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TheMoonLord

Defender lovers unite

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I don't think you want to give the defender boost though - it becomes a beefy interceptor - granted it doesn't get green turns - but still, the less like the interceptor and the more like a highspeed wreckingball of doom - the happier I am :D

I respectfully disagree here. If you've ever been in a joust with an Upgraded Engine Defender, pulling a Boost action to re-adjust your white K-Turn bearing can be absolutely invaluable.

 

This happened to me one game:

 

Vessery (mine) and Keyan (opponent's) were the last two ships left, both of us badly damaged. We were facing each other after the last exchange of fire, and we both pulled 4-forward maneuvers, him receiving his stress and me hoping I had over shot him. We ended up side-by-side without a shot, but I was able to Boost heading away from his back corner. This gave me the proper angle to 4K next turn and fry him with a HLC shot at no risk of return fire should my dice fail me.

 

Having more than one option for repositioning is great for making your opponent second-guess your maneuvers and will become increasingly useful against TLT Swarms.

Edited by ArdusKaine

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This is an entirely skippable rant.

 

 

Why the Hell doesn't the Defender have boost/Evade?

 

Have any of you ever flown against the bastards? They are stupidly fast and ridiculously slippery in TIE FIGHTER of all things, and that game's AI is so outdated it's laughable.

 

I get it, they want to make it into more of an Imperial B-wing, a heavy assault fighter rather than a Murdergodofdeath. but really, it deserves so much more. The mark 2 engine is nice, it makes it a bit slipperier but that ship needs boost. Even if it had boost, the toss up between AT and MK2 would mean that neither is an autoinclude, because both are fantastic!

 

/rant.

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This is an entirely skippable rant.

 

 

Why the Hell doesn't the Defender have boost/Evade?

 

Have any of you ever flown against the bastards? They are stupidly fast and ridiculously slippery in TIE FIGHTER of all things, and that game's AI is so outdated it's laughable.

 

I get it, they want to make it into more of an Imperial B-wing, a heavy assault fighter rather than a Murdergodofdeath. but really, it deserves so much more. The mark 2 engine is nice, it makes it a bit slipperier but that ship needs boost. Even if it had boost, the toss up between AT and MK2 would mean that neither is an autoinclude, because both are fantastic!

 

/rant.

 

Thats fact, not rant.

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I can see Col V with Engine Upgrade.  He kind of gets a free action anyways, so why not?

 

The more I think about Flechette Cannon for only 2 pts, it's not a bad option.  If you are at R3, then it's better than regular guns.  It's good at R 2-3 as it's the same as main guns, but you cause a stress if you hit.  Not bad at all.....

 

In fact, makes me think of a Scyk.  Why not go with Flechette Cannons?  They are only 18 pts at that and get 3 dice.  

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I can see Col V with Engine Upgrade.  He kind of gets a free action anyways, so why not?

 

The more I think about Flechette Cannon for only 2 pts, it's not a bad option.  If you are at R3, then it's better than regular guns.  It's good at R 2-3 as it's the same as main guns, but you cause a stress if you hit.  Not bad at all.....

 

In fact, makes me think of a Scyk.  Why not go with Flechette Cannons?  They are only 18 pts at that and get 3 dice.  

 

I've thought about this before as well. The stress from a landed Flechette shot should allow the Defender to maintain its 6 o'clock position on whatever the target is.

 

Delta Squadron Pilot (33)

- Flechette Cannon

- Twin Ion Engine Mk. II

 

Delta Squadron Pilot (33)

- Ion Cannon

 

It lends some serious control to a list and opens up your choice of 34 points for an ace, or even another Defender!

 

Delta Squadron Pilot (34)

- Mangler Cannon

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Been working on this list for a game tonight. Let me know what you think

 

Rexler Brath (37)

Push the Limit (3)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
 
Echo (30)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)
Wingman (2)
 
Backstabber (16)
 
100 pts
 
 

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Imagine a title for the Defender that forces it to, if possible, execute a premaneuver boost action every round.

 

Good lord that would be amazing. It would really nail the sense of hold-it-together speed the thing is supposed to have. That would be the trick I'd be using Advanced Sensors for anyway, but with the Mk II title as well? Beautiful.

 

 

This is an entirely skippable rant.

 

 

Why the Hell doesn't the Defender have boost/Evade?

 

Have any of you ever flown against the bastards? They are stupidly fast and ridiculously slippery in TIE FIGHTER of all things, and that game's AI is so outdated it's laughable.

