Roges and Villains Spoilers

[superbabs84321eu 71]

Same stuff now for anti-squadron. Made some corrections based on innate hero abilities. I made no corrections for swarm or counter.

 

Anti squadron average damage per point invested

• Nym 0,048
• Dengar 0,050
• Keyan 0,050
• H-6 Scurg 0,063
• Rhymer 0,078
• Jan Ors 0,079
• J5K 0,083
• Hwk-290 0,083
• Spray 0,083
• TIE Bomber 0,083
• Tycho 0,094
• IG-2000 0,095
• Luke 0,100
• Y-wing 0,100
• B-wing 0,107
• Soontir 0,111
• YT-1300 0,115
• Han 0,115
• Boba 0,115
• Howlrunner 0,125
• Aggressor 0,125
• YT-2400 0,125
• Dash 0,125
• TIE Advanced 0,125
• Wedge 0,132
• Mauler 0,133
• A-wing 0,136
• X-wing 0,154
• Vader 0,155
• Dutch 0,156
• Bossk 0,174
• TIE Interceptor 0,182
• TIE Fighter 0,188
• YV-666 0,200

Babs out!

Edited September 28, 2015 by superbabs84321eu

[Tranenturm 470]

Of course Boba Fett is only efficient on rounds when he starts his activation near a useful target.

@Tareq

I posted a list of all ships and generic squadrons in a thread called running the numbers. I leave out the named pilots only because their abilities so skew things that often these numbers can't really help. Even with the generics, how do you value intel? You can't really. Named pilots often have even more going on.

[Tranenturm 470]

Comparing my list to yours (where I do give a swarm value) really shows how much swarm bonuses the TIE fighter. It's already good without it. Even better with it.

[Vineheart01 6,403]

Dengar looks insanely powerful if you like dense fighter lists.

The ability to free up your fighters by making enemy fighters count as Heavy is nasty good.

Making basically youre entire squadron fleet have Counter I is just gravy goodness.

On top of that, he has Scatter, so hes capable of surviving a few hits unlike most named guys.

 

Havoc being able to simply say "That defense token...remove it!" on blue crits is sexy...even if its somewhat unlikely since only 1 die per attack. Also theres the first indication we assumed about the Raider's "engaged by 2 squadrons" rule...Grit

 

Im not sure if i like the YT-1300 unfortunately, which blows since i love that ship model (and i think everyone says the same lol), but Han Solo...i think i like that card quite a bit.

 

Was also hoping the basic ship would be free for either side to take, while the actual characters would be faction specific (since it would be kinda odd for Boba Fett to be on rebel side lol). That kinda blows, but o well. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by Vineheart01

[Duskwalker 607]

 

 

I'm liking Han Solo for the ability to move last in a turn, swooping into a fighter swarm and shooting it up, and then activating first next turn, shooting up the same fighters, and possibly swooping out again.

 

If he had bomber, and could do that to ships, it would be awesome.

He throws 4 dice even without bomber so it is still worth it. 

 

 

2 dice without bomber (bomber is irrelevant v squadrons)

 

which isn't bad at all, given Han Shoots First, it's just not great anti-ship fire for points

 

basically, it's a poor investment for the dice given; a great investment for securing kills that might have otherwise gotten away

 

4 dice, the idea is that you shoot twice. 

[Toburk 72]

Could somebody assist me to better understand some of the pts values? For example the aggressor and the YT 2400 are both 16 pts, yet the former is 3 spd 5 hp where the latter is 4 spd 6 hp. Both with the exact loadout regarding batteries and AS and the rogue keyword, so apparently the counter 1 is worth 1 spd 1 HP here? Another question would be jump master 5000 and HWK 290, both 12 pts, but now the counter 2 on the hawk is offset with a single less point of speed on th HWK, and the swarm keyword on the jump master - which is of questionable use with 2 blue AS. 

 

Not saying that something is wrong with the points, but would really like to achieve a better grasp on how FFG is pricing things pointswise. 

 

Both the Aggressor and IG-88 seem very under-powered. 

 

The Aggressor is a self-activating Interceptor with only slightly more HP in terms of cost, but is much slower, has a weaker counter, and most importantly actually, has less anti-squadron firepower despite costing much more.  Actually, now that I think about it for a moment, it's basically an expensive X-Wing without Escort or Bomber.

 

Iggy seems even worse.  Sure he gets the speed boost to get him were he needs to go, but with no damage boost his "assassination" ability isn't actually going to kill anything.  Not to mention that he only has 5hp and a single defensive token.

 

The YT-2400 is basically a faster, tougher, self activating X-Wing and might find a counter-bomber role.  Dash is crazy expensive.

 

It seems like FFG boxed themselves into only allowing a squadron to have four anti-squadron dice that do not do damage on a crit (barring the abilities of named squadrons), which means the firepower of squadrons does not really scale as their cost increases.

