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Chimpy

Grenade question - failing the check

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I had a situation come up in the game last night where an NPC threw a frag grenade at the party (who were taking cover behind a door) and didn't make the Ranged (Light) check, with a simple failure.

 

I was wondering what would happen narratively in this case, with advantage, threat or just simple failure. Does the grenade go off, or not?

 

In the case I had, I said that the grenade bounced away and detonated harmlessly away from the combatants, but was unsure if that was the best call.

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It's a dud. It misses. Turns into a pineapple. It just doesn't "hit" (though I think it can still explode with sufficient advantage).

 

In the case I had, I said that the grenade bounced away and detonated harmlessly away from the combatants, but was unsure if that was the best call.

 

This is perfectly fine!

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I personally tend to make explosives as dangerous as they come. On a failed check, the grenade is a dud. Small advantage but fails, the grenade is a dud but gets somewhat close to the intended target (could potentially be looked at later and fixed, of course by skilled hands). Big advantage and failure, gets thrown accurately but doesn't explode (person maybe didn't activate it correctly), could be thrown back in functioning order. Small threat and failure, gets somewhat close to intended target and explodes potentially placing friend and foe in danger. Big threat and failure, blows up prematurely. Pass is pass. Pass with advantage big or small is what it is normally. Pass with threat, grenade gets to intended target but delays in explosion, granting the other side a chance to get away. Pass with great threat, gets to intended target, active grenade but does not explode, more delay to the point of being able to do something with it, however it's active so figure something out quick because it will explode. Would use a timer on delayed reactions to give the pcs / npcs a small window of opportunity. Would of course have the timer behind the gm screen, unless someone has done something to figure out how long a delayed detonation may take, etc (small chance)

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A small puppy runs into the battle, jumps, catches the grenade in its mouth and runs off before anyone can steal its new toy.

Everyone pauses.

There is a wet "crump" off screen.

The combatants look uncomfortable and avoid each other's gaze.

Edited by Col. Orange

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I personally tend to make explosives as dangerous as they come. On a failed check, the grenade is a dud. 

I fail to see how that is very dangerous!? Ridiculous, yes, dangerous, no.  I think you need to go back and read the rules on grenades...

 

I don't really see manufactured military grade explosives as having a high fail rate. If the US Army paid good money for grenades, and they have a fail rate of even 10% WOW! 

The ones the Army has have a fail rate of less than .01% by by the way. 

Now, just people failing at grenades...That can happen a lot! You can find many hilarious videos of people failing at throwing them... 

 

Pretty much every one thrown should blow up. Maybe on a double Despair would I call it a dud, maybe even three Despairs! So like, never...

 

Homemade stuff? Sure. Those can fail all the time, especially if you using anything found in the Anarchist's Cookbook.

Edited by R2builder

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HAHAHA. I just remember that book making it's rounds and being popular when I was in high school. A buddy of mine had a copy. It was kind of neat, but everything in there seemed like it was made by a high school kid, or was made to blow your self up. Which of course was some of the rampant rumors about it back in the day, that the govies actually put it out to teach people the wrong way to do stuff....So I checked it out, satisfied my morbid curiosity, then I went and joined the military!  Then I got to do a bunch of cool stuff for real, and didn't have to worry about blowing my self up...just other people doing it for me...

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1 advantage isn't much...but I always try make my players narrate small stuff like healing strain. Everything in this game can be awesome if you make it so.

 

Heal 1 strain: "The grenade bounces between two cargo crates that blow up in a spectacular explosion. The explosion surprises the enemy that had you in his crosshairs long enough for you to take a deep breath and concentrate on the battlefield at hand."

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A miss with <3 adv can basically be translated as a dud (no explosion) or a bad throw (explosion, no effect/damage).  However, more detail is provided in the Blast quality's description (pg 155), specifically the following passage:

 

"However, the user may also trigger Blast if the attack misses, by spending 3 x [adv].  In this case, the original target and every target engaged with the original target suffers damage equal to the Blast rating of the weapon."

 

So, if you miss with a pile of advantage, you can still do damage to the targets.

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I'd agree with R2 that misses being duds is kind of ridiculous. I typically narrate a miss as either the throw was off and the explosion didn't hurt anyone, or people ducked behind cover as shrapnel bounces off the walls, etc, etc. Just like how a failed attack with a blaster doesn't mean it temporarily jammed, it just failed to hit anyone.

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I don't call misses as duds, I prefer there are consequences to throwing things that explode.

What kind of consequences? Generally the only real consequence is that the lob was off target and ends up just doing terrain damage. (got stuck against a rock or wall, found a nook to roll into... etc...)

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I don't call misses as duds, I prefer there are consequences to throwing things that explode.

What kind of consequences? Generally the only real consequence is that the lob was off target and ends up just doing terrain damage. (got stuck against a rock or wall, found a nook to roll into... etc...)

 

Not all combat takes place in the same place with inconsequential surroundings.

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I don't call misses as duds, I prefer there are consequences to throwing things that explode.

 

I agree. Failure means it bounces away harmlessly, but still goes off. Over 20 years in law enforcement / military seeing myself or others toss frag grenades, chemical grenades, flash bangs (all use the same ignition device) and only encountered one dud. Ever. I know it's a game so you can have many more duds if you wish, but I think it would be much more common for the failed throw to result in a bad throw - the grenade going off in such a place the effects aren't felt by the target.