 

I get it, they want to make it into more of an Imperial B-wing, a heavy assault fighter rather than a Murdergodofdeath. but really, it deserves so much more. The mark 2 engine is nice, it makes it a bit slipperier but that ship needs boost. Even if it had boost, the toss up between AT and MK2 would mean that neither is an autoinclude, because both are fantastic!

 

/rant.

 

Exactly. I completely agree. And maybe it's just the way action economy works in this game but Boost or Evade alone would make the Defender a much more competitive contender. It would make the PtL/Mk II combo stronger (and Rexler already works just fine with that) and it would also open up other Talents. 

 

I'm really really hoping we get some Defender love soon, be it Imp Aces II or something as-yet unspoiled in the Gozanti. I mean, for all we know right now, even the Gui- C- coming with the Inquisitor might make a difference, so long as it isn't another Mod.

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I'm a big fan of flechettes on Defenders.

 

  • It's cheap, which is nice on a costly ship.
  • Most ships don't have many greens and their next movement is rather predictable.
  • It's about as effective at range 3 as their main guns.

 

Yes, it's not as effective as ions against small ships, but it's WAY more effective against large ships.

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Yeah -
Delta + Flechette
Delta + Ion
Vessery.

Worked alright ...

If they turned, you could generally respond by rolling left or right.  If they were higher P.S. you had to decide whether they were likely to turn, and which way - or just stay and TL or Focus -  depending on the ship it was easier to predict or not - since it takes a boost or barrel to escape arc if you can be slightly behind them.

Most often the opponent would pull a green to clear that stress - to avoid being double stressed by the flechette (which it can't do) - which made them very predictable - it's interesting because it works better than Ion vs large ships.

Edited by Ravncat

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Yeah -

Delta + Flechette

Delta + Ion

Vessery.

Worked alright ...

If they turned, you could generally respond by rolling left or right.  If they were higher P.S. you had to decide whether they were likely to turn, and which way - or just stay and TL or Focus -  depending on the ship it was easier to predict or not - since it takes a boost or barrel to escape arc if you can be slightly behind them.

Most often the opponent would pull a green to clear that stress - to avoid being double stressed by the flechette - which made them very predictable - it's interesting because it works better than Ion vs large ships.

 

Well, Flechettes can't double-stress :P or do you just mean being stressed, clearing it, then becoming stressed again? Stress is certainly better than Ion Cannons against large ships since you only need to land the one hit to alter their course. Naked Vessery is an interesting choice in that list. I suppose so long as the generics were able to maintain TLs, Vessery was pretty successful?

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Defender has long been my favourite ship.

I've placed with it in local tournies against some pretty competitive netlists, so it's by no means underpowered.

 

Most of my favourite lists involve Vessery with support. Usually some form of target lock spam to make the most out of his ability.

 

Col Vessery

HLC, Outmaneuver, TIEMk2

46

 

Scimitar Squadron

Flechette torpedoes

18

 

Bounty Hunter

Weapons Engineer

36

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If I'm being honest, the Defender is the only case where I get irrationally jealous of different faction upgrades.

 

You know who would really love the K4 + Weapons Engineer combo? Colonel GD Vessery. Slap those two on a Shuttle (with ST-321 if you've the points) and Vessery could do anything he freaking wants to. Give him Crack Shot, Lightning Reflexes, Wired, Lone Wolf, Outmanoeuvre, heck I would run Cool Hand on him just to freak people out after a 1-Turn.

 

Bah! Humbug.

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I'd really like to take the defender out for a spin in an upcoming store tourney, and I've had my eye on two builds in particular - since there's so many defenderers gathered in one place, would any of you be willing to give me your opinion on them?

1)

Delta + twin ion engine x2

Echo with ACD, VI, FCS & intel

2)

Vessery + HLC

Sigma with SPA + FCS x2

The first list is low on synergy, but it gives echo some meaty backup , allowing her to stay back and play the range-3 game that she's so good at, while the deltas do their k-turn dance. The deltas also offer tlt lists the temptation to target them over echo, as they're ps1, and echo loves to avoid attention.

The second list is pretty glassy, but has very high damage output, ps superiority over the ubiquitous tlts and leaves you with a phantom or two on the table for your end game, assuming your opponent correctly targets vess. It's one of those annoying lists, though, that really could do with just 3 or 4 more points to dramatically improve it - two intel agents and lone wolf would make it pretty handy.

 

 

My first version of Delta Echo was this.   It had about a 75% win rate.
 
Delta + twin ion engine x2
Echo with ACD, VI, FCS & intel
 
You've probably seen me flying it on Vassal.
 
