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DariusAPB

Hypothetical: If the Defender had boost.

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Tie/D X7 MKII

Title, Tie Defender only

"When attacking with your primary weapon, if your attack hits the defender is assigned an ion token."

0 points

 

This would kind of integrate an ion cannon, but without the range 3 secondary weapon effect. Leaving the cannon slot for a tractor beam.

 

Would this be sufficient? Yes, no boost in this approach...

 

As I was reading through this topic, my brain-wave was that since it is thought to be over costed by 3-ish points, I was going to suggest just giving it a free Ion Cannon, whilst retaining the cannon upgrade slot as well. Has bonus of being more thematic. I'm not sure what is the better idea now. Yours is a little more elegant though it could prove to be a bit OP, I mean essentially, you then don't have to make a choice to weigh up whether it is better to ionise or damage.

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Tie/D X7 MKII

Title, Tie Defender only

"When attacking with your primary weapon, if your attack hits the defender is assigned an ion token."

0 points

 

This would kind of integrate an ion cannon, but without the range 3 secondary weapon effect. Leaving the cannon slot for a tractor beam.

 

Would this be sufficient? Yes, no boost in this approach...

 

As I was reading through this topic, my brain-wave was that since it is thought to be over costed by 3-ish points, I was going to suggest just giving it a free Ion Cannon, whilst retaining the cannon upgrade slot as well. Has bonus of being more thematic. I'm not sure what is the better idea now. Yours is a little more elegant though it could prove to be a bit OP, I mean essentially, you then don't have to make a choice to weigh up whether it is better to ionise or damage.

 

I think this is a very nice fix. it works on named and generics, and gives a build option to bring the points down a bit. Vess with this, stealth and LW would still be a great ship, and brings him down to 40pts. The generics love it as they get to triple up while still leaving room for upgrade fun. 

 

As a defender player, I can say, I like it a lot, partly because the fix has to be careful:

- No extra greens (we have the mk.II, and we don't want a defenderceptor)

- No point discount (the defender should be expensive!)

- No boost (imo it puts it awfully close to the t-70, and doesn't help with action economy problems)

 

This and the free focus token: either would be a lot of fun to play with, and wouldn't overpower the ship.

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It could also be altered slightly, to make the mechanism a bit different from 'an invisible ion cannon' - how about the following: 

 

Tie/D X7 MKII

Title, Tie Defender only

"When attacking with your primary weapon, for each critical hit, the defender is assigned an ion token."

0 points

 

This would bring it down a touch in terms of power. (It would be a matter of play testing to see if this should synergise with Rex's ability or not.) Either way, the Mangler cannon would become a great choice, as would calculation. It would bring new builds into the fold, keep existing ones viable, and pepper any game with defenders with a bit of ion sauce :) 

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Cap that at 1 ion a turn per ship and I like it. A super ion canon for the top of the line ion fighter

But...the Ion Cannons on the Defender weren't special.

 

In fact, the B-Wing is better at it than the Defender is.

 

 

Better in what?

 

3 heavy ion cannons vs 2 on the defender

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Modification

Reduce the point cost of secondary weapons by 2 points

"After performing a white or green maneuver, you may immediately perform an attack with one secondary weapon."

 

...oh, and yea, give them boost for the love of the Emperor.

Edited by Stilgod

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I'd argue against a cap. Ion clears after a round of disabling, so the only effect of landing two crits, and therefore two ions, would be to disable a large ship. The chances are low, and I'd actually be happy to see defenders get a niche as the davids to the large ships' goliaths. If you gear Vess with mangler and calculation, then great, you've specialised into a build to achieve a specific aim, with attendent pros and cons. You've also spent 40pts. Sounds about right to me... Like i say, it would need playtesting, but I like starkiller's idea, and my little tweak of it just makes it less reliable, and therefore more balanced, while still offering new build options.

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Modification

Reduce the point cost of secondary weapons by 2 points

"After performing a white or green maneuver, you may immediately perform an attack with one secondary weapon."

 

...oh, and yea, give them boost for the love of the Emperor.

How are you going to give it Boost when you just took up it's modification slot?

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Modification

Reduce the point cost of secondary weapons by 2 points

"After performing a white or green maneuver, you may immediately perform an attack with one secondary weapon."

 

...oh, and yea, give them boost for the love of the Emperor.

How are you going to give it Boost when you just took up it's modification slot?

 

I'll be 100% honest...I think FFG should simply give them Boost via the FAQ. I know its a pipedream and will never, ever happen, but it should. It was obvious from day 1 Defenders were lacking, despite the optimists who insist on shining turds. Boost along with the a Linked Ion cannon modification of some sort would definitely help make them the super-tie they always should've been.

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I'll be 100% honest...I think FFG should simply give them Boost via the FAQ. I know its a pipedream and will never, ever happen, but it should.

Quoting myself, from way back in post #4:

Giving the Sefender any extra actions on its bar isn't very useful without a solution to its existing action-economy problem.

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I'll be 100% honest...I think FFG should simply give them Boost via the FAQ. I know its a pipedream and will never, ever happen, but it should.

Quoting myself, from way back in post #4:

Giving the Sefender any extra actions on its bar isn't very useful without a solution to its existing action-economy problem.

 

No arguments here, the generics would still suffer without PTL(and should've had EPTs). But Rex and Vas can still make good use of PTL with Boost.

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Giving the Sefender any extra actions on its bar isn't very useful without a solution to its existing action-economy problem.

 

Agreed. Hence the suggestion of a free speed 1 boost/bank pre-move that's not an action; it leaves you with the effect of boost (more or less) but doesn't take up an action to do it.

 

The free ion cannons "baked in" is okay - but as noted, you could make the same argument for autoblasters/ion cannons on a B-wing, for example. The cannon slot is an important element of the TIE defender, because it's part of what distinguishes you from a T-70 X-wing, but I'd rather keep the options open - having a choice of ion or flechette or heavy laser or autoblaster - and if you give them the ion benefit, it should definitely cost you your cannon slot.

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Giving the Sefender any extra actions on its bar isn't very useful without a solution to its existing action-economy problem.

 

Agreed. Hence the suggestion of a free speed 1 boost/bank pre-move that's not an action; it leaves you with the effect of boost (more or less) but doesn't take up an action to do it.

 

The free ion cannons "baked in" is okay - but as noted, you could make the same argument for autoblasters/ion cannons on a B-wing, for example. The cannon slot is an important element of the TIE defender, because it's part of what distinguishes you from a T-70 X-wing, but I'd rather keep the options open - having a choice of ion or flechette or heavy laser or autoblaster - and if you give them the ion benefit, it should definitely cost you your cannon slot.

 

 

I was thinking more about the "free ion". It probably shouldn't just be a tacked on token thing. The downside should always be that you would have to choose whether to fire ions or primary or the other 2ndary (if installed). The myriad choices of this game are the whole reason it works so well. When it doesn't work, is when the points don't really add up. 3 points slotted in for free brings balance to the *ahem* defender.

 

*edit*

I take your point about the b-wing, but no-one here really thinks it needs a "fix"...

Edited by Pimpbacca

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