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Buddha7305

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Well, they did not show 2 of the Rogues side but all of the Imperial side.

I think thats mostly b/c for the rogues, you can see them fanned out (for the most part). But all of the imperials were hidden.

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As a rebel player, I don't like how TIE interceptors can have counter 4 with a re-roll, or how the basic tie fighter gets counter 2 with a reroll. :P

 

Its at this moment that I am glad TIE advanced don't have swarm.

 

Yes, but TAs with Dengar will have Counter 1. No reroll, and no Howlrunner buff, but still...

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As a rebel player, I don't like how TIE interceptors can have counter 4 with a re-roll, or how the basic tie fighter gets counter 2 with a reroll. :P

 

Its at this moment that I am glad TIE advanced don't have swarm.

 

Yes, but TAs with Dengar will have Counter 1. No reroll, and no Howlrunner buff, but still...

 

 

Counter one is manageable.  Gallant Haven, get over here!  (actually wait I think I lost that title card, so nevermind)

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A swarm of all named Imperial Villains seems like it would be nasty. Bossk hunts down the enemy counter ships (who buff him if he takes damage), IG88 assassinates the enemy aces, Boba just wreaks havoc against everything, and Dengar gives them all Counter (Counter 3 for IG, and Counter 1 plus an Accuracy for Bossk) while providing Intel to keep them from being pinned down.

 

It's 90 points, but is able to operate independently of Squadron commands, freeing your capital ships up to do other things.

Edited by PhantomFO

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Han Solo is pretty awesome as well. He'll find a place in all of my rebel fleets. Just to much flexibility there to pass up. He can always shoot first. You can still activate him with a squadron command, and he can move and shoot in the squadron phase. Big pile of terrific.

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Han Solo is pretty awesome as well. He'll find a place in all of my rebel fleets. Just to much flexibility there to pass up. He can always shoot first. You can still activate him with a squadron command, and he can move and shoot in the squadron phase. Big pile of terrific.

Actually he activates himself with his own squadron command which is even better.

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Han Solo is pretty awesome as well. He'll find a place in all of my rebel fleets. Just to much flexibility there to pass up. He can always shoot first. You can still activate him with a squadron command, and he can move and shoot in the squadron phase. Big pile of terrific.

Actually he activates himself with his own squadron command which is even better.

 

He is saying that he can activate at all times pretty much, from before ships move to a normal squadron command to the squadron phase and ALWAYS get to attack. 

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So Dengar, Soontir, and two TIE Advanceds (62 points, or just short of half your squadron allocation) seems like a potent anti-fighter force, especially in Imperial mirror matches. TAs draw fire from everyone but IG-88. Each time you shoot them, they get to shoot back with one blue die (0.5 damage, average). Soontir pegs an additional damage if the attacker was also engaged with him, and you have a fair bit of damage coming in while the opponent tries to chew through 10 squadron hull points on your escorts. Add in flight controllers on the front end, and that's a lot of damage coming in from just four squadrons.

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Han Solo is pretty awesome as well. He'll find a place in all of my rebel fleets. Just to much flexibility there to pass up. He can always shoot first. You can still activate him with a squadron command, and he can move and shoot in the squadron phase. Big pile of terrific.

Actually he activates himself with his own squadron command which is even better.

 

He is saying that he can activate at all times pretty much, from before ships move to a normal squadron command to the squadron phase and ALWAYS get to attack. 

 

Yeah. You can activate him first if it's beneficial (enemies are in range to attack, or to finish a shieldless enemy before they can activate and use an Engineering command), you can activate him with a squadron command during the Ship phase, or you can activate him during the Squadron phase. There will be lots of time where you don't want him to be the first ship to activate in a round.

Edited by PhantomFO

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So Dengar, Soontir, and two TIE Advanceds (62 points, or just short of half your squadron allocation) seems like a potent anti-fighter force, especially in Imperial mirror matches. TAs draw fire from everyone but IG-88. Each time you shoot them, they get to shoot back with one blue die (0.5 damage, average). Soontir pegs an additional damage if the attacker was also engaged with him, and you have a fair bit of damage coming in while the opponent tries to chew through 10 squadron hull points on your escorts. Add in flight controllers on the front end, and that's a lot of damage coming in from just four squadrons.

Like with any imperial fighter-combo-death-swarm, that is a whole lot of dead points is your opponent does not bring squadrons. And if he is he can just spread them out, so you can only deal with one without loosing your combo. I think Dengar is best use as escort for the Rhymer-ball. Giving those bombers counter and intel could make it a lot harder for the opponent to counter them.  

Edited by Duskwalker

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Boba, bossak and dengar with rymher and sone tie bombers could be nasty all shoot at your ship at range close or medium. They get counter 1 and keep moving. Vs needing the admiral c for that.

Really think imp squadron are far better even though they depend on cheap mass production and swarm. Vs better ship and training.

Was hoping dash or one of the rogue rebels would let them shoot at close to medium. Image a dash ball with Bs doing what rhymer does

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So Dengar, Soontir, and two TIE Advanceds (62 points, or just short of half your squadron allocation) seems like a potent anti-fighter force, especially in Imperial mirror matches. TAs draw fire from everyone but IG-88. Each time you shoot them, they get to shoot back with one blue die (0.5 damage, average). Soontir pegs an additional damage if the attacker was also engaged with him, and you have a fair bit of damage coming in while the opponent tries to chew through 10 squadron hull points on your escorts. Add in flight controllers on the front end, and that's a lot of damage coming in from just four squadrons.

Like with any imperial fighter-combo-death-swarm, that is a whole lot of dead points is your opponent does not bring squadrons. And if he is he can just spread them out, so you can only deal with one without loosing your combo. I think Dengar is best use as escort for the Rhymer-ball. Giving those bombers counter and intel could make it a lot harder for the opponent to counter them.  

 

 

This is always going to be the case, though it will be interesting to see how squadron-less builds perform after Wave II (which, I'm sure, will be a forum topic before long, now that all the cards have been spoiled...).

 

Dengar + Rhymer Ball is probably a better anti-ship build, but in a mirror match, this grouping will eat that Rhymer ball alive (far more anti-squadron output from the TAs over TIE Bombers, even Rhymer, though Soontir is the real difference: four anti-squadron/Counter 3 + rerolls, in addition to auto-damage every time a TA is attacked, assuming proper deployment). One could also add another 70 points in bomber squadrons to this group, so they're not mutually exclusive.

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I hate that you have to use these guys in the game to make squadrons remotely viable. What garbage. 

 

 

That attitude is what is garbage.  Squadrons are not only viable, but they're a part of a lot of winning Tournament lists.

 

 

Agreed. The argument assumes (1) squadrons are not viable now, and (2) squadrons aren't viable unless you run rogues/villains.

 

Most of the objections to squadrons have to do with efficiency, not viability (they are two different things). I can kill a ship with squadrons (some squadrons can kill some ships quite efficiently), but is it easier/more efficient/more flexible/etc. than the same points worth of ship/upgrades? Is it worth giving up a ship activation? At some level, efficiency will change as we transition to 400 point matches to 300 point matches, because squadrons be a smaller percentage of your total fleet, and the opportunity cost of including them will be lower (for imperial fleets, for example, a credible Rhymer Ball will no longer be the difference between three activations and four).

 

On viability, there's plenty of empirical evidence that squadrons can be viable currently, assuming proper squadron selection, squadron/ship synergy, strategy, deployment, battle tactics, etc. B-wings wrecking unprepared Glads is a thing, with or without Yavaris. So are eight-squadron Rhymer balls activated by dual VSD carriers. You can attack these fleets just like you'd attack squadron-less lists (and indeed, there are some on the forums that would encourage you to do so). Generally, one only has to do this once to get the point.

 

There's no question squadrons with Rogue will open up new avenues for fighters. So will Intel (eliminating fighter furballs), and any of the new special abilities. But to say you can't run any of the old fighters anymore is short sighted, I think. Adding some of the new squadron-specific upgrades (Boosted Comms, Independence title) to existing squadrons, plus increasing the point total overall, should breathe some added life into squadrons.

Edited by Rythbryt

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Also, I think this is likely to shake up the no-squadrons -meta (i.e. those people who do not run squadrons), as not running any blocking squadrons when these guys are about seems likely to be costly. Will be interesting to watch.

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