Tractor Beam questions

[Artifixprime 197]

Used these in a game last night and found them to be quite handy indeed.

 

Some small points came up:

Can you hit the same ship more than once with a tractor beam:

(a) from two different ships in the same turn - slowing it down by two speed steps (to a min of speed 1)

(b) from the same ship in two consecutive turns

 

We thought "yes" to both.

 

Also, is there any practical difference to when a navigate token is used to cancel the effect?

Either you use it immediately to cancel the drop in speed, or use it the following turn to increase your speed again.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Yes. The card is exhausted on the ship that is using it and that refreshes in the status phase which is right after the squadron phase.

You can target the same ship multiple times over the course of 6 turns. You can be targeted by several ships in the same turn.

It says you must spend the token so it has to go. If you can't you lose your speed

[Artifixprime 197]

Yep, this is what we thought too.

A few of these in a fleet could be *massively* disruptive to the opposing fleet as you need to keep a token handy to negate the effects or run the risk of seeing your strategy getting ruined.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

You can stop gunline's easily enough.

[kami689 156]

It says you must spend the token so it has to go. If you can't you lose your speed

 

They don't have to spend the token. They must spend token OR reduce speed by 1 (to min of 1), but it is their choice on what to do

[Snipafist 7,541]

The problem is the wording is unclear. The word "must" is either applied to the first section (spend the navigation token), meaning that the token spending is mandatory, and then the "or" would refer to what happens if the condition cannot be met. Alternatively, "must" could be applied to the entire section, meaning that the opposing player must choose one of two possible outcomes.

 

I feel as though the former is the more likely, but I can't prove that to be true. I would be surprised if this isn't FAQed at some point.

[kami689 156]

The problem is the wording is unclear. The word "must" is either applied to the first section (spend the navigation token), meaning that the token spending is mandatory, and then the "or" would refer to what happens if the condition cannot be met. Alternatively, "must" could be applied to the entire section, meaning that the opposing player must choose one of two possible outcomes.

 

I feel as though the former is the more likely, but I can't prove that to be true. I would be surprised if this isn't FAQed at some point.

 

Tractor beams is they have to choose one of the effects, the "must" means they have to choose one or the other.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

The problem is the wording is unclear. The word "must" is either applied to the first section (spend the navigation token), meaning that the token spending is mandatory, and then the "or" would refer to what happens if the condition cannot be met. Alternatively, "must" could be applied to the entire section, meaning that the opposing player must choose one of two possible outcomes.

 

I feel as though the former is the more likely, but I can't prove that to be true. I would be surprised if this isn't FAQed at some point.

That is what I am thinking.

If they are required to use the token then Tractor Beams are strong get than originally thought.

There is no wording on "must" in the RRG so it is an interesting concept.

Honestly I it can go either way. Let's see if this turns into another AP and XI7's debate

[thanosazlin 52]

When you choose the enemy ship that enemy ship either immediately uses their maneuver token to increase or decrease their speed OR if they don't have one or choose NOT to use a manuver command token then they must reduce their speed by 1.

But what if the ship has Nav team? Nav team would not take effect in my opinion as you are moving during any manuver phase

[Lyraeus 4,759]

When you choose the enemy ship that enemy ship either immediately uses their maneuver token to increase or decrease their speed OR if they don't have one or choose NOT to use a manuver command token then they must reduce their speed by 1.

But what if the ship has Nav team? Nav team would not take effect in my opinion as you are moving during any manuver phase

Except that Navigate commands can only be used during that ships Determine Course step.

[DiabloAzul 2,636]

When you choose the enemy ship that enemy ship either immediately uses their maneuver token to increase or decrease their speed OR if they don't have one or choose NOT to use a manuver command token then they must reduce their speed by 1.

But what if the ship has Nav team? Nav team would not take effect in my opinion as you are moving during any manuver phase

 

I'm fairly convinced the Tractor Beam card makes the defender spend a token as a cost for not losing 1 speed. If so, the following bullet point becomes relevant:

 

"If a dial, token, die, or other component is spent as part of a card effect’s cost, that component does not also produce its normal effect." (RRG p.5)

 

So you don't get to resolve the Navigate command (or therefore trigger Nav Team or Engine Techs). You just discard the token with no effect, other than keeping your speed.

