Tractor Beam questions

[Smuggler 556]

I've used the tracktor on my MC80 to keep that darn fast ISD from gaining on me to fast. Has worked out well in all of the two games I've played with it so far

[DiabloAzul 2,636]

As per the new v2 FAQ, the following is correct:

It says you must spend the token so it has to go. If you can't you lose your speed

 
 
And the following is wrong:

It's pretty clear that the ship owner has a choice. There are two possible outcomes (either a token gets spent/discarded or the target ship slows down), and no indication whatsoever that one takes precedence over the other. It doesn't say "That ship must spend a [Navigate] token. If it does not have a [Navigate] token, its speed is reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1" (i.e. the wording found, for example, on the Ion Cannon Batteries card).

[DerErlkoenig 975]

And the following is wrong:

It's pretty clear that the ship owner has a choice. There are two possible outcomes (either a token gets spent/discarded or the target ship slows down), and no indication whatsoever that one takes precedence over the other. It doesn't say "That ship must spend a [Navigate] token. If it does not have a [Navigate] token, its speed is reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1" (i.e. the wording found, for example, on the Ion Cannon Batteries card).

That DA is such a tool. He's basically wrong about everything!

[/trollFace]

Seriously though, I didn't expect that outcome, but I like it. I feel like this makes just one Tractor beam less terrible.

[DiabloAzul 2,636]

I agree that it's a more interesting effect, especially considering how it interacts with Yularen, Engine Techs, the Liaisons, etc. But if that's the intent, it's also very poorly worded.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Hmmmm I guess they could have changed the wording and left out the must if they wanted it to be an option. Hmmmm

[DiabloAzul 2,636]

Or they could have used the exact same wording as Ion Cannon Batteries, which gets it right.

[Madaghmire 7,276]

Its just a really poorly worded card.

[Reiryc 619]

Shame you cant bring ships to a standstill, now that would be great! Maybe too great!

 

I think that would be too overpowered.

 

You'd want to pack tractor beams on to all your ships, causing enemy ships to stop, thus eliminating use of their defense tokens.  If that ship was a 3 command dial ship, it could be stuck for a couple rounds.  While yes, there are counters that one could buy, the ship building would revolve on including and defending against tractor beams (imo).

[Zyge 6]

With a tournament coming up, has anyone come up against this?

Demolisher is caught by a Tractor Beam, it has Wulf Yularen onboard. He spends the token to negate the Tractor Beam effect, exhaust Yularen to get the token back and he is fundamentally unaffected, able to use the token again and (usually with Engine Techs) cause the usual havoc during his activation.

The "spend" and "discard" wording in this instance is important.

[Drasnighta 26,832]

I would have no issue with that.

Phylom Q7s say you must spend.

Wulff may be exhausted when you Spend.

 

There is no "in your turn" listing.

[Tvayumat 3,637]

I would have no issue with that.

Phylom Q7s say you must spend.

Wulff may be exhausted when you Spend.

 

There is no "in your turn" listing.

Makes sense.

Wulff still gets exhausted, so if you use the token later you can't refresh it.

[Zyge 6]

Of course, if say an ISD-II gets Demolisher with a Tractor Beam, Wulff Would be exhausted until the "Status Phase", high does leave the Demolisher player with a decision to use it or not. I would still like further clarification from FFG in the next Rules Eratta on the "discard" or "spend" wording in this instance.

[Drasnighta 26,832]

I don't think Clarification is needed.  Wording on Spend Vs. Discard, is very specific.

 

You spend it.

Wulff can Trigger when you spend it.

 

 

Add to the fact that if you have a Nav Token, you must spend it if hit by a Tractor Beam, as per the newest FAQ...

 

It means Tractor Beams are going to be Bad Juju for Demolisher, just how bad depends on wether its activated or not beforehand...

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I don't think Clarification is needed.  Wording on Spend Vs. Discard, is very specific.

 

You spend it.

Wulff can Trigger when you spend it.

 

 

Add to the fact that if you have a Nav Token, you must spend it if hit by a Tractor Beam, as per the newest FAQ...

 

It means Tractor Beams are going to be Bad Juju for Demolisher, just how bad depends on wether its activated or not beforehand...

I am in agreement with this. 