[MattShadowlord 1,494]

 

It seems like FFG boxed themselves into only allowing a squadron to have four anti-squadron dice that do not do damage on a crit (barring the abilities of named squadrons), which means the firepower of squadrons does not really scale as their cost increases.

 

 

That's not necessarily a bad thing, from a balance point of view.

 

If the firepower of an individual squadron rises too high, then it could invalidate other expensive squadrons that have good abilities but low hit points. 

[Vlad3theImpaler 514]

Here some computed efficiencies:

 

ASH Mod Point is the average amount of damage that is dealt to a ship per squadron point invested, modified (conservatively) for hero special abilities. As you can see B-wing and TIE Bomber are still the most efficient. Scurrg is however a nice alternative to the B, that is in fact more efficient than the Y-wing (interesting). Spray is less efficient than the Bomber, but because it has rogue, I think it will suit a purpose. Dash, and Han got bomber efficiency which is inferior to X and A-wings.

 

Anti-Ship Average Damage Per Point Invested

• Soontir 0,028
• Tycho 0,031
• Howlrunner 0,031
• Mauler 0,033
• YV-666 0,033
• IG-2000 0,036
• Dengar 0,038
• YT-1300 0,038
• Jan Ors 0,039
• J5K 0,042
• Hwk-290 0,042
• TIE Interceptor 0,045
• Aggressor 0,047
• YT-2400 0,047
• Vader 0,048
• Han 0,048
• Luke 0,050
• Dash 0,052
• Wedge 0,053
• Bossk 0,054
• X-wing 0,058
• Rhymer 0,063
• TIE Advanced 0,063
• Dutch 0,063
• TIE Fighter 0,063
• A-wing 0,068
• Nym 0,083
• Spray 0,083
• Y-wing 0,100
• Boba 0,106
• H-6 Scurg 0,109
• TIE Bomber 0,111
• Keyan 0,125
• B-wing 0,125

Babs out!

Cool lists.  Can you expound upon how you factored in hero abilities, both for the anti-ship and anti-squadron damage?

[Tranenturm 470]

Could somebody assist me to better understand some of the pts values? For example the aggressor and the YT 2400 are both 16 pts, yet the former is 3 spd 5 hp where the latter is 4 spd 6 hp. Both with the exact loadout regarding batteries and AS and the rogue keyword, so apparently the counter 1 is worth 1 spd 1 HP here? Another question would be jump master 5000 and HWK 290, both 12 pts, but now the counter 2 on the hawk is offset with a single less point of speed on th HWK, and the swarm keyword on the jump master - which is of questionable use with 2 blue AS. 

 

Not saying that something is wrong with the points, but would really like to achieve a better grasp on how FFG is pricing things pointswise.

 

Both the Aggressor and IG-88 seem very under-powered. 

 

The Aggressor is a self-activating Interceptor with only slightly more HP in terms of cost, but is much slower, has a weaker counter, and most importantly actually, has less anti-squadron firepower despite costing much more.  Actually, now that I think about it for a moment, it's basically an expensive X-Wing without Escort or Bomber.

 

Iggy seems even worse.  Sure he gets the speed boost to get him were he needs to go, but with no damage boost his "assassination" ability isn't actually going to kill anything.  Not to mention that he only has 5hp and a single defensive token.

 

The YT-2400 is basically a faster, tougher, self activating X-Wing and might find a counter-bomber role.  Dash is crazy expensive.

 

It seems like FFG boxed themselves into only allowing a squadron to have four anti-squadron dice that do not do damage on a crit (barring the abilities of named squadrons), which means the firepower of squadrons does not really scale as their cost increases.

Were you looking to invalidate the x-wing? If rogue doesn't carry a point cost with it, then any ship close to the same function would never be chosen. FFG does scale their damage with their increase in points, but not always to make super units. The X-wing goes from a red bomber to a black bomber with Luke or Wedge. But that increase is less about making the x-wing a better bomber and more about making sure Wedge and Luke retain some level of relevance vs ships as their costs increase.

So the aggressor is an xwing without escort but adds counter 1 and rogue. So assuming counter 1 roughly equals escort, we get rogue costing 3 points. (Ignoring the faction swap for a moment) you have the option of running an x-wing you can activate with a squadron token or pay 3 points for self activation. Which is better depends upon your play style and the fleet you're building. Some people are dying for rogue and will gladly pay the 3 point fee. Seems like you would rather play the x-wing (or whatever other wave 1 fighter or no-fighter). Had they costed rogue at 0, then we would never see another x-wing.

