon is supposed to be a unique being? Meaning, those Daemonettes aren't really interchangeable. Each of them has a name, could be a subject of some vile book etc. Even though they are probably millions of them in the Warp and they all look similar, each of them should be RPed as an individual, not a faceless minion?

Sure, but it won't really happen. One mook is always an individual, but that individuality gets lost the more of them you have on screen. This happens with Space Marines too, and could even be said to happen with Inquisitors if you somehow have dozens of them in a scene.

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I've finished reading Enemies Beyond today and I have a weird question: is it me, or is a page missing from the book?

 

I mean, look at the section about Nurgle in Chapter III. There's a brief introduction, you turn a page... and you immediately get into a description of Beasts of Nurgle. No plot hooks, like in the section about other three Chaos Gods... Huh?

 

 

 

Yeah I noticed that myself. I would have thought it might have meant they were disinterested in Nurgle, much like in the Black Crusade series where he seems to get less attention than the others but the earlier DH2 books do actually have a lot of interesting stuff on his cults and he seems to be a major player of the big 4 in the Askellon Sector.

 

Who knows maybe they just figured they had done covered Nurgle enough in this series  :huh:

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What are the new power weapons again? I read that there's a new Power Glaive and thunderhammers. Are they the same from previous games, ie, rogue trader and deathwatch or are the stats different? I really like the idea of my go to melee weapon being a big glaive or a giant lightning encased power hammer. 

 

Thanks guys!

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The thunder hammer is definitely different, as it now has that property from power fists that doubles your Strength bonus to melee damage. (Most of the hammers in Enemies Beyond have this, and it's pretty much bonkers.) The power glaive is also different, but then again Enemies Beyond is the first 40K RPG text that presents an explicit way for players to get access. (Before it only existed in two NPC statblocks.) In addition to those, EB has a power shield for defending and the Ebenus hammer to combat daemons. Several of the force weapons are actually technically power weapons as well, and were meant to complement the Ebenus. But unlike them the Ebenus is designed also to combat psykers, and thus functions as a null rod.

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The thunder hammer is definitely different, as it now has that property from power fists that doubles your Strength bonus to melee damage. (Most of the hammers in Enemies Beyond have this, and it's pretty much bonkers.) The power glaive is also different, but then again Enemies Beyond is the first 40K RPG text that presents an explicit way for players to get access. (Before it only existed in two NPC statblocks.) In addition to those, EB has a power shield for defending and the Ebenus hammer to combat daemons. Several of the force weapons are actually technically power weapons as well, and were meant to complement the Ebenus. But unlike them the Ebenus is designed also to combat psykers, and thus functions as a null rod.

Well hot **** that sounds awesome! My copy should come in tomorrow morning actually. So I can actually wield a giant lightning hammer and hit hard. Im pretty glad. Thanks NFK.

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Quick question, where is the Astropath's ability to communicate interstellar? I couldn't find it anywhere... Astral Telepathy is a limited ranged power ( PRx1000 km ) 

Guessing that power doesn't have any crunch; its probably best to deal with it via narrative means. Interstellar communication usually requires a choir of them anyway.

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Quick question, where is the Astropath's ability to communicate interstellar? I couldn't find it anywhere... Astral Telepathy is a limited ranged power ( PRx1000 km )

Guessing that power doesn't have any crunch; its probably best to deal with it via narrative means. Interstellar communication usually requires a choir of them anyway.

Not true! A single astropath is quite capable of interstellar comms. His range is governed by his psy rating. This is also why they tend to use choirs. Several astropaths can join their psy ratings together to empower their transmissions.

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True, and the extra rules from Navis did little but add silliness to the entire affair. "Lets have Astropaths vomiting maggots when they send messages and then have them float in the air and break their backs while sending as well, that'll be funny!"

 

Still doesn't answer the question as to why every single Slaanesh Daemon has Dodge, but not the Greater. Or why it has Assassin Strike without the Acrobatics Skill to use it... I'm really getting tired of FFG and their half-baked approach to writing these days.

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Won't argue that sckoni the lack of dodge is weird.

As far as astral telepathy goes, it's a pretty naff power. 9.461e+12 Kilometers would be needed for just one light year. I'll have to take a look at that power again.

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Is anyone else disappointed by the Sanctic Daemonology psychic power tree?

I mean, some of the powers there are powerful and useful (namely Hammerhand, Holocaust, Cleansing Flame and Sanctuary), but the rest of them are just outright pitiful! Banish sounds way more powerful in its fluff than it does in its crunch -- It's supposed to "hurl daemons back into the warp", when in reality it just makes a daemon take a WP test, and take 1 damage for each degree of failure. Sure, it ignores toughness and armor, but daemons tend to have over 20 hitpoints anyway so it barely makes a difference. Though, I suppose the attack also has a chance of triggering Warp Instability damage, as well. And even still, the daemon taking any damage at all is extremely unlikely, because most daemons have a base WP of at least 50. And this is a tier 3 psychic power that requires a -20 WP test just to use. I'm seeing a power that is hard to use, hard to get, and has pathetically little payoff!

And some of the other abilities are essentially the same thing -- stuff that requires daemons to take WP tests or be slightly inconvenienced.

Am I alone in thinking this psychic ability tree is pathetically underpowered? Perhaps it's more powerful in practice?





 

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-For every DoS the psyker gets, the daemon receives a -5 penalty to their test.

-"Most daemons" do not in fact have WP 50+. Most if not all Master daemons (as in Troop vs. Elite vs. Master) do, but then again they're boss-level enemies. Out of all the non-Master daemons in DH2E, only two Slaaneshi daemons (both Elite still) have WP 50+.

