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Echoseven

Is X-wing Prize Support (slowly) Getting Worse?

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Some kits have more "value" for some players depending on what u get. Focus tokens for example is used by every list and every faction so it's fun to get them, cloak tokens on the other hand is used by one ship and one faction (so far) so not all players will think that is a good prize.

The fact that FFG is producing a bunch of kits for tournaments with prizes every year for most of their compeditive games is just amazing IMO. You always get something and getting components to use in game is awesome, I now have cool looking dice and a full set of transparent plastic templates instead of using the weak cardboard that I got just for doing well in tornaments, I love it.

Sure I like the movie stills better than new artwork but there are so many non movie pilots now so they had to shift focus. Don't know why they give the same pilot multiple art cards though, with world both han and luke will have 3 prize cards while alot of cool pilots have 0.

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Sure I like the movie stills better than new artwork but there are so many non movie pilots now so they had to shift focus.

 

Really? To each his own, but I thought the the actual art cards are more interesting, after all we've all seen the movies about 6000 times by now, I kinda want to look at something different.

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Yeah, but with cards like Push the Limit, several copies can be useful, and they gave as an Imperial version. C-3PO is unique and limited to one faction.

 

 

And the exact same thing applies to pilot cards. I mean, I really, really don't need all those Ten Numb cards I have. 

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Here's my thought on their prizes.

Winning prizes: Plaques and medals are nice, no need to change.

Alt art cards: I would give useful cards (ptl, recon, etc) as the participation prize. Use unique cards for top 8 or top 4 or whatever.

Cardboard card boxes: Cheap and dumb, get rid of them.

Dice bags: Keep if they can improve the quality.

Acrylics: Always a great prize, but they should stick to the most used items. Range rulers, movement templates, shield focus evade and stress tokens. I won the acrylic bomb tokens from a store kit last year. They are cool but I hardly ever run bombs so they are being wasted.

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Yeah, SC are typically not free to enter.  The most common price is $10 around here, with some going to $15, and one tried to pull off $25 (but after tremendous pressure lowered it to $15).  So complaining about the stuff is somewhat valid.  If there was nothing but the bye, the attendance would be abysmal, don't you agree?  Therefore, people are willing to pay the entry fee to 1) have a good time and 2) win cool stuff to augment their gaming experience.  

 

I've said this before, but I think it'd be really cool if they started a tier for their prizes, and they've kind of done that now.

 

Acrylic Range Rulers should be Store Championships Top 4, in that years color (Yellow for 2013, Red for 2014, Blue for 2015)

Acrylic Templates should be Regionals Top 4, in that years color

Mirrored Acrylic Templates should be Nationals and Worlds (with different writing for the winner) Top 4, in that years color

The first two they've been doing for awhile now.  It's weird that they made it the top 8 prize this year, but I guess with the top 4 prize being a coin they figured the acrylic was cheaper.

 

From there:

Top 8 Store Championships - Random one off prize.  Coin, Badge, Pin, whatever - not game related (and not card box either).  Actually, card sleeves would be really cool, especially if they were for the mini cards

Top 16 Regionals - Acrylic tokens.  They've been doing this and should continue to do this.  We're pretty much through the second season of these (first were the dark and transparent ones, second are the lighter translucent ones).  We're still missing a second set of crit tokens (and ion iirc), which dag nam it, they need to put out since I wasted my one good showing at Gencon on the season 1 crit tokens.  And then there are the more specific tokens such as bombs and cloak tokens, but I think those should be reserved for OP.

Top 16 Nats* - Acrylic tokens.  See above

Top 64 Gencon/Worlds - Acrylic tokens, the same as the top 16 for other Nats.  But the pure quantity of players at Gencon and Worlds requires a larger prize pool imo.

Top 8 Nats / Top 16 Gencon/Worlds - Dice.  Move these from the Regional wins to the Nationals.  These are super special and everyone loves them - make them super exclusive (but still winnable).

 

The only prize pool left open at this point then is the top 8 for regionals, which I'm fine leaving open - those folks get the opportunity to compete for the top 4 prize.  The other option would be to split up the maneuver templates into two groups - straights and turns/banks.  Hand out the straights for top 8, and the turns/banks for top 4.

 

Then for OP, you can have the build specific tokens - Cloak, Seismic (done), Prox (done), Proton (done), Clusters, Conners, heck, even the Ions could be OP kits.  Those would be top 2 prizes, and top 4 would be an alt art card.

 

And everything should have an alt art card as a participation prize.  I really like the idea of handing out a second one at the events conclusion for the larger events (regionals+), but I don't like how it's the same unique pilot - it is specifically for the ebay market.  Perhaps either make the participation prizes non unique (which also drives Ebay since people are going to want all 8 Obsidian pilots and only went to 2 regionals for a total of 4), or provide a different unique pilot at the end.  Or you could just go with PTL and AT and ReconSpec or whatever - you can always use multiple copies of those, but probably don't need a full set of 8.