 

This is how I have been playing tractor beams. They are great en-mass but not spectacular. 

[Spellbound 27]

A tractor beam was the difference between a spectacular victory and a crushing loss for me, the other day.  Had I taken the nav token off Home One, he wouldn't have been able to use it to go up to speed 2 AND trigger engine techs that took him out of my ISD's front arc.  He was very near death, but not enough so that only my side arc could finish him off.  I just forgot to use it.

[Zyge 6]

I don't think Clarification is needed.  Wording on Spend Vs. Discard, is very specific.

 

You spend it.

Wulff can Trigger when you spend it.

 

 

Add to the fact that if you have a Nav Token, you must spend it if hit by a Tractor Beam, as per the newest FAQ...

 

It means Tractor Beams are going to be Bad Juju for Demolisher, just how bad depends on wether its activated or not beforehand...

 

I have to point out that the new Rules on p.7 states this:

 

Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams: A ship affected by this ability must discard a navigate token if it has one. Otherwise, it reduces it's speed.

 

So Wulff, unfortunately, cannot reclaim the token as it is not spent.

[DerErlkoenig 975]

I don't think Clarification is needed.  Wording on Spend Vs. Discard, is very specific.

 

You spend it.

Wulff can Trigger when you spend it.

 

 

Add to the fact that if you have a Nav Token, you must spend it if hit by a Tractor Beam, as per the newest FAQ...

 

It means Tractor Beams are going to be Bad Juju for Demolisher, just how bad depends on wether its activated or not beforehand...

 

I have to point out that the new Rules on p.7 states this:

 

Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams: A ship affected by this ability must discard a navigate token if it has one. Otherwise, it reduces it's speed.

 

So Wulff, unfortunately, cannot reclaim the token as it is not spent.

The card says spend, does it not? Spending command tokens involves discarding them.

I think the FAQ clarification was specifically in reference to whether or not the defender has the option of spending Nav token.

[Zyge 6]

 

 

I don't think Clarification is needed.  Wording on Spend Vs. Discard, is very specific.

 

You spend it.

Wulff can Trigger when you spend it.

 

 

Add to the fact that if you have a Nav Token, you must spend it if hit by a Tractor Beam, as per the newest FAQ...

 

It means Tractor Beams are going to be Bad Juju for Demolisher, just how bad depends on wether its activated or not beforehand...

 

I have to point out that the new Rules on p.7 states this:

 

Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams: A ship affected by this ability must discard a navigate token if it has one. Otherwise, it reduces it's speed.

 

So Wulff, unfortunately, cannot reclaim the token as it is not spent.

The card says spend, does it not? Spending command tokens involves discarding them.

I think the FAQ clarification was specifically in reference to whether or not the defender has the option of spending Nav token.

 

My point is that spending or discarding are different actions, you can either spend a token, discard a card or discard a token as the result of the effect of a card. Spending tokens are easy (such as the various Liaison cards), discarding cards are easy (such as Support Officer, Veteran Captain)

 

But some cards allow you to discard a token such as Ion Cannon batteries and Life Support Failure (Discard all of your command tokens).

 

So you do not spend then discard, you spend or discard.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I don't think Clarification is needed.  Wording on Spend Vs. Discard, is very specific.

 

You spend it.

Wulff can Trigger when you spend it.

 

 

Add to the fact that if you have a Nav Token, you must spend it if hit by a Tractor Beam, as per the newest FAQ...

 

It means Tractor Beams are going to be Bad Juju for Demolisher, just how bad depends on wether its activated or not beforehand...

 

I have to point out that the new Rules on p.7 states this:

 

Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams: A ship affected by this ability must discard a navigate token if it has one. Otherwise, it reduces it's speed.

 

So Wulff, unfortunately, cannot reclaim the token as it is not spent.

The card says spend, does it not? Spending command tokens involves discarding them.

I think the FAQ clarification was specifically in reference to whether or not the defender has the option of spending Nav token.

You know, as much as I like the fact that we agree. . . It is kind of creepy.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I don't think Clarification is needed.  Wording on Spend Vs. Discard, is very specific.

 

You spend it.

Wulff can Trigger when you spend it.

 

 

Add to the fact that if you have a Nav Token, you must spend it if hit by a Tractor Beam, as per the newest FAQ...

