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signoftheserpent

Core Set Value

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The Core box for 2nd Edition contains 211 distinct cards - most as single copies, but a few are duplicated (234 cards in the box). They are split among the 8 factions, neutral cards, and plots. It contains rules for a tutorial match, and then rudimentary decks that aren't quite legal that allow you to play fun games with up to 4 people - you can also build with the rules used for their inaugural "Kingslayer" tournament. However, if you want to build a tournament legal deck, it's *possible* with a single core, but extremely restrictive (it's a process of picking a main and support faction, cutting about 4 cards and building a plot deck) .

 

Still, a single core is a very good starting point - and if you like it, you'll probably feel the urge to pick up a second one to give you some deckbuilding flexibility. Because of the high proportion of singletons, there are very few "wasted" cards in your second core, and it'll allow you to build many more legal decks, and play much more consistent decks. 

 

Then, depending on how far along in the cardpool you are at this point, you might just consider picking up chapter packs (full playset of 20 cards = 60 cards) to round out your decks, or picking up a 3rd coreset. The third coreset is seen as "necessary" right now (because it's the only product out) for high level competitive play, as it grants you a full playset of every card - but as the card pool expands, we don't know if it will still be as "necessary". On the bright side, again as the core was built to create as large a cardpool as possible (probably to make the game more palatable to veteran thrones players, used to a cardpool of over 2000 cards), the 'third' core is still very few 'wasted' cards - less than any 3rd core for any other LCG, and the core has a surprising amount of depth. In the first week of online/gencon play, people were  howling about the overpowered Greyjoys - 2 weeks later, about the overpowered Targaryens, and shortly after that, about the overpowered Baratheons, which are now being supplanted by the Lannisters... I wonder what next week will bring ;p

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The Core box for 2nd Edition contains 211 distinct cards - most as single copies, but a few are duplicated (234 cards in the box). They are split among the 8 factions, neutral cards, and plots. It contains rules for a tutorial match, and then rudimentary decks that aren't quite legal that allow you to play fun games with up to 4 people - you can also build with the rules used for their inaugural "Kingslayer" tournament. However, if you want to build a tournament legal deck, it's *possible* with a single core, but extremely restrictive (it's a process of picking a main and support faction, cutting about 4 cards and building a plot deck) .

 

Still, a single core is a very good starting point - and if you like it, you'll probably feel the urge to pick up a second one to give you some deckbuilding flexibility. Because of the high proportion of singletons, there are very few "wasted" cards in your second core, and it'll allow you to build many more legal decks, and play much more consistent decks. 

 

Then, depending on how far along in the cardpool you are at this point, you might just consider picking up chapter packs (full playset of 20 cards = 60 cards) to round out your decks, or picking up a 3rd coreset. The third coreset is seen as "necessary" right now (because it's the only product out) for high level competitive play, as it grants you a full playset of every card - but as the card pool expands, we don't know if it will still be as "necessary". On the bright side, again as the core was built to create as large a cardpool as possible (probably to make the game more palatable to veteran thrones players, used to a cardpool of over 2000 cards), the 'third' core is still very few 'wasted' cards - less than any 3rd core for any other LCG, and the core has a surprising amount of depth. In the first week of online/gencon play, people were  howling about the overpowered Greyjoys - 2 weeks later, about the overpowered Targaryens, and shortly after that, about the overpowered Baratheons, which are now being supplanted by the Lannisters... I wonder what next week will bring ;p

Is there a list of what's in the box?

 

How many cards does a full deck and plot deck have? Do you get much in the way of choice for your plots?

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A full deck is, as outlined at the end of the Learn to Play Guide (which you can download from the AGoT 2nd Ed minisite):

  • 1 faction card
  • optionally 1 agenda (which can modify the deckbuiliding rules - currently, all of them do)
  • 7 plots; you can have 2 copies of a single plot
  • 60 other cards; you can have up to 3 copies of each of them
  • cards in your deck must match the faction you chose or be neutral

There are 26 different plots, so you get a lot of choices with a single Core Set (over 750,000), and even more with a second one (over 1,750,000 due to many more choices for a doubled plot). I'd say the plot deck is where you have the most choice right now.

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The contents of the core is: 

 

x 28 Plot cards (26 different ones)

x 20 Stark cards (19 different ones)

x 20 Lannister cards (19 different ones)

x 20 Baratheon cards (19 different ones)

x 20 Greyjoy cards (19 different ones)

x 20 Targaryen cards (19 different ones)

x 20 Martell cards (19 different ones)

x 20 Tyrell cards (19 different ones)

x 20 Night’s Watch cards (19 different ones)

x 31 Neutral cards (19 different ones - but some resources are 4x, other staples are 2x)

x 1 Fealty Agenda card

x 8 Faction/Agenda cards

x 6 Melee title cards

x 30 Gold tokens

x 30 Power counters

x 10 Influence tokens

x 1 First player token

 

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So 2 core sets leaves you 20 cards short of a full deck. Are the cards compatible between factions, or do you need the neutral cards (and do you get enough of them to be viable)?

 

How many agendas come in the core set?

Edited by signoftheserpent

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9 agendas; 8 that allow you to mix a second faction in (by name; e.g. Banner of the Wolf allows you to include non-loyal stark cards to flesh out your deck), and one that gives you a minor benefit (alongside a deckbuilding restriction) from running a single-faction. You can also run no agenda, so that's a 10th option.

 

2 Cores, as I mentioned above, lets you build completely legal tournament decks - even a single core allows it (but not with a single faction - you are obliged to include two, and deckbuilding is extremely limited if trying to build a tournament legal deck).

 

Including 20 neutrals isn't that uncommon - my current 'competitive' Lannister single-faction list includes 26 neutrals - although it is definitely on the high end.

 

Furthermore, most decks right now use the "Banner" agendas, which allow them to play cards from two factions - with two cores, you have 40 main-faction cards (actually 39, given that you have 4 of one card), and in the vicinity of 24-26 cards available from a second faction (the non-loyal ones), plus any number of neutrals (around 50, from two cores). There's a fair bit of deckbuilding, and while you won't quite reach the consistency you would with full playsets of every card, you'll definitly have tons of deckbuilding options.

 

If building tournament-legal decks is particularly important to you, I'd buy 2 cores as a starting point.

Edited by -Istaril

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Just opened my 2nd Ed core set, not impressed for the £25 price tag when compared with the 1st Ed on components and quality for the same price. I feel the card stock for the tokens and the art style (on general) was much better in the first edition.

 

First edition contents:

 

Game Board, Rulebook, 6 Plastic Tile Markers, 6 Multi Player Reference Cards, 60 Power Counters, 44 Gold Coins, 6 House Cards, 28 Plot Cards, 180 Player Cards (Total of 220 cards) 

 

Second edition contents:

 

Rulebook, 8 Faction Cards, 28 Plot Cards, 192 Player Cards, 6 Title Cards, 30 Gold Tokens, 10 Influence Tokens, 30 Power Counters, 1 First Player Token (Total of 234 cards)

 

I feel shafted by FFG to be honest, it would have been nice if the tokens in the second edition were plastic at least. This would have elevated the overall quality of the core set. Not sure I'd going to like the mechanics in the second edition, but will reserve judgement until I play it this weekend.

Edited by dreddric

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I haven't noticed any card or token quality difference between 1st and 2nd edition (they did cut costs by removing the game board and plastic titles, for sure). The premade decks (the lists are at the end of the Learn to Play Guide), however, are actually playable in 2nd edition (in joust and melee), which puts them significantly above those from 1st edition, and all 8 factions are playable from the start (the first edition Core Set had only 4 playable houses).

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the 2007 core set costs $46 in 2015 dollars. I've noticed no difference in token stock across any and all FFG games, and with a few exceptions, I think Second Edition has excellent artwork. From what Michael Horvath said in an interview, inclusion of the Melee figurines and the figurines that came with Call of Cthulhu were actually very uneconomical, so no surprise there.

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Yeah. Judge not simply by the physical contents of the box - this core set is miles ahead of the last one. I mean, first edition included the figurines and the board... which I never used (sure, my loss, but the experience isn't unique to me). "More stuff" doesn't inherently mean better. Except the rulebooks (2 > 1, and they are much better!). And the 8 agendas, because of the double-sided faction cards.