The problem is that defenders don't get stressed as often as your think, and even when they do they can still 3 hard and k.     I cannot tell you the number of times I have flown around stressed almost the entire game.    Until Echo gets her chance.
 
With this build players go right after the Delta's.  Also dealing with large ships and swarms is hard as well.
 
With two Ion's both of those are really no issue.      Once you get one ion on the large ship, they are afraid to go near the edge of the board.   You control where they fly.   It's a really fun scare tactic for sure.      
Edited by eagletsi111

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My wife actually has a favourite list that's two naked Deltas and Whisper with ACD, VI, and Rebel Captive. 100 points of brutal. Those Deltas can block and tackle like nothing else. She mostly ran it when Wave IV had just come out, but even with the change to the Phantom rules I think it's still pretty solid.

 

Not having a System on Whisper is probably the only down side right now, since even with two Focus tokens one or two TLTs stand a decent chance at dealing a damage a turn. ACD and a Sensor Jammer might be a solid way to go right now, unless you just send the Defenders in first and have Whisper bat cleanup.

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My wife actually has a favourite list that's two naked Deltas and Whisper with ACD, VI, and Rebel Captive. 100 points of brutal. Those Deltas can block and tackle like nothing else. She mostly ran it when Wave IV had just come out, but even with the change to the Phantom rules I think it's still pretty solid.

 

Not having a System on Whisper is probably the only down side right now, since even with two Focus tokens one or two TLTs stand a decent chance at dealing a damage a turn. ACD and a Sensor Jammer might be a solid way to go right now, unless you just send the Defenders in first and have Whisper bat cleanup.

 

Throw the rebel through the airlock and have 2 x MKII for the Deltas .... leaving one for ini ....

But wait ... there is a 1 point system upgrade ... anybody ever used enhanced scopes on Whisper? You would move right after decloaking ... AGAIN :lol:

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Well, Flechettes can't double-stress :P or do you just mean being stressed, clearing it, then becoming stressed again? Stress is certainly better than Ion Cannons against large ships since you only need to land the one hit to alter their course.

 

What's going to really mess people up is both. You can field three Delta Squadron Pilots with cannons - taking a mix of ion cannons and flechette cannons lets you land the coveted two-ion-tokens-and-a-stress-token combo that knocks a ship essentially out of the game for a full turn.

 

You can have 2 ion cannons and 1 flechette cannon and ??? (up to 2 points of upgrades)

or 2 flechette cannons and one ion cannon and have enough points to MkII engine up the squad.

 

One other though for a defender pack - if you've got a spare point or two and have three defenders, how about XX-23 Thread Tracer Missiles?

 

In the initially mentioned squad, you're going to be focusing with everyone anyway, so anyone not burning focus against incoming fire can use it to launch a tracer missile, which will hand a free target lock to his two wingmen...

 

  • Delta Squadron Pilot - Ion Cannon, XX-23 Thread Tracers
  • Delta Squadron Pilot - Ion Cannon
  • Delta Squadron Pilot - Flechette Canon, XX-23 Thread Tracers

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Well, Flechettes can't double-stress :P or do you just mean being stressed, clearing it, then becoming stressed again? Stress is certainly better than Ion Cannons against large ships since you only need to land the one hit to alter their course.

 

What's going to really mess people up is both. You can field three Delta Squadron Pilots with cannons - taking a mix of ion cannons and flechette cannons lets you land the coveted two-ion-tokens-and-a-stress-token combo that knocks a ship essentially out of the game for a full turn.

 

You can have 2 ion cannons and 1 flechette cannon and ??? (up to 2 points of upgrades)

or 2 flechette cannons and one ion cannon and have enough points to MkII engine up the squad.

 

One other though for a defender pack - if you've got a spare point or two and have three defenders, how about XX-23 Thread Tracer Missiles?

 

In the initially mentioned squad, you're going to be focusing with everyone anyway, so anyone not burning focus against incoming fire can use it to launch a tracer missile, which will hand a free target lock to his two wingmen...

 

  • Delta Squadron Pilot - Ion Cannon, XX-23 Thread Tracers
  • Delta Squadron Pilot - Ion Cannon
  • Delta Squadron Pilot - Flechette Canon, XX-23 Thread Tracers

 

 

 

It's interesting.    But I find when you fly 3 people can focus one down a turn.     That's why I added a phantom, because if makes the person you face take choices.    Should they go after Echo, or the Delta's either way their flanked.    And Echo can run away like no one else in the game.

