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TheMoonLord

Defender lovers unite

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I wonder if 3 Deltas with TIE mk II, tractor beam and s thread trackers will a thing? I guess it depends on what tractor beam tokens do. One mkII Delta with tracker and two mkII deltas with Protons might be a good alpha strike as well. All this makes me wanna buy some more Defenders, though I usually just get one of each expansion.

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I wonder if 3 Deltas with TIE mk II, tractor beam and s thread trackers will a thing? I guess it depends on what tractor beam tokens do. One mkII Delta with tracker and two mkII deltas with Protons might be a good alpha strike as well. All this makes me wanna buy some more Defenders, though I usually just get one of each expansion.

Maybe............................................................................ Spam periods!

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So after reading all of the Defender threads I decided to try it out for the first time last night in a casual game.  I usually play rebels.

 

I played Vessery w/HLC and Twin Ion with Vader and Dark Curse against Dash w/Mangler, EU and Predator, Biggs and a Z-95.  The Defender took out Biggs on turn 2 with a little TL help from Vader and a cluster missile.  The Defender took out the Z-95 a couple of turns later. Vader focused on softening Dash.  My opponent focused on Vader and Dark Curse removing them from the board (Vader rolled 5 dice to avoid 2 hits and failed with a focus and an evade to die) and leaving an untouched Vessery versus Dash without shields.  Dash is a tough ship to get in arc when it decides to barrel roll and or boost.  The Defender ended up taking out Dash after a couple of exchanges of fire.  Dash got a few unanswered volleys in by arc dodging and stripped the Defender of shields, but I had stayed at range 3 as much as I could and behind obstacles when I could.  I had some very good evasive rolls with the Defender, making up for the Vader debacle. I don't think I could have gotten him in arc without taking stress to take the red 1 or 2 turns if my opponent had run the typical super dash with PTL and Kyle.

 

I am not sure what to make of the Defender.  It is fast, and packs a punch with a cannon, but its lack of white or green hard turns at speed 1 and 2 really hurt it as I think you need actions to be effective. High PS arc dodgers seem to give it fits.  Also its crazy expensive.  However it was the primary damage dealer in the build and I did win. I will try it again but after playing it I am still skeptical that there aren't better options.

Edited by Wretch

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So after reading all of the Defender threads I decided to try it out for the first time last night in a casual game.  I usually play rebels.

 

I played Vessery w/HLC and Twin Ion with Vader and Dark Curse against Dash w/Mangler, EU and Predator, Biggs and a Z-95.  The Defender took out Biggs on turn 2 with a little TL help from Vader and a cluster missile.  The Defender took out the Z-95 a couple of turns later. Vader focused on softening Dash.  My opponent focused on Vader and Dark Curse removing them from the board (Vader rolled 5 dice to avoid 2 hits and failed with a focus and an evade to die) and leaving an untouched Vessery versus Dash without shields.  Dash is a tough ship to get in arc when it decides to barrel roll and or boost.  The Defender ended up taking out Dash after a couple of exchanges of fire.  Dash got a few unanswered volleys in by arc dodging and stripped the Defender of shields, but I had stayed at range 3 as much as I could and behind obstacles when I could.  I had some very good evasive rolls with the Defender, making up for the Vader debacle. I don't think I could have gotten him in arc without taking stress to take the red 1 or 2 turns if my opponent had run the typical super dash with PTL and Kyle.

 

I am not sure what to make of the Defender.  It is fast, and packs a punch with a cannon, but its lack of white or green hard turns at speed 1 and 2 really hurt it as I think you need actions to be effective. High PS arc dodgers seem to give it fits.  Also its crazy expensive.  However it was the primary damage dealer in the build and I did win. I will try it again but after playing it I am still skeptical that there aren't better options.

 

What were your upgrades? VI on Vessery makes Super Dash infinitely more manageable. Was Vader using Advanced Targeting Computer? The TIE Advanced not being able to spend the TL on the attack in order to add a crit makes Vessery much better since that TL will almost always be there -- meaning he's going to get a re-roll almost automatically. At the very least always put VI on Vessery because he then moves after Dash (assuming PtL Dash; he also ties PS with VI Bro Bots, Luke, Rear Admiral and a host of other ships) and can then Barrel Roll or Boost to maintain arc / get into Range 1.

 

VI is becoming less important due to the influx of low-PS TLT carriers and other, move-viable swarmy ships, but on Vessery it is almost always his best upgrade. I've yet to run him with Crackshot or some of the newer 1 point EPTs, but really -- in a build like yours, go with VI. Mind to post your full list?

Edited by ArdusKaine

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Used 2 TIE/FOs (basic 15 pts pilot) with Vessery that had no upgrades. Flew them in formation and wrecked some rebels pretty badly.

Also had Soontir Fel arc dodging around on the other side of the field who came in to support.

 

Wasn't super competitive but it was fun.

Those TIE/FOs are a lot of fun.

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So after reading all of the Defender threads I decided to try it out for the first time last night in a casual game.  I usually play rebels.