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I agree. Failure means it bounces away harmlessly, but still goes off. Over 20 years in law enforcement / military seeing myself or others toss frag grenades, chemical grenades, flash bangs (all use the same ignition device) and only encountered one dud. Ever.

You are startled by the Wookiee’s sudden battle scream, and you accidentally drop the grenade after having pulled out the pin, the spoon pops off exactly like it’s supposed to, and the grenade starts rolling towards your best buddy — the Klatooinian Heavy with E-Web Repeating Blaster mounted on a weapon harness.

What do you do?

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A Miss/failure with 1 or 2 Advantages might, for me mean the Grenade toss was off, but fell close enough to the targets to cause some or all f them to drop/dive for cover. Not doing damage but delaying their actions due to loss of a maneuver recovering. 

 

How ever if I had More threats than advantages on a failure I might have it do the same back to the players, even to the point of hitting the players with 3 or more threat or a despair.

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I personally tend to make explosives as dangerous as they come. On a failed check, the grenade is a dud.

I fail to see how that is very dangerous!? Ridiculous, yes, dangerous, no.  I think you need to go back and read the rules on grenades...

 

I don't really see manufactured military grade explosives as having a high fail rate. If the US Army paid good money for grenades, and they have a fail rate of even 10% WOW! 

The ones the Army has have a fail rate of less than .01% by by the way. 

Now, just people failing at grenades...That can happen a lot! You can find many hilarious videos of people failing at throwing them... 

 

Pretty much every one thrown should blow up. Maybe on a double Despair would I call it a dud, maybe even three Despairs! So like, never...

If that's how you play it, that's how you play it. Generally the campaigns I run are based around the underworld, colonies, forts, and wildlife. Who'd they buy this grenade from? Where did they loot it? Where did the grenade come from? Was it said that these grenades or all grenades for that matter are military grade? No.

These were merely examples, not definite cases for each scenario because environment and circumstance play a large role. Good job with your statistics though, I forgot I was playing American Soldier: Grenades of Supreme Caliber. The book, page 165 for Frag Grenades says the grenades can be anything from military grade to homemade on primitive worlds. I don't believe the OP specified the situation so I gave ideas. Sure, it can blast away harmlessly off into the distance elsewhere, but unless these grenades are coming from some prime source, I'm going to say they don't have the same regulations and rules that a munitions factory under Imperial Law would have in creating the things.

Play your game and I'll play mine.

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A small puppy runs into the battle, jumps, catches the grenade in it's mouth and runs off before anyone can steal its new toy.

Everyone pauses.

There is a wet "crump" off screen.

The combatants look uncomfortable and avoid each other's gaze.

Can't stop laughing. I'm a bad person.

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Something to bear in mind is that grenades in this game have a pretty small blast radius (they only affect those engaged with the original target). A modern frag grenade has a kill radius of several meters and an injury radius of up to about 40 meters (maximum). It's not safe to use one unless you're behind some kind of cover. But, grenades are not like that in Edge. Given the small blast radius of grenades in this game, I can easily see a grenade missing, and blowing up harmlessly in most situations.

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There is room for more Talents/Specs for adding to grenades I am thinking.

I believe the Demolitionist (sp?) has some good stuff for grenades, but I'd like to see a Grenadier in the Soldier book.

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Also, 2 advantages opens "standard" possibilities for setbacks, boosts and losing cover.

 

When a grenade is thrown at me, and the blast doesn't hit me, there is a good chance it is because I either ducked for cover - setback for me on next check - or I left my current position to escape from the blast - boost for hitting me or simply no cover for me.

 

Threat on the other hand could quite possibly mean a dud in my opinion, or sufficient thread or despair has led to a grenade being thrown back in the past.

 

We even hat a grenade that missed with triumph and lots of threat (don't remember exactly, but it was more than 3-4 I think)  in the follow up of the eote beginner game. The player suggested that he forgot to pull the pin and the bounty hunters threw the grenade back at him, not realising that the pin wasn't pulled, which was funny enough to let it happen :D

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I agree. Failure means it bounces away harmlessly, but still goes off. Over 20 years in law enforcement / military seeing myself or others toss frag grenades, chemical grenades, flash bangs (all use the same ignition device) and only encountered one dud. Ever.

You are startled by the Wookiee’s sudden battle scream, and you accidentally drop the grenade after having pulled out the pin, the spoon pops off exactly like it’s supposed to, and the grenade starts rolling towards your best buddy — the Klatooinian Heavy with E-Web Repeating Blaster mounted on a weapon harness.

What do you do?

 

 

I pick it up and throw it more quickly than I would have liked.  Grenades have delayed fuses for a reason...

 

As for the OT, grenades are designed to go BOOM.  One would think they'd do that more frequently than they wouldn't and the real danger would be where this BOOM occurs.

 

IMHO, misses are just that -- explosions that miss the enemy and allies.  Despairs could be unlucky bounces that hit allies, duds or forgetting to pull the pin.  All of these things, however, have one commonality: they're bloody rare.

 

In explosives, the hard part usually isn't getting the thing to explode.  It's making sure it doesn't explode early.

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There is room for more Talents/Specs for adding to grenades I am thinking.

I believe the Demolitionist (sp?) has some good stuff for grenades, but I'd like to see a Grenadier in the Soldier book.

 

 

The Engineer:Saboteur is what you're looking for.  I'm hoping they don't do too much crossover stuff.

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