Personally, I'll still play mostly non-rogue. I never had big issues with how to play squadrons (I still had a learning curve, just never got frustrated). Rogues I'll use for very specific builds and purposes where I don't have the activation to spare but I do have the 3 points, OR I really need a self contained squadron that can go out on a flank for some reason. Therefore, I'm really glad non-rogue was kept point efficient. It rewards those players able to run squadrons with a minimum of squadron commands. Essentially a skill tester. The rogues allow for a play style where the player doesn't have to put as much thought into how the squadron will be and remain relevant which is great. It means more squadrons on the table. The Firespray has a perfectly valid anti-ship rating meaning it will get played. Two firesprays accompanying a Demolisher will really up the lethality of that ship and will require that other players counter with squadrons of their own. So even with rogue costing something, these ships have great value.

[Truegreek 170]

Could somebody assist me to better understand some of the pts values? For example the aggressor and the YT 2400 are both 16 pts, yet the former is 3 spd 5 hp where the latter is 4 spd 6 hp. Both with the exact loadout regarding batteries and AS and the rogue keyword, so apparently the counter 1 is worth 1 spd 1 HP here? Another question would be jump master 5000 and HWK 290, both 12 pts, but now the counter 2 on the hawk is offset with a single less point of speed on th HWK, and the swarm keyword on the jump master - which is of questionable use with 2 blue AS. 

 

Not saying that something is wrong with the points, but would really like to achieve a better grasp on how FFG is pricing things pointswise.

 

Both the Aggressor and IG-88 seem very under-powered. 

 

The Aggressor is a self-activating Interceptor with only slightly more HP in terms of cost, but is much slower, has a weaker counter, and most importantly actually, has less anti-squadron firepower despite costing much more.  Actually, now that I think about it for a moment, it's basically an expensive X-Wing without Escort or Bomber.

 

Iggy seems even worse.  Sure he gets the speed boost to get him were he needs to go, but with no damage boost his "assassination" ability isn't actually going to kill anything.  Not to mention that he only has 5hp and a single defensive token.

 

The YT-2400 is basically a faster, tougher, self activating X-Wing and might find a counter-bomber role.  Dash is crazy expensive.

 

It seems like FFG boxed themselves into only allowing a squadron to have four anti-squadron dice that do not do damage on a crit (barring the abilities of named squadrons), which means the firepower of squadrons does not really scale as their cost increases.

Were you looking to invalidate the x-wing? If rogue doesn't carry a point cost with it, then any ship close to the same function would never be chosen. FFG does scale their damage with their increase in points, but not always to make super units. The X-wing goes from a red bomber to a black bomber with Luke or Wedge. But that increase is less about making the x-wing a better bomber and more about making sure Wedge and Luke retain some level of relevance vs ships as their costs increase.

So the aggressor is an xwing without escort but adds counter 1 and rogue. So assuming counter 1 roughly equals escort, we get rogue costing 3 points. (Ignoring the faction swap for a moment) you have the option of running an x-wing you can activate with a squadron token or pay 3 points for self activation. Which is better depends upon your play style and the fleet you're building. Some people are dying for rogue and will gladly pay the 3 point fee. Seems like you would rather play the x-wing (or whatever other wave 1 fighter or no-fighter). Had they costed rogue at 0, then we would never see another x-wing.

Personally, I'll still play mostly non-rogue. I never had big issues with how to play squadrons (I still had a learning curve, just never got frustrated). Rogues I'll use for very specific builds and purposes where I don't have the activation to spare but I do have the 3 points, OR I really need a self contained squadron that can go out on a flank for some reason. Therefore, I'm really glad non-rogue was kept point efficient. It rewards those players able to run squadrons with a minimum of squadron commands. Essentially a skill tester. The rogues allow for a play style where the player doesn't have to put as much thought into how the squadron will be and remain relevant which is great. It means more squadrons on the table. The Firespray has a perfectly valid anti-ship rating meaning it will get played. Two firesprays accompanying a Demolisher will really up the lethality of that ship and will require that other players counter with squadrons of their own. So even with rogue costing something, these ships have great value.

I wouldn't go so far in as saying rogue allows for less skill, but it does allow for more variation in upgrades while taking squadrons. Your lists won't be as forced to have dedicated carriers this way, which could definitely be worth a 3 point tax. Plus its alot easier to justify spending 50 points on firesprays over a raider than 50 points of tie fighters. (Ignoring rhymer of course)

[cynanbloodbane 3,469]

It also lets you increase the size of a Rhymer ball without increasing its carrier dedication.

Rhymer & company moves and hits on a squadren command, rogues move up to hit with Rhymer range.

Edited September 29, 2015 by cynanbloodbane

[ficklegreendice 34,363]

rogues also give you a nice 2nd wave if the squadron v squadron aspect of armada takes off again

 

after slamming into X with your Ties, you can take it easy with commands as the Firesprays will saunter up and contribute all on their own