 

I played Vessery w/HLC and Twin Ion with Vader and Dark Curse against Dash w/Mangler, EU and Predator, Biggs and a Z-95.  The Defender took out Biggs on turn 2 with a little TL help from Vader and a cluster missile.  The Defender took out the Z-95 a couple of turns later. Vader focused on softening Dash.  My opponent focused on Vader and Dark Curse removing them from the board (Vader rolled 5 dice to avoid 2 hits and failed with a focus and an evade to die) and leaving an untouched Vessery versus Dash without shields.  Dash is a tough ship to get in arc when it decides to barrel roll and or boost.  The Defender ended up taking out Dash after a couple of exchanges of fire.  Dash got a few unanswered volleys in by arc dodging and stripped the Defender of shields, but I had stayed at range 3 as much as I could and behind obstacles when I could.  I had some very good evasive rolls with the Defender, making up for the Vader debacle. I don't think I could have gotten him in arc without taking stress to take the red 1 or 2 turns if my opponent had run the typical super dash with PTL and Kyle.

 

I am not sure what to make of the Defender.  It is fast, and packs a punch with a cannon, but its lack of white or green hard turns at speed 1 and 2 really hurt it as I think you need actions to be effective. High PS arc dodgers seem to give it fits.  Also its crazy expensive.  However it was the primary damage dealer in the build and I did win. I will try it again but after playing it I am still skeptical that there aren't better options.

 

What were your upgrades? VI on Vessery makes Super Dash infinitely more manageable. Was Vader using Advanced Targeting Computer? The TIE Advanced not being able to spend the TL on the attack in order to add a crit makes Vessery much better since that TL will almost always be there -- meaning he's going to get a re-roll almost automatically. At the very least always put VI on Vessery because he then moves after Dash (assuming PtL Dash; he also ties PS with VI Bro Bots, Luke, Rear Admiral and a host of other ships) and can then Barrel Roll or Boost to maintain arc / get into Range 1.

 

VI is becoming less important due to the influx of low-PS TLT carriers and other, move-viable swarmy ships, but on Vessery it is almost always his best upgrade. I've yet to run him with Crackshot or some of the newer 1 point EPTs, but really -- in a build like yours, go with VI. Mind to post your full list?

 

I put deadeye on Vessery so I could use it to fire the missiles with Vader's TL triggering Vessery's ability to get rerolls on the cluster missile.  Vader had AC, ATC would have been better.

 

Colonel Vessery (35)
Deadeye (1)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
 
Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Accuracy Corrector (0)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)
 
"Dark Curse" (16)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
 
Total: 99
 

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I am picking up a Defender soon to add to the Purple Tie Affair. Based solely on this thread. Well that and the fact that it's an easy peasy buy, the kit fits right in with my current Squadron, no extra cards from other kits required!

Major Rhymer w/ Determination, Adv Protons, Protons, Seismic Charge, and Munitions Failsafe.

Vessery w/ Outmanuever.

2x kegstanding frat pilots... Er I mean uh... Academy Pilots.

I'm a noob so if this list sucks badly I'm sorry. Seemed like a great combo to me and here is why. Rhymer grabs TL anyways and so now Vess can use his ability. All the toys on Rhymer make him a big target, but the real threat is Vess doing white K turns and slinging 4 attack dice. Take down Vess first? Eat secondaries!

At any rate the Defender is on its way so I'm just excited for free k-turns!

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I am picking up a Defender soon to add to the Purple Tie Affair. Based solely on this thread. Well that and the fact that it's an easy peasy buy, the kit fits right in with my current Squadron, no extra cards from other kits required!

Major Rhymer w/ Determination, Adv Protons, Protons, Seismic Charge, and Munitions Failsafe.

Vessery w/ Outmanuever.

2x kegstanding frat pilots... Er I mean uh... Academy Pilots.

Only problem I see is in rounds when Major Rhymer launches his ordnance before Vessery gets to shoot, so Vessery doesn't get the free target lock. But if Rhymer has a good shot, he has to take it. And with only two torps, the Vessery situation will only come up twice per game (barring horrible dice and multiple uses of Muntions Failsafe).

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I am picking up a Defender soon to add to the Purple Tie Affair. Based solely on this thread. Well that and the fact that it's an easy peasy buy, the kit fits right in with my current Squadron, no extra cards from other kits required!

Major Rhymer w/ Determination, Adv Protons, Protons, Seismic Charge, and Munitions Failsafe.

Vessery w/ Outmanuever.

2x kegstanding frat pilots... Er I mean uh... Academy Pilots.

Only problem I see is in rounds when Major Rhymer launches his ordnance before Vessery gets to shoot, so Vessery doesn't get the free target lock. But if Rhymer has a good shot, he has to take it. And with only two torps, the Vessery situation will only come up twice per game (barring horrible dice and multiple uses of Muntions Failsafe).

 

For the above stated reason, You might want to consider switching Rhymer out for Jonus and give Vessery a cannon.  This still leaves plenty of points for munitions.

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I have a question about the Defender and would like to hear people's opinions.  Does the Defender need a cannon to be effective?  If so, which cannons?  Does it have to be HLC?  Or can it be Mangler?  I know about Ion for control, but I'm mostly thinking about damage dealing capability. 

 

I've generally used Col. V without a cannon and use those points for more ships with TL ability.  I also throw in a high PS Tie Adv. for those anti-ace moves.  I'm wondering if I used an HLC in that list would it work better?  The problem with that is I will have to knock out a high PS ace. 

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I have a question about the Defender and would like to hear people's opinions.  Does the Defender need a cannon to be effective?  If so, which cannons?  Does it have to be HLC?  Or can it be Mangler?  I know about Ion for control, but I'm mostly thinking about damage dealing capability. 

 

I've generally used Col. V without a cannon and use those points for more ships with TL ability.  I also throw in a high PS Tie Adv. for those anti-ace moves.  I'm wondering if I used an HLC in that list would it work better?  The problem with that is I will have to knock out a high PS ace. 

 

I don't think the Defender necessarily needs a cannon, but if you're not using a cannon there are more point-efficient ships to take. Vessery with HLC is better than HLC on any other Defender, as the HLC gets dramatically better when you're throwing TL + F with every shot. That being said, I don't often put an HLC on Vessery 'cause I feel it makes him too much of an expensive target. I don't like the Mangler on Vessery (or any Defender, really) as it's 4 points for an effect that won't always happen. Also, Vessery's rerolls increase the chances of additional crits anyway.

 

I run ion cannons and flechette cannons on Defenders often. I think the flechette cannon is a steal at two points. Sure you're not going to use it all the time, but it's nice for range 3 shots on high agility ships and for ruining the Aggressor's day.

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I have a question about the Defender and would like to hear people's opinions.  Does the Defender need a cannon to be effective?  If so, which cannons?  Does it have to be HLC?  Or can it be Mangler?  I know about Ion for control, but I'm mostly thinking about damage dealing capability. 

 

I've generally used Col. V without a cannon and use those points for more ships with TL ability.  I also throw in a high PS Tie Adv. for those anti-ace moves.  I'm wondering if I used an HLC in that list would it work better?  The problem with that is I will have to knock out a high PS ace. 

To me, 7 points to increase the Attack of the ship by 1 at ranges 2-3 is a bit of an expensive pill to swallow.  That is half of an expendable ship (ahhh the Academy Pilot) that I can put on the table.  Also, I tend to spend a lot of time at Range 1 with my Defenders abusing the heck out of the white 4 K-Turn.  Then again, if you find yourself with extra points to spend, why not?

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I have a question about the Defender and would like to hear people's opinions.  Does the Defender need a cannon to be effective?  If so, which cannons?  Does it have to be HLC?  Or can it be Mangler?  I know about Ion for control, but I'm mostly thinking about damage dealing capability. 

 

I've generally used Col. V without a cannon and use those points for more ships with TL ability.  I also throw in a high PS Tie Adv. for those anti-ace moves.  I'm wondering if I used an HLC in that list would it work better?  The problem with that is I will have to knock out a high PS ace. 

The Defender does not NEED a cannon.  One could find a use for just about any of the cannons.  Three Deltas with Ion is a durable control list that also brings the pain.  HLCs are heavy hitters.  The mangler is a great cannon for adding crits and taking away R3 bonus dice.  Slow playing a Defender in the beginning will often lead to epic R1 shots after a white 4k move.  For fun I once put the autoblaster cannon on Rex along with EU.  Being able to boost after a K turn is sick and the R1 shots came easy.  

Defenders make great durable blockers.  No cannon needed.  Play them aggressively, force action to happen where you want it, and take the heat off of ships like Interceptors or Phantoms.  I personally LOVE 2 Deltas and Sontir or Whisper.  You can't ignore those Deltas, and Sontir or Whisper can't be ignored either.  There is no easy first target for your opponent.

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That 7 points buys you a hell of a lot. +1 die, no range 3 bonus dramatically increases your early firepower, which is the most important kind of firepower. Against high AGI stuff, it can easily double your damage, and can allow you a good chance to damage things you would have been struggling to hurt otherwise.

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Can you build a decent named Defender list with HLC that has more than 3 ships in it?

It would be a miniswarm probably, Rexlar+LW+HLC and then Howl and 3 Academies comes out to 100 Vessery would let you shave some points for upgrades to Howl or bump the PS on the TIEs up

 

It Would probably fly like the old Firespray+Miniswarm lists except instead of a rear arc you have the white K-turn

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Can you build a decent named Defender list with HLC that has more than 3 ships in it?

It would be a miniswarm probably, Rexlar+LW+HLC and then Howl and 3 Academies comes out to 100 Vessery would let you shave some points for upgrades to Howl or bump the PS on the TIEs up

 

It Would probably fly like the old Firespray+Miniswarm lists except instead of a rear arc you have the white K-turn

 

 

Sounds like a good list, but I'll have to dump Howlrunner for something else.  She's wasted points.

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I've run Rex-Miniswarm with Backstabber+Obsidians, which I rather liked. I think there's probably something cool you can do with Mauler, Scourge, and Backstabber as well. You could do double VI and get a couple PS9 heels to harass aces and strip shields for Rex. I'm also convinced you can do something cool with FOs. 3 would slot in pretty well, but I don't really have a good sense of them right now.

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