Defender and TIE Adv.X1 -comparing 2 lists

[heliodorus04 166]

Newb here again.  Still getting trounced by my own dice and more experienced players.

 

Over on the main board there is a "Defenders Lovers Unite" thread, and that happens to be one of my favorite ships to fly (into other ships and obstacles of course).

I saw a list over there that appealed to me that went like this:

 

Col. Vessery, Twin Ion Mk II, and a 1-point upgrade

 

3xTIE Advanced X1s with Accuracy Corrector

 

Linear thinker that I am, I can immediately see a list I get 6 hits per turn with via the Tempests because there are no dice involved.

Vessery will likely have an easy time shooting at targets that will be Target Locked.

On the surface it seems just nice and straight-forward the way I like it.  Plus shields!

And so I can see myself trying this list tomorrow.

 

But around my local play area I am seeing a large ship in more than 50 percent of my games.  The above list can deal with that to be sure.  I don't see any real drawback on it.

 

However, I was also wondering about swapping out a ship to make it a 3-ship list; I would increase the firepower of Vessery, and try to employ some shenanigans with two higher initiative Tempests.

 

Col. Vessery, Outmaneuver, Twin Ion Mk 2

Heavy Laser Cannon

46 Points

 

2xStorm Squadron Pilot with TIE/x1 & Accuracy Corrector

Also armed with Advanced Homing Missiles & a munitions failsafe

 

Now, this becomes list-building meta I guess.

 

I give up 5 wounds, an entire ship, and 2 attack dice that are going to hit a lot... 

I don't know how wise that is.  In return Vessery gets 4 dice with the capability to remove an agility die from the target.

I gain 2 initiative (to be faster than TLT spam lists) and a "shenanigan attack" that will benefit from the accuracy corrector, won't be expended if it misses, and deals crits that (if I understand the card correctly, and I believe that I do) bypass shields.  Albeit at a weird shenanigan attack range of 2.

 

My gut is telling me that the simpler, first list is the better list.  I feel that way because it spreads out combat potency such that focus firing on Vessery isn't necessarily as helpful as it is in the secondary list (I am still practicing positioning and flying, of course).  It gets more shots and more actions.

 

What benefits might I be overlooking from the 3-ship list (or something similar to it that gives up 4 ships for 3 more expensive ships)?

[Biophysical 15,515]

I think the 4-ship list is better to start with (assuming you have the ships), because it's simpler. Once you get a handle on it and figure out how you fly it and what extra things you'd like to be able to do, then tweak it by subracting a ship.

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

I agree with Bio.

 

But if you were to run a pair of generic advanced with missiles and accuracy corrector, might as well go with cluster missiles since they pair nicely with the accuracy corrector.  For the same points:

 

Rexler w/ Lone Wolf + HLC = 46

2 Storm pilots w/ x-1, accuracy corrector and cluster missiles (27 x 2)

 

The reason I prefer Rexler here instead of Vessery is because the advanced with accuracy corrector doesn't want to be spending its action on target lock very often, so its not the best helper for Vessery's ability.  If you are keen on Vessery alongside generic advanced, I would switch out accuracy corrector for FCS (also pairs well with cluster missiles).  YMMV of course.

 

Something else to consider: the new TIE/fo with comm relay is an excellent Vessery enabler because with a 'sticky' evade token, you can grab a target lock without fear at the earliest opportunity...

Edited October 8, 2015 by blade_mercurial

[heliodorus04 166]

I'm not a fan of TIE/FOs at this point given my capabilities.  I like Epsilon Leader, but that's about it.
I'm not saying I think they are poor ships.  I'm just not a fan of them compared to original TIEs, which I know how to use, and are cheaper.

[heliodorus04 166]

My thought on the Advanced Homing Missiles was that a critical hit that bypasses shields could be a game changer early in a game.  I'm seeing ships over 50 points more than half the time, usually scum ships.  Everyone loves the new Bxxzzt dude in a YV-666, and that arc is huge and something I can't exactly avoid at my skill level.  A pair of crits early on him COULD change the game.

 

On the other hand, that approach relies on the damage deck to provide me with something shiny.  And random probabilities have been bad to me, which is why I have switched to accuracy correctors.

The other over-looked thing on the Advanced Homing Missile that I think is overlooked is that it requires a Target Lock to fire, but it does not spend that Target Lock (thus you can use it on your own die roll).  Thus, Colonel Vessery can benefit from that Target Lock next turn still, and if the TIE happens to end up at range 1, three attack dice can be used and might beat accuracy correctors if using a Target Lock.  Finally the failsafe makes sure it's not wasted (at the same cost as the cluster missile in total).

 

I'll probably start with the 4-ship list at open gaming tomorrow.

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

My thought on the Advanced Homing Missiles was that a critical hit that bypasses shields could be a game changer early in a game.  I'm seeing ships over 50 points more than half the time, usually scum ships.  Everyone loves the new Bxxzzt dude in a YV-666, and that arc is huge and something I can't exactly avoid at my skill level.  A pair of crits early on him COULD change the game.

 

On the other hand, that approach relies on the damage deck to provide me with something shiny.  And random probabilities have been bad to me, which is why I have switched to accuracy correctors.

The other over-looked thing on the Advanced Homing Missile that I think is overlooked is that it requires a Target Lock to fire, but it does not spend that Target Lock (thus you can use it on your own die roll).  Thus, Colonel Vessery can benefit from that Target Lock next turn still, and if the TIE happens to end up at range 1, three attack dice can be used and might beat accuracy correctors if using a Target Lock.  Finally the failsafe makes sure it's not wasted (at the same cost as the cluster missile in total).

 

I'll probably start with the 4-ship list at open gaming tomorrow.

If you are seeing lots of large-based ships, then accuracy corrector is definitely a good choice because most large-based ships have low agility and therefore cannot avoid all of the damage.  Aggressors are the exception----they laugh at accuracy corrector if firing at range 3, and they have a bit of an advantage at range 1, so your ideal engagement range is 2 (unless you can block the aggressor with one of your ships, then range 1 ain't so bad).

 

You are dead-on about advanced homing missiles.  They don't spend the TL to fire, but inevitably, you WILL be spending the TL to modify the dice in order to guarantee they hit (you don't want them to miss afterall, unless you get lucky and roll all hits to begin with....does happen on occasion).  However, getting them off in the first place can be tricky against ships with higher PS.  Its the age old ordnance problem.  Also, even if you hit, they are sort of like playing the lottery----that face up damage could be game changing, or it could be disappointing.  The new damage deck is more 'reliable' at causing mayhem though, so that is something in the adv. homing favour.

 

Your first list is not bad at all, and I think you will have success with it, particularly against Bossk.  Remember to block him with one of your advanced if you see the opportunity--- with the rest of your ships shooting at close range, you could deal a ton of damage in a single turn.  Also, most Bossk builds include 'mangler', so its worthwhile to try to get your ships into that auxiliary firing arc where he can't use the 'mangler' cannon (which enables his potent pilot ability).  Also, being up close to him makes it easier to get behind him, because even if he tries to do a 'zero'/stop move, your 4 k-turn will clear and give you shots and him nothing.

 

For Vessery I would suggest either Veteran Instincts (if you face a lot of aggressors, dash and similar ships, PS 8 is valuable) or alternatively Crack Shot.  There is no reason to take an initiative bid for your first list.

 

Good luck!