Suriel 619 Posted October 5, 2015 Tie Defender doesn't have a system slot It also doesn't have two Cannon slots. So it's not like you can give it the upgrades it's actually supposed to have either way. And there lays the problem. Any fix that takes an upgrade slot or increases cost of Defender is bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheRealStarkiller 3,446 Posted October 5, 2015 Tie Defender doesn't have a system slot It also doesn't have two Cannon slots. So it's not like you can give it the upgrades it's actually supposed to have either way. And there lays the problem. Any fix that takes an upgrade slot or increases cost of Defender is bad. The Defender should have Tractor Beam Ion Cannons The modification is taken for the 'fix' already: MKII Engine Leaving the Missile Slot. So h0w about a Special Defender-only Ion Cannon that uses up the Missile Slot - for 1 point only - no matter what it will do. So you could fly your Deltas like this: Delta 30 points Defender Ion Cannons 1 point Tractor Beam 1 point MKII Engine 1 point = 33 points Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cesamasec 219 Posted October 5, 2015 Please, please let there be an article today. I've been waiting to long, my tiny brain needs to be stimulated! 6 quasistellar, Tsiegtiez, TheRealStarkiller and 3 others reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FTS Gecko 24,189 Posted October 5, 2015 Tie Defender doesn't have a system slot It also doesn't have two Cannon slots. So it's not like you can give it the upgrades it's actually supposed to have either way. And there lays the problem. Any fix that takes an upgrade slot or increases cost of Defender is bad. The Defender should have Tractor Beam Ion Cannons The modification is taken for the 'fix' already: MKII Engine Leaving the Missile Slot. So h0w about a Special Defender-only Ion Cannon that uses up the Missile Slot - for 1 point only - no matter what it will do. So you could fly your Deltas like this: Delta 30 points Defender Ion Cannons 1 point Tractor Beam 1 point MKII Engine 1 point = 33 points That would work. Then add a Defender title card which allows you to make a free secondary weapon attack IF your primary hits. 2 Tsiegtiez and TheRealStarkiller reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarthEnderX 5,286 Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) And there lays the problem. Any fix that takes an upgrade slot or increases cost of Defender is bad. Okay but...I don't remember anyone saying that the Tractor Beam was meant to fix the Defender in the first place. The Defender should have Tractor Beam Ion Cannons The modification is taken for the 'fix' already: MKII Engine Leaving the Missile Slot. So h0w about a Special Defender-only Ion Cannon that uses up the Missile Slot - for 1 point only - no matter what it will do. Because Defenders had Tractor Beams, Ion Cannons and Missiles. The Defender shouldn't have to give up one of those systems to make room for another one, when it had all 3 in the lore. Then add a Defender title card which allows you to make a free secondary weapon attack IF your primary hits. Said before, but bears repeating, was not an ability limited to Defenders in the games, should not be limited to Defenders in this game. Edited October 5, 2015 by DarthEnderX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sierra Romeo Charlie 250 Posted October 5, 2015 Why not just give the Defender a special title that gives it a 2nd cannon slot at -3pts cost for the equipped cannon? Then you can get a Delta Defender w/ Tractor + Ion for 31pts. 32 if you need the MKII engine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FTS Gecko 24,189 Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Said before, but bears repeating, was not an ability limited to Defenders in the games, should not be limited to Defenders in this game. And it's been said before, but bears repeating, that the X-Wing Minatures Game is not a simulation of the X-Wing PC Game. Many of the abilities of ships in the PC games have been altered, modified or simply removed from the Miniatures Game altogether. Just because something operates a certain way in the PC games doesn't mean it necessarily needs to operate in exactly the same way in the Miniatures Game. And it certainly doesn't mean that ALL ships which operate a certain way in the PC game need to ALL operate exactly the same way in the Miniatures Game. And being able to fire a secondary weapon after a successful primary weapon attack would be an interesting, unique and pretty powerful buff to what is generally considered to be an underpowered, overcosted ship. Edited October 5, 2015 by FTS Gecko 2 Punning Pundit and arnoldrew reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Okapi 1,463 Posted October 5, 2015 A bit odd though. Why would the primary weapon need to hit first? Why not just copy the Y-Wing title? 1 ViscerothSWG reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FTS Gecko 24,189 Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) A bit odd though. Why would the primary weapon need to hit first? Why not just copy the Y-Wing title? a: to differentiate it from the Y-Wing's BTL-A4 mechanic and b: to simulate the effects of a ranging weapon/spotting rifle in game. Essentially, the ships primary would act as a targeting mechanism for it's secondary weapon - when the primary weapon hits its target, the secondary weapon fires. Edited October 5, 2015 by FTS Gecko 1 Tsiegtiez reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsiegtiez 1,608 Posted October 5, 2015 A bit odd though. Why would the primary weapon need to hit first? Why not just copy the Y-Wing title? a: to differentiate it from the Y-Wing's BTL-A4 mechanic and b: to simulate the effects of a ranging weapon/spotting rifle in game. Essentially, the ships primary would act as a targeting mechanism for it's secondary weapon - when the primary weapon hits its target, the secondary weapon fires. I love this idea. It strikes me as a sort of more-immediate Fire-Control System. And, I mean, in the sims, your targeting reticle went green if a hit was anticipated. This kind of mimics that too. Wasn't 100% accurate, so you're still rolling your ion attack, but I also never had any trouble nailing Y-Wings and YT freighters repeatedly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eagletsi111 1,115 Posted October 5, 2015 The defender needs a -1 pt title like BTL-A4, but only allows it to work on cannon's of 3 points or less. Must have a cannon equipped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raynuk 196 Posted October 5, 2015 A whole article on the tractorbeam please. FWIW... We know now that Armada's tractor beam reduces speed by 1. I wouldnt be surprised if it reduced agility by 1 as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PaulTiberius 1,103 Posted October 5, 2015 A whole article on the tractorbeam please. FWIW... We know now that Armada's tractor beam reduces speed by 1. I wouldnt be surprised if it reduced agility by 1 as well. Oh, good call. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heychadwick 11,360 Posted October 5, 2015 What time do they release NEWS? Are we past it? Will there be none today? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsiegtiez 1,608 Posted October 5, 2015 The News updates have been a bit all over the place (I've been F5ing every Monday and Friday for a couple weeks now haha) They tend to go out anywhere from 11 am EDT to 2 pm EDT as far as I've noticed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heychadwick 11,360 Posted October 5, 2015 Thanks! Eastern Standard Time? Don't know EDT. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsiegtiez 1,608 Posted October 5, 2015 Lol sorry, Eastern Daylight Time (rackum frackum daylight savings) 2 heychadwick and cvtheoman reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarthEnderX 5,286 Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) And it's been said before, but bears repeating, that the X-Wing Minatures Game is not a simulation of the X-Wing PC Game. And you say that as if it were a good thing. Many of the abilities of ships in the PC games have been altered, modified or simply removed from the Miniatures Game altogether. Yep. And all of those choices were bad. If you're going to bother recreating a ship from the lore, it should BE the way the ship is in the lore. Otherwise, what's the point? If you're going to take a ship from the lore and then make it completely different, you might as well just make up a new ship instead. a: to differentiate it from the Y-Wing's BTL-A4 mechanic and And why would it need to do that? Given that they are both representing the exact same ability. b: to simulate the effects of a ranging weapon/spotting rifle in game. Essentially, the ships primary would act as a targeting mechanism for it's secondary weapon - when the primary weapon hits its target, the secondary weapon fires. Except that the weapons are firing simultaneously(hence, firing them both in the same round), which means the lasers aren't ranging anything, because shooting the lasers is also firing the ion cannons. Edited October 5, 2015 by DarthEnderX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingedSpider 1,266 Posted October 5, 2015 And it's been said before, but bears repeating, that the X-Wing Minatures Game is not a simulation of the X-Wing PC Game. And you say that as if it were a good thing. Many of the abilities of ships in the PC games have been altered, modified or simply removed from the Miniatures Game altogether. Yep. And all of those choices were bad. If you're going to bother recreating a ship from the lore, it should BE the way the ship is in the lore. Otherwise, what's the point? If you're going to take a ship from the lore and then make it completely different, you might as well just make up a new ship instead. I think this is fine if the game is still fun and if the ships mostly resemble their lore counterparts. Reading the X-Wing series by Michael Stackpole, the ships use neat tricks like changing the angle of their shields or shifting shield energy to thrust or power that can't be done in X-Wing Miniatures. But I'm fine with this because these changes from the source material keep the X-Wing Miniatures game elegant and simple to understand. Adding more complications to the game just so the ships match the story counterparts perfectly means slowing down the game and making it harder to learn for new players; the priority of X-Wing should be providing a fun game first, matching lore second. 2 Baron Soontir Fel and Punning Pundit reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarthEnderX 5,286 Posted October 5, 2015 But I'm fine with this because these changes from the source material keep the X-Wing Miniatures game elegant and simple to understand. Adding more complications to the game just so the ships match the story counterparts perfectly means slowing down the game and making it harder to learn for new players That's fair, except in instances where FFG already added the mechanic to the game, but then arbitrarily decided to limit it to one ship, when it was something any ship could do, such as with the Y-Wing Title, or Miranda's ability. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tipperary 2,370 Posted October 5, 2015 assuming that excellent mechanics from one environment will be anywhere near excellent in another is pretty fallacious and demonstrates an underlying failure to grok game design 7 FTS Gecko, Baron Soontir Fel, ID X T and 4 others reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarthEnderX 5,286 Posted October 5, 2015 an underlying failure to grok game design Great, now I have to google a word. 1 cvtheoman reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kdubb 6,642 Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) It's coming soon guys... I can feel it... Edit: And by it, I mean a long awaited Star Wars-!!!... ... card game announcement... Edited October 5, 2015 by Kdubb 2 Punning Pundit and Admiral Deathrain reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FTS Gecko 24,189 Posted October 5, 2015 And you say that as if it were a good thing. It is. Yep. And all of those choices were bad. I disagree. And why would it need to do that? Given that they are both representing the exact same ability. Gamepolay mechanic. Except that the weapons are firing simultaneously(hence, firing them both in the same round), which means the lasers aren't ranging anything, because shooting the lasers is also firing the ion cannons. Gameplay mechanic. 4 maxam, Punning Pundit, Admiral Deathrain and 1 other reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarthEnderX 5,286 Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Gameplay mechanic. Oh bull****. You weren't describing a mechanic. You were using a real-world example of ranging weapons as a way to describe in-universe something you made up that didn't exist in the game OR the lore. You dismiss it when other people trying to reference the lore, but when it's your own personal fanfiction it's suddenly a "gameplay mechanic"? Edited October 5, 2015 by DarthEnderX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites