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Ailowynn

Move over, stresshog

24 posts in this topic

In the last wave, the stresshog was probably my favorite ship in the game, and easily the strongest control ship you could field. Now, however, it has competition: TLT + Tactician.

 

Recently, I've been testing this idea out, and let me tell you, the combination is devastating. If you're short on points, you can do a HWK with TLT and Tactician for 24 points, or, if you'd rather, take a K-Wing with the same for 31 points. Either way, you get the ability to chuck out two stress in a single shot with no drawbacks*. You don't have the drawbacks of the stresshog (no actions, no ability to turn, and no turret), and with a K-Wing, you don't even have a donut hole from the TLT. And let me tell you, the stress-K can be just obscene. In the game I just played, a single damaged stress-K was able to solo a full-health IG-88. As soon as your opponent slips up, you get that Range 2 shot, and after that, a ship like the Agressor is screwed.

 

So I ask you: has anyone else had luck with this build? I haven't seen much chatter over it, but as far as I'm concerned, it single-handedly turns the K-Wing into one of the more potent control ships in the game.

 

(As a side note, you can even fly two Tactician HWKs alongside a B-Wing with Tactician and a stresshog -- which can throw out seven stress in a single round. :P )

 

 

 

*And yes, this combo does work. Tactician, unlike R3-A2, triggers "After you perform an attack" and TLT very clearly states "Perform this attack twice."

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My tie swarm has something to say...

Edit

Yes it would work but couple of problems.

1) your flying a hwk

2) your flying a kwing

3) all low ps (given your post I assume your using generics)

4) requires to be in arc

5) also has to be range 2

6) both ships dials are not that good

7) easy to predict / outfly

8) again your flying a hwk/kwing

OK this is more than a couple

I'd have to say the duel aggressors opponent is doing something wrong if he's letting low ps ships catch him in arc at range 2.

Something aggressors are good at, avoiding those positions

That's the beauty of r3a2

Its not restricted to range, which is easier to get off

Edited by Krynn007
Hobojebus likes this

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Usually nice, but I would say the HWK is rather not maneuverable enough to get some ace into firing arc. Good opponents should be able to avoid it. So trying to get into range and into firing arc with a HWK is very hard

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How many times per game are you really going to have that perfect target? Would I be happy to lay two Stress on **** near any target? You betcha. Am I going to build a list around it? Nope, l ain't got that kind of luck. :)

Scopes and Arma Quattro like this

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As a control player, I look at the two and immediately think "why not both." TLT tac is way harder to pull off but it's a game ender for the ship it hits. Stresshog is an acceptable jouster and can do stress at 3 and double at 1. The hwks tlt is nice when you're up against lists that can out joust you.

Moneyinvolved likes this

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In the last wave, the stresshog was probably my favorite ship in the game, and easily the strongest control ship you could field. Now, however, it has competition: TLT + Tactician.

 

Recently, I've been testing this idea out, and let me tell you, the combination is devastating. If you're short on points, you can do a HWK with TLT and Tactician for 24 points, or, if you'd rather, take a K-Wing with the same for 31 points. Either way, you get the ability to chuck out two stress in a single shot with no drawbacks*. You don't have the drawbacks of the stresshog (no actions, no ability to turn, and no turret), and with a K-Wing, you don't even have a donut hole from the TLT. And let me tell you, the stress-K can be just obscene. In the game I just played, a single damaged stress-K was able to solo a full-health IG-88. As soon as your opponent slips up, you get that Range 2 shot, and after that, a ship like the Agressor is screwed.

 

So I ask you: has anyone else had luck with this build? I haven't seen much chatter over it, but as far as I'm concerned, it single-handedly turns the K-Wing into one of the more potent control ships in the game.

 

(As a side note, you can even fly two Tactician HWKs alongside a B-Wing with Tactician and a stresshog -- which can throw out seven stress in a single round. :P )

 

 

 

*And yes, this combo does work. Tactician, unlike R3-A2, triggers "After you perform an attack" and TLT very clearly states "Perform this attack twice."

I've flown quad Tactician B-Wings before. It's decent, but what happens is that someone with Super Corran can just force you to fly around asteroids all day and simply never allow you to get in range 2.

 

This is why you have the stresshog, as it's a guaranteed stress. It also adds a tad bit of Ion to the build without costing you much damage output like putting Ion Cannons on B-Wings would.

 

The Tactician TLT HWK or K-Wing is certainly viable, I just wouldn't rely on it totally. I think Panic attack with a B-Wing or (maybe) 2 made into HWK's would certainly be good. You've given me a good idea, next time I fly Panic Attack I'll consider adding a HWK or two.

 

The K-Wing is a bit pricey but if you're already flying Miranda, Tactician may be a solid crew choice. Maybe add Engine Upgrade to her so you can better modulate range?

Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer
catachanninja likes this

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Goomba you nailed it, 4b is way to slow against anything fast, fat turrets eat it aalive fighting one at a time. That's why i went with 2b2y for regional/nationals, workedo great. Figuring out the tlt my is driving me nuts though

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My tie swarm has something to say...

Edit

Yes it would work but couple of problems.

1) your flying a hwk

2) your flying a kwing

3) all low ps (given your post I assume your using generics)

4) requires to be in arc

5) also has to be range 2

6) both ships dials are not that good

7) easy to predict / outfly

8) again your flying a hwk/kwing

OK this is more than a couple

I'd have to say the duel aggressors opponent is doing something wrong if he's letting low ps ships catch him in arc at range 2.

Something aggressors are good at, avoiding those positions

That's the beauty of r3a2

Its not restricted to range, which is easier to get off

Lists have counters? Wait. 

 

Wait.

 

WHAT??????

 

:P

 

As for your list of reasons . . . I'm so . . . gah, the pain. Everything you said boils down to "you're flying a HWK/K-Wing," and there's no real reasons why those are bad. If you think that HWKs and Ks are still "bad," the TLT meta hasn't hit home yet. They might not be excellent against a TIE swarm, but arguments like "low PS" and "have to be in arc" apply to half the ships in the game, and the latter is solely predicated on the fact that, without the Tactician stress coming in, you'll lose the game.

 

Yeah, you won't get the Tactician shots off super often, but you will get them off -- and when you do, it's a game changer. Two stress in one round is nothing to sneeze at, especially given the K-Wing's turret (when you're limited to white and green maneuvers, you're pretty easy to outfly). Plus, I've found that it's much, much easier to trigger Tactician on the K-Wings than on B-Wings or other ships thanks to SLAM; you can control the range of the initial engagement much more easily.

 

EDIT: that came off as a bit more defensive (and offensive) than I meant it to be. Sorry.

 

Is there a reason you did not recommend 3 Tactician Hwk's and a Y Wing stress hog?

Yes. I didn't think of it. :P

 

More realistically, though, I wouldn't fly it because it doesn't have enough staying power (in my opinion). Control lists can shut a ship down for a round or two, but you need to kill that ship while it's shut down. TLTs are really nice, but in some cases, I'd rather just have some FCS B-Wings for the higher max damage.

 

Plus, there's the problem of diminishing returns. The problem I have with lists like Panic Attack is that stress after the second is essentially wasted, and actually makes it harder on you a lot of the time since your opponent is more likely to take a white maneuver when he's given up on ever getting an action again. You want enough control ships to be able to get that stress each round, but you don't want to waste points on them. That's why I took the 2B + FCS, TacB, Stresshog list to Regionals, and I think that's why it was successful.

 

 

 

Anyway. That's all I have to say about that. I don't mean to be hailing the Tactician K-Wing as the coming of Christ; I just think it's an interesting, powerful, and often-overlooked combination. The Range 2 restriction is a problem, but it's something that you can get around with good flying. Double-stress without stressing yourself: it isn't half bad.

Edited by Ailowynn
acegard likes this

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Maybe it's my preference for playing lists with Vader and/or Soontir, but I'm pretty sure I could carve up a K-Wing or a HWK from behind long before it could somehow use Tactician on anything important. The Escalation tournament I'm in has shown me that K-Wings really don't like getting locked by Advanced Targeting Computers, and without RecSpec I'm not overly worried about the TLT if only one attack can be modified, I can usually leave both my focus and evade tokens up for defence once I have my target lock. 

 

Unless you have a few spare points and decide to throw in Tactician, I'm really not sold on this idea. HWKs and K-Wings use turrets specifically because it's hard to get anything in their arcs, so using and upgrade that requires you to do that seems like a waste of points.

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My tie swarm has something to say...

Edit

Yes it would work but couple of problems.

1) your flying a hwk

2) your flying a kwing

3) all low ps (given your post I assume your using generics)

4) requires to be in arc

5) also has to be range 2

6) both ships dials are not that good

7) easy to predict / outfly

8) again your flying a hwk/kwing

OK this is more than a couple

I'd have to say the duel aggressors opponent is doing something wrong if he's letting low ps ships catch him in arc at range 2.

Something aggressors are good at, avoiding those positions

That's the beauty of r3a2

Its not restricted to range, which is easier to get off

Lists have counters? Wait. 

 

Wait.

 

WHAT??????