-Psychic Rating 3 is not terribly harsh as a requirement for a mid-tier power.

 

Not every power can be Holocaust, after all - several of the starting powers are relatively limited but also relatively cheap. (Compare this to the Pyromancy tree, after all.) The idea when taking a tree is generally that you're taking things from it as the narrative progresses and as your characters grow, such that the starting powers are at the least appropriate to the initial phase of the campaign. By the time you've outgrown them (if you do - Psychic Communion is a party buff and Word of the Emperor exists to support a psyker who's using a force weapon or other arms), you've had enough character progression that you can take stuff like Inferno or Holocaust. In particular Holocaust is the one power that deals damage in dice that scale with your PR; I've not seen its like since Bolt of Tzeentch.

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Pretty much all Tzeentch, Slaaneshi, and Nurgle lesser daemons I looked at (save for the more bestial ones like Beasts of Nurgle, Flamers of Tzeentch, or Fiends of Slaanesh) have 50+. Khornate daemons have the weakest WP, but that's because their strength lies in brute force.

I mean, I can accept that not all powers can be Holocaust, but at the same time, I expect a power that is about as difficult to get as, say, Spontaneous Combustion, to be just as useful.

I mean, it's specifically a combat oriented ability. And how many degrees of success can a psyker manage when we're looking at a -20 focus power test? Then again, maybe I'm being shortsighted here. If you're gonna make an anti-Daemon psyker, you're going to max his WP as much as you possibly can.

I guess I can see use of other psychic powers in group support, and Excorcism is pretty good for, well, excorcisms (does PR willpower damage to a daemon, which can give an edge in the multiple opposed WP tests Excorcism involves).


 

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Pretty much all Tzeentch, Slaaneshi, and Nurgle lesser daemons I looked at (save for the more bestial ones like Beasts of Nurgle, Flamers of Tzeentch, or Fiends of Slaanesh) have 50+. Khornate daemons have the weakest WP, but that's because their strength lies in brute force.

I mean, I can accept that not all powers can be Holocaust, but at the same time, I expect a power that is about as difficult to get as, say, Spontaneous Combustion, to be just as useful.

I mean, it's specifically a combat oriented ability. And how many degrees of success can a psyker manage when we're looking at a -20 focus power test? Then again, maybe I'm being shortsighted here. If you're gonna make an anti-Daemon psyker, you're going to max his WP as much as you possibly can.

I guess I can see use of other psychic powers in group support, and Excorcism is pretty good for, well, excorcisms (does PR willpower damage to a daemon, which can give an edge in the multiple opposed WP tests Excorcism involves).

 

Don't forget that the psyker gets +10 for every psy rating level they cast below their actual psy rating, since only the range is affected by the psy rating it's cast at you will always cast at the lowest level possible for the biggest bonus (just like foreboding). Even at psy rating 3 you can get +20 from casting at psy rating 1 and another +10 from psy focus. Considering how much soak daemons can have I don't think the power is bad. Against lesser daemons blasting away with pyromancy might be better but as you go up to daemons with more soak it might be more appealing.

A psyker about to join my group is psy rating 7, if he had this power and cast at psy rating 1 he would only fail the test on a 100

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Pretty much all Tzeentch, Slaaneshi, and Nurgle lesser daemons I looked at (save for the more bestial ones like Beasts of Nurgle, Flamers of Tzeentch, or Fiends of Slaanesh) have 50+. Khornate daemons have the weakest WP, but that's because their strength lies in brute force.

I generally agree with Skarsnik38, but I did want to come back to this point. Like I said, nearly every daemon with WP 50+ is also a Master-level enemy. (The Plaguebearer and Chaos Fury are in core, while everything else is in EB.)

  • Plaguebearer (Elite), WP 49.
  • Chaos Fury (Elite), WP 46.
  • Bloodletter (Elite), WP 34.
  • Herald of Khorne (Master), WP 34.
  • Flesh Hound (Troop), WP 40.
  • Juggernaut (Elite), WP 40.
  • Bloodthirster (Master), WP 75.
  • Horror of Tzeentch (Elite), WP 36.
  • Herald of Tzeentch (Master), WP 51.
  • Flamer of Tzeentch (Elite), WP 40.
  • Screamer of Tzeentch (Troop), WP 40.
  • Beast of Nurgle (Elite), WP 34.
  • Plague Drone (Elite), WP 49.
  • Herald of Nurgle (Master), WP 61.
  • Great Unclean One (Master), WP 71.
  • Daemonette (Elite), WP 51.
  • Herald of Slaanesh (Master), WP 61.
  • Seeker of Slaanesh (Elite), WP 54.
  • Fiend of Slaanesh (Elite), WP 33.
  • Keeper of Secrets (Master), WP 75.

Oddly enough several daemons don't have Warp Instability for whatever reason, and thus are not targets for Banish. Exorcism instead targets things with Daemonic, so I wonder why there's a difference. (All of these follow the "Masters and only Masters have WP 50+" rule.) But to be fair most of these are Master-level enemies anyway.

  • Nurgling (Troop).
  • Herald Putricifex (Master).
  • Daemonhost Suvfaeras (Master).
  • Daemon Prince Suvfaeras (Master).
  • Warpwhisp (Troop).
  • Herald Sss'Elgiagin (Master).
  • Ch'phor'tca (Master).
  • Lord of Wrath (Master).
  • Lord of Change (Master).
  • "Generic" Daemon Prince (Master).

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