2 questions: What happens when it's impossible to place the last obstacle|What should I do when I encounter people measuring out multiple attacks?

[Darth Emphatic 148]

I believe the reason the TO got called over on the sloppy template guy after a few games at the top table was because there ended up being a close asteroid that he conveniently missed because of his shenanigans. I had my own games to pay attention to and I believe I also left after the second round or so because I can't do 4 rounds that start at 7pm when I have work the next morning and player count that Friday pushed it from 3 rounds to 4.

If I would have said something, he would have been caught earlier. It didn't matter in my games, but very good chance it mattered in the games after.

Sometimes I fly Dark Side. I played a 3 round Escalation tournament that topped out at 120 and I ended up with 4 Transdoshan Slavers against a wad of Soontir, TIE/FO's, and AC Tempests. I had initiative so after my PS 2's fired my opponent took his ships off the board without firing with them. Assuming he just forgot to fire I kept my mouth shut. After the game I told him about it and he told me he didn't know that and I felt a little bad. He also forgot to fire with his non-simultaneous fire PS 2's after I fired with mine and after giving him ample time to remember, I asked if he was good for dials and he agreed.

Other times my opponent fires with his ACD Phantom and forgets to cloak, fires with another ship, and then remembers to cloak and puts his cloak token down and I squelch my WAAC mode because I'm kind of a doormat of a person and regret it later because I could have used it to win.

He would have been caught? So you confirmed he was cheating intentionally? Sounds like the top table handled it properly and you did not. Sadly, it doesnt seem like you are interested in helping players, but punishing them. 'Assume the worst' and 'punish harshly any transgression' has got to be a crappy way to go through life.

[Darth Emphatic 148]

Other times my opponent fires with his ACD Phantom and forgets to cloak, fires with another ship, and then remembers to cloak and puts his cloak token down and I squelch my WAAC mode because I'm kind of a doormat of a person and regret it later because I could have used it to win.

There are so many cries for therapy in this statement I don't know where to begin

Seriosuly. If the two players in the x-wing national champions can play and accept a mistake like this...

Edited October 22, 2015 by Darth Emphatic

[DR4CO 6,234]

Other times my opponent fires with his ACD Phantom and forgets to cloak, fires with another ship, and then remembers to cloak and puts his cloak token down and I squelch my WAAC mode because I'm kind of a doormat of a person and regret it later because I could have used it to win.

 

This isn't directed at you personally, Goomba, but as this is a personal peeve of mine:

 

Telling an opponent that sorry, you missed that particular opportunity is not necessarily an example of WAAC behaviour. Provided you are polite and hold yourself to the same standards (ie. don't even ask if you miss an opportunity, and decline if the opponent offers to let you correct it), then you're doing nothing wrong. It's only when you tell your opponent sorry, you missed that cloak/action/whatever, but then try to fix your own misses, that you cross into WAAC territory.

[Amraam01 154]

I believe the reason the TO got called over on the sloppy template guy after a few games at the top table was because there ended up being a close asteroid that he conveniently missed because of his shenanigans. I had my own games to pay attention to and I believe I also left after the second round or so because I can't do 4 rounds that start at 7pm when I have work the next morning and player count that Friday pushed it from 3 rounds to 4.

If I would have said something, he would have been caught earlier. It didn't matter in my games, but very good chance it mattered in the games after.

Sometimes I fly Dark Side. I played a 3 round Escalation tournament that topped out at 120 and I ended up with 4 Transdoshan Slavers against a wad of Soontir, TIE/FO's, and AC Tempests. I had initiative so after my PS 2's fired my opponent took his ships off the board without firing with them. Assuming he just forgot to fire I kept my mouth shut. After the game I told him about it and he told me he didn't know that and I felt a little bad. He also forgot to fire with his non-simultaneous fire PS 2's after I fired with mine and after giving him ample time to remember, I asked if he was good for dials and he agreed.

Other times my opponent fires with his ACD Phantom and forgets to cloak, fires with another ship, and then remembers to cloak and puts his cloak token down and I squelch my WAAC mode because I'm kind of a doormat of a person and regret it later because I could have used it to w

Reminds me of the rebel captive situation where it is both players responsibility to play the game correctly, even to your detriment. If the other player had a chance to fire you should have reminded him.    

[ParaGoomba Slayer 3,180]

Rebel Captive is a must ability. Firing does not have to happen. I'm not going to remind my opponent to play their list optimally.

[Firespray-32 5,424]

I do wonder why you post these threads sometimes when you've already clearly decided where you stand.

[VanorDM 11,599]

Just to be clear on my earlier statement.

A TO giving a warning does not mean the person is being DQ'ed or even shamed in public. A warning is simply the TO saying you did something wrong, don't do it again.