 

:P

 

As for your list of reasons . . . I'm so . . . gah, the pain. Everything you said boils down to "you're flying a HWK/K-Wing," and there's no real reasons why those are bad. If you think that HWKs and Ks are still "bad," the TLT meta hasn't hit home yet. They might not be excellent against a TIE swarm, but arguments like "low PS" and "have to be in arc" apply to half the ships in the game, and the latter is solely predicated on the fact that, without the Tactician stress coming in, you'll lose the game.

 

Yeah, you won't get the Tactician shots off super often, but you will get them off -- and when you do, it's a game changer. Two stress in one round is nothing to sneeze at, especially given the K-Wing's turret (when you're limited to white and green maneuvers, you're pretty easy to outfly). Plus, I've found that it's much, much easier to trigger Tactician on the K-Wings than on B-Wings or other ships thanks to SLAM; you can control the range of the initial engagement much more easily.

 

EDIT: that came off as a bit more defensive (and offensive) than I meant it to be. Sorry.

 

Is there a reason you did not recommend 3 Tactician Hwk's and a Y Wing stress hog?

Yes. I didn't think of it. :P

 

More realistically, though, I wouldn't fly it because it doesn't have enough staying power (in my opinion). Control lists can shut a ship down for a round or two, but you need to kill that ship while it's shut down. TLTs are really nice, but in some cases, I'd rather just have some FCS B-Wings for the higher max damage.

 

Plus, there's the problem of diminishing returns. The problem I have with lists like Panic Attack is that stress after the second is essentially wasted, and actually makes it harder on you a lot of the time since your opponent is more likely to take a white maneuver when he's given up on ever getting an action again. You want enough control ships to be able to get that stress each round, but you don't want to waste points on them. That's why I took the 2B + FCS, TacB, Stresshog list to Regionals, and I think that's why it was successful.

 

 

 

Anyway. That's all I have to say about that. I don't mean to be hailing the Tactician K-Wing as the coming of Christ; I just think it's an interesting, powerful, and often-overlooked combination. The Range 2 restriction is a problem, but it's something that you can get around with good flying. Double-stress without stressing yourself: it isn't half bad.

I like the hwk, and kwing, and tlt are solid

But Tactician on those ships are not an ideal choice

Ya you may have one game you get that sweet shot, but how many games would you have to possibly play for that one shot?

Definitely not worth it, and better crew to put on those ships which would get more use each game

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I don't think the HWK TLTs are very good en masse because the HWK is a flimsy ship overall and will absolutely get shredded, especially with no defensive focus.  I know how TLTs work and the HWK is even less maneuverable than a Y.

 

I've got a far better ship for applying double stress- a YV with gunner+bossk+tactician.  It has a bigger range 2 zone, more survivability, and a very dangerous range 1 zone.

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I have a question...

Isnt tactician limited? ie. you only can use ONE per game... not 4 as per what is being discussed here? just checked the latest FAQ (sep 4 2015) and it still confirms this

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So after a month of playtesting the crap out of these for worlds, I'm not in love with tlt tac hawks. As others have said, if you get that shot off its great, but you get one, mayyyybe two opportunities per game. If you're running a pair of zs for range control it helps but right now I'm leaning towards a stresshog and a tactican b

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Overdoing a single control, I feel, is sub par. I prefer a flechette + tactician Bwing with two of my BTL Ys with ions. In place of the warthog everyone likes I run a rookie X with R2-A3. I use him to cover flanks and help add extra stress, after my B goes, when needed.

Never cared for the stress stacking warthogs.

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If you're flying Panic Attack and you replace one Tactician B-Wing with a TLT Tactician HWK, even if you never get a range 2 in arc shot with it, you still have a TLT ship. And if you do have a range 2 shot, then you get a ton out of it.

It also adds a second "top priority" ship for your opponent to kill, making decision making for your opponent difficult.

You also free up a point for a TLT on the stress hog should you want it instead of ion.

The question is though, would you be better off with Rec Spec on the thing to help sponge some damage and to always be able to modify both TLT shots? Or Jan Ors crew to feed evades to things low on health?

catachanninja likes this

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Anyone tried 4x TLT HWKs w/ RecSpecs? Is there anyway it could be as effective as TLT unhinged Thugs?

I feel like the lost durability isn't worth it, any ps bid can drop a ship before it shoots

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I tried running kyle and jan tactition hwks for the ps, and took expert handling and engine upgrade to better aim the stresszone

the game I tried it, I went against Vader and Vessery. Expert Handling shut them down harder than tactition.

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I'm loving tlt tactician combo on Torkhil. Gets a lot of aggro so usually only used once a game. But has a devastating effect on ace ships, especially ptl ones.

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