 

 

 

 

But all of this aside, that plaque just won't look nice with my others:
10955536_2503499181990_70374723201413493

Edited by Khyros

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Yeah, SC are typically not free to enter.  The most common price is $10 around here, with some going to $15, and one tried to pull off $25 (but after tremendous pressure lowered it to $15).  So complaining about the stuff is somewhat valid.  If there was nothing but the bye, the attendance would be abysmal, don't you agree?  Therefore, people are willing to pay the entry fee to 1) have a good time and 2) win cool stuff to augment their gaming experience.  

Nearest one here has been doing $25, but they use it for something like $90/60/30 store credit prizes for top three, which is pretty **** good (and with like 10 people on average, quite cutthroat).

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Acrylics: Always a great prize, but they should stick to the most used items. Range rulers, movement templates, shield focus evade and stress tokens. I won the acrylic bomb tokens from a store kit last year. They are cool but I hardly ever run bombs so they are being wasted.

 

Got to disagree there, bombs may not have been a thing before, but I definitely think they will be a thing now, even if they're not the biggest thing. And I would LOVE some acrylic Conner Net and Cluster Mine tokens, since their expansions didn't come with enough cardboard tokens to play with properly.

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Ugly alt-art (Dash, Tycho), rehash of Focus, Evade, Shield tokens.

Missing out on the opportunity of re-using the awesome Howlrunner art from Armada?

Dice and range-rulers, again?

 

Yes, yes, yes, yes,yes.

 

Prizes getting worse?

 

Yes.

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Yeah, but with cards like Push the Limit, several copies can be useful, and they gave as an Imperial version. C-3PO is unique and limited to one faction.

 

And the exact same thing applies to pilot cards. I mean, I really, really don't need all those Ten Numb cards I have.

That's why I happily trade them away for useful stuff. My Chewbacca from last year's Nationals has been traded for Autothrusters, which means that I won't have to buy into Scum just for this card.

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Are we really complaining about free stuff?

 

I get what you're thinking, but we don't have "free" store championship tournaments around here that I know of, maybe it's different where you live though. :P

No, not free, but $15 average is a very reasonable entry fee. The hosting store can justify the square footage, and prize support and sales are usually thrown in. Then you get GUARANTEED swag and more with easy reach.

This just comes across as a bunch of spoiled gamers whining because FFG didn't create an individualized swag bag. If you don't like the swag, or don't need it, give it to a new player in your area and help them get started in the game.

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This just comes across as a bunch of spoiled gamers whining because FFG didn't create an individualized swag bag.

 

 

Come on. What this comes off as is customers of a company providing feedback on a product that the company is producing. I don't know what made you perceive it as whining, but that is stupid.

 

Feedback is critical because it allows companies to please consumers which make the companies more successful. The more successful X-Wing is, the better it is for the players.

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This just comes across as a bunch of spoiled gamers whining because FFG didn't create an individualized swag bag.

 

Come on. What this comes off as is customers of a company providing feedback on a product that the company is producing. I don't know what made you perceive it as whining, but that is stupid.

 

Feedback is critical because it allows companies to please consumers which make the companies more successful. The more successful X-Wing is, the better it is for the players.

C-3PO alone goes for ~$30 on ebay, currently. The average entry fee is $15. Top 32 (so usually everybody) gets a C-3PO card. So everybody is guaranteed to double their investment at minimum, and yet are complaining that the prize support is on the decline.

Trust me, I'm all for open and honest customer feedback, and I respect that FFG is receptive to it, but this is a little excessive. This thread was created within hours of the announcement and is mostly just speculation the alternate art card will be lame.

Are you honestly telling me that, "your product for next year will probably suck", is helpful feedback for FFG? If you want to offer feedback, wait until you have the final product and then tell them what you think.

Maybe it's just that I suffer from jilted gamer syndrome from playing GW games but I'm used to paying more for tournaments and no included prize support from the company. But I've gotta take a hard FFG apologist stance on this one.

Edited by Sekac

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This just comes across as a bunch of spoiled gamers whining because FFG didn't create an individualized swag bag.

 

Come on. What this comes off as is customers of a company providing feedback on a product that the company is producing. I don't know what made you perceive it as whining, but that is stupid.

 

Feedback is critical because it allows companies to please consumers which make the companies more successful. The more successful X-Wing is, the better it is for the players.

C-3PO alone goes for ~$30 on ebay, currently. The average entry fee is $15. Top 32 (so usually everybody) gets a C-3PO card. So everybody is guaranteed to double their investment at minimum, and yet are complaining that the prize support is on the decline.

 

Be fair. C3PO will be way cheaper after this...

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Yes because FFG decided to level the playing field by flooding the market with a normally cost prohibitive card. And yet still we whine about it.

I just find threads like these embarrassing and I hope that FFG disregards these complaints out of hand.

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C-3PO alone goes for ~$30 on ebay, currently. The average entry fee is $15. Top 32 (so usually everybody) gets a C-3PO card. So everybody is guaranteed to double their investment at minimum, and yet are complaining that the prize support is on the decline.

 

 

Are you suggesting that a card that each player only ever needs one of being released as a participation prize (meaning that there is a solid chance of there being more cards available then there are players at many venues) in a tournament kit that is accessible to any game store will not dilute the value of that card which was previously expensive to obtain?

 

 

Are you honestly telling me that, "your product for next year will probably suck", is helpful feedback for FFG? If you want to offer feedback, wait until you have the final product and then tell them what you think.

 

 

Framing it that way is rediculous. People are saying that the undesirable changes made to tournament prize support over time is leading them to believe that the pattern will continue. That isn't difficult to follow and is essentially players voicing their opinion to FFG that the quality of the prize support is an important part of their X-Wing experience.

 

Also, why would you wait for a company that you are invested in to release a product that will damage the company? As a consumer, your reasonable complaint, opinions, and idea can be very valuable to a company.

 

 

But I've gotta take a hard FFG apologist stance on this one.

 

Or you could just be reasonable and see this concern for what it is, but that is up to you.

 

 

I just find threads like these embarrassing and I hope that FFG disregards these complaints out of hand.

 

I find your thought process embarrassing. I hope that FFG understands that players are concerned about the quality of the prizes that FFG develops for tournaments and continues to make desirable items.

 

How could it possible harm you or FFG to know that some players want decent prize support?

Edited by Rapture

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Here's what you get for a 75$ store championship kit, because FFG doesn't give them out right?

 

1 bland looking plate

4 metal coins

8 acrylic range rulers

32 cards (c3p0)

 

They are not giving out a 30$ card. Alt Art C3PO is worth, drum roll, 5$ max on ebay. There's barely 10$ worth of content in the kit. FFG is making a lot of money out of it. I organized a Splendor tournament using the asmoplay tournament kit. For 60$, the kit included :

 

2 retail copies of Splendor

16 set of nobles tiles

20 stack of 7 translucent poker chips tokens

2 stacks of 4 gold poker chip tokens

2 large playmat to play the game

 

So yes, FFG prizes are crap. Heck, I was at Gen Con, for 180+ players, they gave out a copy of Luke Skywalkers (woohoo...), Bad looking crit tokens to top 16, and templates to top 8, bags to finalist...Then you walk back and see 10 000$ Legendary Tournament...shake your head...

Edited by Vuud

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Here's what you get for a 75$ store championship kit, because FFG doesn't give them out right?

 

1 bland looking plate

4 metal coins

8 acrylic range rulers

32 cards (c3p0)

 

They are not giving out a 30$ card. Alt Art C3PO is worth, drum roll, 5$ max on ebay. There's barely 10$ worth of content in the kit. FFG is making a lot of money out of it. I organized a Splendor tournament using the asmoplay tournament kit. For 60$, the kit included :

 

2 retail copies of Splendor

16 set of nobles tiles

20 stack of 7 translucent poker chips tokens

2 stacks of 4 gold poker chip tokens

2 large playmat to play the game

 

So yes, FFG prizes are crap. Heck, I was at Gen Con, for 180+ players, they gave out a copy of Luke Skywalkers (woohoo...), Bad looking crit tokens to top 16, and templates to top 8, bags to finalist...Then you walk back and see 10 000$ Legendary Tournament...shake your head...

 

FFG prize support isn't the best. Japanime games was giving out blind box Krosmaster figures as a participation prize with tournament winners getting credit to purchase Japanime merchandise. I think they were running 4 core set draft tournaments a day with free entry over 4 days. They also ran one constructed tournament a day (I think that one had a $10-$15 entry fee) that had higher pirze amounts. There was one guy that spent a lot of time playing the different free tournaments and walked away with a core set, an expansion, and a hell of a lot of figures.

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So yes, FFG prizes are crap. Heck, I was at Gen Con, for 180+ players, they gave out a copy of Luke Skywalkers (woohoo...), Bad looking crit tokens to top 16, and templates to top 8, bags to finalist...Then you walk back and see 10 000$ Legendary Tournament...shake your head...

 

That's sort of the point. FFG doesn't want to bring in the prize obsessed, money players. Which is why cash will never be a prize. And the prizes are never going to be OMG great. Brings out only those that actually want to play. 

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