 

The decks are much more coherent, playable. More factions are included, the deckbuilding rules (for plots, for 9 agendas) give it a far broader starting selection. The "Value" of buying 2nd and 3rd coresets is higher (fewer wasted cards, components). The distribution of economy cards is better. 

 

I loved 1.0, but the core was a *terrible* entry point. The core in 2.0, at least in the way its held up and displayed surprising depth since its release at Gencon/OCTGN (we'll see how it does now with the broader release), has proven to be a superb entry point.

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Yeah. Judge not simply by the physical contents of the box - this core set is miles ahead of the last one. I mean, first edition included the figurines and the board... which I never used (sure, my loss, but the experience isn't unique to me). "More stuff" doesn't inherently mean better. Except the rulebooks (2 > 1, and they are much better!). And the 8 agendas, because of the double-sided faction cards.

 

The decks are much more coherent, playable. More factions are included, the deckbuilding rules (for plots, for 9 agendas) give it a far broader starting selection. The "Value" of buying 2nd and 3rd coresets is higher (fewer wasted cards, components). The distribution of economy cards is better. 

 

I loved 1.0, but the core was a *terrible* entry point. The core in 2.0, at least in the way its held up and displayed surprising depth since its release at Gencon/OCTGN (we'll see how it does now with the broader release), has proven to be a superb entry point.

 

After now having played the 2nd Edition a few times now, I'm not blown away by it and I still don't think it's good value for money. Had a six player game with my gaming group and we ran out of power tokens mid game, fortunately having the 1st Edition handy we were able to boost the supply. There should be at least 85 Power Tokens available for a six player game, if however unlikely 5 players are at 14 power and one player at 15 power, they don't include enough to even cover half that. Newcomers to the game are not going to have a 1st Ed to boost their Power tokens.

 

FFG is turning more and more to the dark side, giving you little option but to have to purchase multiple sets just to have a decent base game that should have been in the box from the start. Notice how they haven't published how many cards are in 2nd Ed Chapter Packs, I grant you that is because we will be getting less than 60 cards for the same price as the 1st Ed Chapter Pack cycles.

 

I never felt I had to buy in to multiple sets in the 1st Ed, but the way they are marketing the 2nd Ed I feel I have very little option, and this just doesn't sit well with me.

Edited by dreddric

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I never felt I had to buy in to multiple sets in the 1st Ed, but the way they are marketing the 2nd Ed I feel I have very little option, and this just doesn't sit well with me.

 

You're mis-remembering. You absolutely definitely needed multiple sets if your ambition lay anywhere above terrible 45 card decks if you were playing a melee, and a paralysing lack of flexibility even if you were on your own because of the out of house cost. on cards.

 

1 Core Set AGoT v1 was dreadful. The 2nd Edition is hugely better in every respect, unless you want plastic tat.

 

I also don't think that complaining about running out of Power Tokens off of 1 core set is really valid - the game does say for 1-4 on the box. But yeah, stacking the core sets up against each other, I find the 2nd Edition hugely more entertaining.

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If you try to run a 5-6 player game out of one core, you aren't just missing power tokens but also cards (especially plots).

And it really isn't fair to complain about the 2nd edition core only supporting 4-player out of the box, because first edition has exactly the same problem!

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After now having played the 2nd Edition a few times now, I'm not blown away by it and I still don't think it's good value for money. Had a six player game with my gaming group and we ran out of power tokens mid game, fortunately having the 1st Edition handy we were able to boost the supply. There should be at least 85 Power Tokens available for a six player game, if however unlikely 5 players are at 14 power and one player at 15 power, they don't include enough to even cover half that. Newcomers to the game are not going to have a 1st Ed to boost their Power tokens.

 

FFG is turning more and more to the dark side, giving you little option but to have to purchase multiple sets just to have a decent base game that should have been in the box from the start. Notice how they haven't published how many cards are in 2nd Ed Chapter Packs, I grant you that is because we will be getting less than 60 cards for the same price as the 1st Ed Chapter Pack cycles.

 

I never felt I had to buy in to multiple sets in the 1st Ed, but the way they are marketing the 2nd Ed I feel I have very little option, and this just doesn't sit well with me.