Edited by eagletsi111

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Thanks eagletsi111, that's interesting! I run sigmas a lot without acd, but running echo without acd&vi is a bit of a mind-bender for me! Isn't every tlt on the table shooting her up? One evade doesn't get you so much these days...

But two ion cannons sure does sound tasty, i must admit. I'm interested in your build - Why stick with echo at 34 points, rather than juno, vader, jax, or someone like that?

I guess i could go for the middle ground of two deltas with flechette, and drop echo's fcs i suppose...

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Okay so I just came back from my local club tonight testing out my squad. Recap:

Colonel Vessery (37)

-Wired

-Twin Ion engine

Carnor Jax (33)

-PTL

Royal guard

-AT

-TC

2x Epsilon Squadron pilots

I played the same opponent twice. He's relatively new to the game but he's learning really quickly. His first list was BH w/ plasma torpedoes and recon specialist, Kenkirk w/ VI, Isard, Engine, rebel captive (and maybe other things....). After that I suggested he try a standard RAC and fel list to give it a go (He wasn't feeling the bounty hunter, which is understandable)

First game

He deployed kenkirk and the BH on opposite corners whilst I deployed centrally in a brick formation. Because he was spread out, I was able to persue kenkirk and do about half damage to him (both tie fighters did 3 crits where jax and vessery got rid of the shields!). Kenkirk booked it out of of there, meaning that he was 3 turns out of the game - allowing me to concentrate on the BH and kill him. One tie fighter was shot down in that exchange. I was able to hunt down kenkirk at the end by trading with jax.

Summary- The epsilon's are really useful to escort vessery and are genrally pain to deal with! Jax was a nuisance disabling Isard's free evade dice and other things :D

Second game

I deployed centrally but slightly to the right, whilst RAC and Fel were mainly on my right hand side. We mainly begun slow rolling, but I saw Push very close to the board edge so I attempted to trap him with a 3 turn with my fighters. Unfortunately He escaped with a 4-forward, boost and barrel roll. RAC was a little bit behind where One of my FO ties was badly injured. RAC lost all of his shields. The next turn I managed to block RAC with my FO ties and position vessery with a range 1 frontal shot. Jax also bumped into RAC with fel turning behind my force.

I will note that since my opponent is still learning, his target aquisition could've been better (for future turns that is), but that's life. Fel rightly targeted jax, crippling him and RAC only did a shield to vessery. Vessery returned 2 hits and 2 crits to RAC (2 direct hits, severely crippling him). The next few turns was me hunting down RAC with fel hot on my heels. I managed to finally kill RAC but consequently double stressing Jax, and Vess finishing off. In the next few turns Fel killed the remaining FO's and jax, leaving vessery to fight it out. Time would've been called around here so It'd been a draw - but we decided to play on.

For several turns I was trying to catch fel- But I was in a position to decide to try a red 2 turn to take a shot - Nothing. As a sidenote my opponent was playing fel for the second time and was playing superbly - knowing when to not overuse PTL which is a common mistake. The next turn I kept my stress and performed a 4K, with him doing a 1 turn right. Both of us facing each other. He did 3 damage to me and no damage to him. I performed another 4K, keeping my stress (but wired), which my opponent was not expecting. He unfortunately did a 1 turn left, retaining his stress from last turn. We were both at range 1- and fel unfortunately whiffed :(.....

Vessery attacked rolling 2 hits and 2 focii. The focii were rerolled to a hit and a crit. Fel defends with an evade, 2 focii and a blank. Victory to Me :D

I feel really good about wired and Twin ion engine on vessery. He's relatively cheap and has the capability of making those red manuevres with a neat bonus. Sure it's diced based - and i could have very well failed in my above example. But at the end of the day Wired is pretty neat on a defender for 1 point - plus following it up with 10 possible green moves. Obviously I'm going to keep practicing my list, and it was a super fun night playing against a grat opponent!

If you're still reading, hope you enjoyed. And have a great day! :D

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I flew this list yesterday:

Vessery

Crack Shot

Ion Cannon

TIE Mk II

Echo

VI

Rebel Captive

Sensor Jammer

ACD

Zeta Ace

although only the tie provided synergy to vessery i managed to not even loose a single ship against a PtL Poe, fully liaded jake farell and a loaded green sqd a-wing.

he didn't even shoot one of his prockets. zeta ace was incredible blocker for a high ps enemy list.

And Crack Shot is so **** strong to ensure your ion cannon hits the a-wing when you need it most.

Edited by Taiowaa

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