 

It means Tractor Beams are going to be Bad Juju for Demolisher, just how bad depends on wether its activated or not beforehand...

 

I have to point out that the new Rules on p.7 states this:

 

Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams: A ship affected by this ability must discard a navigate token if it has one. Otherwise, it reduces it's speed.

 

So Wulff, unfortunately, cannot reclaim the token as it is not spent.

The card says spend, does it not? Spending command tokens involves discarding them.

I think the FAQ clarification was specifically in reference to whether or not the defender has the option of spending Nav token.

My point is that spending or discarding are different actions, you can either spend a token, discard a card or discard a token as the result of the effect of a card. Spending tokens are easy (such as the various Liaison cards), discarding cards are easy (such as Support Officer, Veteran Captain)

 

But some cards allow you to discard a token such as Ion Cannon batteries and Life Support Failure (Discard all of your command tokens).

 

So you do not spend then discard, you spend or discard.

When you spend an exhausted Defense token you discard it.

When you spend a Command Token you discard it.

Discarding is the act of removing.

Add to the fact that the FAQ for tractor beams is in the FAQ portion and not the errata, which which means it is a rules clarification and not a change to words on the card and it is still you spending the token.

[Drasnighta 26,832]

Indeed.

The fact that the clarification was in the FAQ portion, means it is an explanation, and not a Rules Modification or Wording Change.

 

The Wording of the Card has not changed (at this time).

 

 

 

 

Unlike, for example, Imperial Assault, which has had their "worst offender" cards modified with Errata after the last Tournament Season.  So far, nothing that breaking has been identified by FFG for Armada.

[Zyge 6]

So in summary, the wording of the Phylon Q7 Tractor beam in the "Card Clarification" section of the updated rules should say "spend the token" (like it does on the original card) rather than "discard the token".

 

In my eyes you can:

 

Spend a token, then discard the token

Discard a card to use it's ability

Discard a token as the result of the Ion Cannon Batteries/Life Support Failure without benefitting from it's effects, fundamentally skipping the "spend" stage

[Lyraeus 4,759]

So in summary, the wording of the Phylon Q7 Tractor beam in the "Card Clarification" section of the updated rules should say "spend the token" (like it does on the original card) rather than "discard the token".

 

In my eyes you can:

 

Spend a token, then discard the token

Discard a card to use it's ability

Discard a token as the result of the Ion Cannon Batteries/Life Support Failure without benefitting from it's effects, fundamentally skipping the "spend" stage

Then you likely need to change your conception if you want things to be easier

[Zyge 6]

 

So in summary, the wording of the Phylon Q7 Tractor beam in the "Card Clarification" section of the updated rules should say "spend the token" (like it does on the original card) rather than "discard the token".

 

In my eyes you can:

 

Spend a token, then discard the token

Discard a card to use it's ability

Discard a token as the result of the Ion Cannon Batteries/Life Support Failure without benefitting from it's effects, fundamentally skipping the "spend" stage

Then you likely need to change your conception if you want things to be easier

 

As I know I will face my friend playing Demolisher with Wulff in the Winter Tournament with me fielding Tractor Beams, I will take the wording on the card with the "spend" text and let him know he will have to spend his Navigate Token it as per the Rules Clarification, if he has it. Then Wulff it back.

 

Best things would to destroy the **** thing ASAP and that will be that! Ha ha.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

So in summary, the wording of the Phylon Q7 Tractor beam in the "Card Clarification" section of the updated rules should say "spend the token" (like it does on the original card) rather than "discard the token".

In my eyes you can:

Spend a token, then discard the token

Discard a card to use it's ability

Discard a token as the result of the Ion Cannon Batteries/Life Support Failure without benefitting from it's effects, fundamentally skipping the "spend" stage

Then you likely need to change your conception if you want things to be easier

As I know I will face my friend playing Demolisher with Wulff in the Winter Tournament with me fielding Tractor Beams, I will take the wording on the card with the "spend" text and let him know he will have to spend his Navigate Token it as per the Rules Clarification, if he has it. Then Wulff it back.

Best things would to destroy the **** thing ASAP and that will be that! Ha ha.

Or use 2 tractor beams, or do it after he Wullf's Edited December 27, 2015 by Lyraeus