 

The advice that ALWAYS was given to new players under first edition was always "buy a second core set."

And you're wrong--there will certainly be 60 cards per Chapter Pack. The preview for the third pack in the cycle contained card #60, "The Lord of the Crossing" agenda, which proves that the numbering will be 1-20, 21-40, 41-60, and we know that there'll be a full playset of each card.

 

We can only repeat it so many times: with nine-and-a-half factions to cover, a decent initial selection of plots, house cards, and melee title cards, there's only so much you can do with 234 cards in the box. If you want to give people more copies of cards, that must come by reducing the total number of cards by title. This impoverishes the overall card pool, reduces the deckbuilding options, and diminishes the value of a single core set.

 

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If "This game that clearly says on the box 1-4 players doesn't give me enough components to run 6 player games" is your biggest gripe, then the game must be pretty good and FFG on the money with what they give you.

 

We played a 6 player game using 3 core sets only, and it worked wonderfully well (other than some negotiation required on who got what cards in the shared factions.)

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How goes the game 1 on 1?

 

So glad to see ktom still around. I still remembering checking rules clarifications on ktom's sites back in the CCG days.

 

After basically skipping the entire LCG 1ed (always thought I'd start, but after a while, there just became too many missed chapter packs for me to want to get in anymore), I am so happy to be back with 2ed. Got to hand it to FFG for doing this. This is exactly what I needed.

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A full deck is, as outlined at the end of the Learn to Play Guide (which you can download from the AGoT 2nd Ed minisite):

  • 1 faction card
  • optionally 1 agenda (which can modify the deckbuiliding rules - currently, all of them do)
  • 7 plots; you can have 2 copies of a single plot
  • 60 other cards; you can have up to 3 copies of each of them
  • cards in your deck must match the faction you chose or be neutral

There are 26 different plots, so you get a lot of choices with a single Core Set (over 750,000), and even more with a second one (over 1,750,000 due to many more choices for a doubled plot). I'd say the plot deck is where you have the most choice right now.

At least 60, you may have more.

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Yeah. Judge not simply by the physical contents of the box - this core set is miles ahead of the last one. I mean, first edition included the figurines and the board... which I never used (sure, my loss, but the experience isn't unique to me). "More stuff" doesn't inherently mean better. Except the rulebooks (2 > 1, and they are much better!). And the 8 agendas, because of the double-sided faction cards.

The decks are much more coherent, playable. More factions are included, the deckbuilding rules (for plots, for 9 agendas) give it a far broader starting selection. The "Value" of buying 2nd and 3rd coresets is higher (fewer wasted cards, components). The distribution of economy cards is better.

I loved 1.0, but the core was a *terrible* entry point. The core in 2.0, at least in the way its held up and displayed surprising depth since its release at Gencon/OCTGN (we'll see how it does now with the broader release), has proven to be a superb entry point.

After now having played the 2nd Edition a few times now, I'm not blown away by it and I still don't think it's good value for money. Had a six player game with my gaming group and we ran out of power tokens mid game, fortunately having the 1st Edition handy we were able to boost the supply. There should be at least 85 Power Tokens available for a six player game, if however unlikely 5 players are at 14 power and one player at 15 power, they don't include enough to even cover half that. Newcomers to the game are not going to have a 1st Ed to boost their Power tokens.

FFG is turning more and more to the dark side, giving you little option but to have to purchase multiple sets just to have a decent base game that should have been in the box from the start. Notice how they haven't published how many cards are in 2nd Ed Chapter Packs, I grant you that is because we will be getting less than 60 cards for the same price as the 1st Ed Chapter Pack cycles.

I never felt I had to buy in to multiple sets in the 1st Ed, but the way they are marketing the 2nd Ed I feel I have very little option, and this just doesn't sit well with me.

I don't believe you. Is it possible to play a 6 player game with one 1.0 core? If you don't play 6 player game in 1.0 why do you blame 2.0 for lack of supporting 6 player game while on the box it says "for 2-4 players"?

Ps: you never felt you should buy multiple 1.0 cores because you never need cards from 1.0 cores. The card quality is bad. Only a few cards are used in later decks. Do you think it is good?

Edited by andrewaa

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