If they did something wrong because of a misunderstanding of the rules or mechanics then that should mean the player won't make that mistake again and will be a better player.

If however they make it again after having been informed of the issue, then that tends to make look like they're cheating. I don't assume people cheat when they break the rules. But I do assume a cheater will always look for an excuse to get away with cheating, that often means claiming ignorance of a given rule.

A newbie will not likely make the same mistake twice, but they will make other mistakes, ones that may or may not need to get the TO involved. A cheater is more likely to keep doing the same thing, because that helps them win the game.

A newbie will makes mistakes that both hurt and help him, a cheater will only make mistakes that help him.

A good TO can look at the situation and consider the various mistakes made and decide if someone is cheating or just new to the game. That's why TO's have and should have the power they do, because the rules will have trouble telling the difference.

[Parravon 5,217]

One of the hardest things to establish with cheating is the intent. Most cheaters, when caught, will feign ignorance. But when you get some solid proof, then a disqualification can be fully justified. Altering components in a non-legal way, manipulating the damage deck, loading dice, etc. These are all good ways to earn a disqualification.

Skipping a certain rule, possibly because it's assumed to speed up play, is more of a bad habit than intentional cheating. But the intent can usually be exposed once the error has been pointed out. It all depends on the player's reaction. A good cheat will often bluff his way through and claim ignorance, some will even bounce the situation back to their accuser asking if they're sure that's the case. Unfortunately, an innocent newbie will usually react the same way. A bad cheat will be frustrated that he got caught out, and this will sometimes be visible in a number of 'tells'. Sometimes they will attempt to deflect the situation by claiming they were only doing what everyone else was doing. Sometimes they will try and counter with some lame counter-argument. Both of these will inevitably lead to a verbal dispute that holds up the game needlessly.

Being able to spot a cheater is a skill that is gained through observation and knowing the rules to the extent of where they can be broken to gain advantage, without it being obvious to the other player. The Rebel Captive is a fine example. When you know your opponent has one, but you rely solely on him reminding you to apply the stress, it could be seen as actively cheating. For a TO to prove this, is extremely difficult. Was it innocently forgotten, or was it forgotten 'on purpose'?

Before you decide to call a TO to your game and claim your opponent is cheating, you need some solid evidence, otherwise you're going to look like a fool. The first thing to establish is was it an intentional infringement of the rules? Or was it a slip in the usual protocol and done quite innocently? You're quite entitled to involve a TO in either case, but if the TO hasn't witnessed what happened, he's only got your word and your opponent's word to go on, and the cheater is likely to be untruthful no matter what the case. I guess what I'm trying to say is that cheaters will get caught eventually as there's always someone that is wise to their plan.

Every cheater is a rule breaker, but not every rule breaker is a cheater.

[Buhallin 4,563]

It can definitely be hard to identify the intent to cheat.  I tend to look at the outcome and advantage.  When a player quick-checks the range for all their ships, are they checking the iffy ones?  Or verifying things that are pretty obviously at Range 2?  I don't think you can always tell be repetition, especially for players whose home environments may be much more relaxed than the normal competitive environment (much less the firing-squad-standing-by style that some here suggest).  It's very easy for bad habits to slip in, even if they're technically illegal.

 

But there's always going to be a gray area, and we have to choose what kind of game we want.  "Innocent until proven guilty" exists because we consider it better to let a guilty man go free than punish an innocent one.  I look at our play environment the same.  Is it possible that our lax enforcement will lead to someone getting away with cheating?  Sure.  But what's the cost?  We can have a guaranteed zero-cheating police state, or we can actually have an environment that's fun to play in.

[Parravon 5,217]

Hmm... firing squad on standby... not a bad disciplinary measure. It would ensure fair play.

[VanorDM 11,599]

Every cheater is a rule breaker, but not every rule breaker is a cheater.

Very well put

  

"Innocent until proven guilty" exists because we consider it better to let a guilty man go free than punish an innocent one.

I agree that's the only attitude you can have if you're a TO. You should never assume someone is cheating when they break the rule. Assuming guilt if someone breaks a rule will most likely ruin the day for everyone.

Myself I have a modified 3 strikes rules. First time I may or may not give a warning, it depends on the amount of advantage. An honest mistake that could win the game is still IMO worth a warning. If the person isn't cheating they will IME feel as bad about it as the other guy does. I mean who wants to win because they broke a rule?

The second time will almost always be a warning, and the 3rd time would either be the 2nd warning or a DQ.

The odds of someone making a big enough of a mistake to require the TO to get involved, over the course of 4-6 matches and have them all be honest mistakes is pretty low.

Edited October 13, 2015 by VanorDM