 

It's weirdly worded though, that's for sure.

[thanosazlin 52]

good point DiabloAzul , poor wording on the card i say. it should then say "discard" token , not spend.  because if you take a defense token that is red and spend it or use it , then it is "discarded" and removed from play. the wording of tractor beam makes you think you can spend it some how. so in essence , FFG is saying you must spend/discard your maneuver token (if you happend to have one) in defense of not having your speed reduced by 1. that  makes sense i get it now, but this should be in the FAQ IMO whenever it's updated for wave 2 stuff. i can see several people at the local shop i play at argue this one.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

It's a command token though. . . There is nothing in the game that "discards" command tokens. . .

[Drasnighta 26,832]

Critical Effects do.


Life Support Failure x2 - Crew - Discard all command tokens, you may not have any command tokens

Edited October 10, 2015 by Drasnighta

[Tvayumat 3,637]

It's a command token though. . . There is nothing in the game that "discards" command tokens. . .

Ion Cannon Batteries:  Choose and discard 1 command token from the defender.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Ah the only one then. They are not part of a cost though. . . You discard defense tokens as a cost though. . . Hmmmmm

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Critical Effects do.Life Support Failure x2 - Crew - Discard all command tokens, you may not have any command tokens

Yup, wrong twice over.

Guess I should not deal in absolutes. Guess it's the rebels for me

[Daft Blazer 291]

The only thing you can do is discard a token, if you have one, since your ship hasn't actually activated.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

What if I target a ship that has activated this turn? If I am first player I can do that to cause a ship to drop several speed levels

[DiabloAzul 2,636]

Be careful, "discard" and "spend" aren't the same thing. Discarding a token produces no effect, while spending it does unless its part of the cost of using a card.

 

Which is why I find Tractor Beams so strangely worded. I'd have expect the card to read "That ship must discard a [Navigate] token or..."

 

That aside, it's pretty clear that the ship owner has a choice. There are two possible outcomes (either a token gets spent/discarded or the target ship slows down), and no indication whatsoever that one takes precedence over the other. It doesn't say "That ship must spend a [Navigate] token. If it does not have a [Navigate] token, its speed is reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1" (i.e. the wording found, for example, on the Ion Cannon Batteries card).

Edited October 11, 2015 by DiabloAzul

[Corver 231]

Shame you cant bring ships to a standstill, now that would be great! Maybe too great!

[oddeye 560]

Shame you cant bring ships to a standstill, now that would be great! Maybe too great!

Yeah that would be over powered.. i know im going to try them out as soon as i get em. Im thinking they will really help out the imperials hone in on those slippery rebel scum...

[Tvayumat 3,637]

I've played two games now with a pocket medic Gladiator running Projection Experts supporting two VSD-Is with tractor beams.

So far... I just don't know if they're worth the points. To be fair I haven't really wound up in a great circumstance to use them yet. More often than not, I forget that I have them and totally forget to use them.

ONCE they were helpful, doubling up tractor beams on a speed 3 whale to bring it to a standstill where I could pelt it with a desperately turning VSD's side arc for the last bit of damage I needed.

Really though, that's exactly what I was hoping it'd let me do, is land that last bit of damage on a quick ship trying to flee the aftermath of an engagement.

[oddeye 560]

Hmm i was hoping to hear better things about them. I mean, that is what i wanted to hear i guess, kept him in your arcs.

Director isaard might work well with the beams. You can reveal all the commands to see if they took navs. Keep you informed as you slow down their fleet.

[Tvayumat 3,637]

Hmm i was hoping to hear better things about them. I mean, that is what i wanted to hear i guess, kept him in your arcs.

Director isaard might work well with the beams. You can reveal all the commands to see if they took navs. Keep you informed as you slow down their fleet.

This is an interesting idea, but I wonder if it's worth it vs simply stacking multiple tractors on the ship you want slowed.

I'm not dissuaded from the tractor beam just yet. My tractor list has beaten the an Ackbar MC80 list twice, so it can't be all bad.

Oh, and one thing I liked a lot: Tractor beams can make a mostly passive TIE bomber swarm dangerous without Rhymer by ensuring a ship simply can't go above speed 1. Potentially devastating to assault frigates.