Roges and Villains Spoilers

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I'm thinking this is making running a squadron free fleet rather...dicy. The penalty now can be pretty minor, but if this is accurate, means that it's a very bad tactical decision.

Not sure what you mean. . . Dengar, Howlrunner is 36 points and 2 Interceptors is 58. That kills ALL squadrons. . . Kills them dead. . .

[ficklegreendice 34,363]

 

I'm thinking this is making running a squadron free fleet rather...dicy. The penalty now can be pretty minor, but if this is accurate, means that it's a very bad tactical decision.

Not sure what you mean. . . Dengar, Howlrunner is 36 points and 2 Interceptors is 58. That kills ALL squadrons. . . Kills them dead. . .

 

 

I think he's talking about all-ship builds

 

kinda hard to run them now with completely independent firesprays

 

they don't look like much, but they'll tango with shrimps FAR better than GSDs will

Edited September 27, 2015 by ficklegreendice

[Stasy 2,502]

I'm thinking this is making running a squadron free fleet rather...dicy. The penalty now can be pretty minor, but if this is accurate, means that it's a very bad tactical decision.

Not sure what you mean. . . Dengar, Howlrunner is 36 points and 2 Interceptors is 58. That kills ALL squadrons. . . Kills them dead. . .

These new guys are considered, by definition, squadrons. If you're not running some of these guys or straight up fighters, you're risking quite a bit. That's all I meant.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I'm thinking this is making running a squadron free fleet rather...dicy. The penalty now can be pretty minor, but if this is accurate, means that it's a very bad tactical decision.

Not sure what you mean. . . Dengar, Howlrunner is 36 points and 2 Interceptors is 58. That kills ALL squadrons. . . Kills them dead. . .

 

I think he's talking about all-ship builds

 

kinda hard to run them now with completely independent firesprays

 

they don't look like much, but they'll tango with shrimps FAR better than GSDs will

Ahhh my eyes glazed over the word "free". All these months with people crying over squadrons. . .

I also missed that Han activates in the start of the ship phase. . . Which means people can now stack their opponents Tarkin ability if they have initiative. . . Force them getting a token they may not of wanted. . .

[ScottieATF 2,867]

I'm thinking this is making running a squadron free fleet rather...dicy. The penalty now can be pretty minor, but if this is accurate, means that it's a very bad tactical decision.

Not sure what you mean. . . Dengar, Howlrunner is 36 points and 2 Interceptors is 58. That kills ALL squadrons. . . Kills them dead. . .

I'm not sure what you mean. You just detailed 58 points worth of Squadrons, the poster your quoting cited "Squadron free builds". 58 points of Squadrons would not qualify as a Squadron free build.

Edit: Cleary I started typing late.

Edited September 27, 2015 by ScottieATF

[DiabloAzul 2,636]

I think the H-6 bomber just obsoleted B-Wings.

 

And Dengar + Vader + Rhymer is my new favorite thing.

 

But that aside... did anyone notice the new card reveal in the first image?

 

Engineering Captain (officer upgrade, 6 points?): Before you reveal a command, you may change that command to a Repair command.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I'm thinking this is making running a squadron free fleet rather...dicy. The penalty now can be pretty minor, but if this is accurate, means that it's a very bad tactical decision.

Not sure what you mean. . . Dengar, Howlrunner is 36 points and 2 Interceptors is 58. That kills ALL squadrons. . . Kills them dead. . .

These new guys are considered, by definition, squadrons. If you're not running some of these guys or straight up fighters, you're risking quite a bit. That's all I meant.

I misread what you put out. Sorry.

I agree with you 100%.

Now do these invalidate current squadrons. . . Ohhh tough. . . The YT-1300 is now my go to Escort for B-Wings

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I think the H-6 bomber just obsoleted B-Wings.

 

And Dengar + Vader + Rhymer is my new favorite thing.

 

But that aside... did anyone notice the new card reveal in the first image?

 

Engineering Captain (officer upgrade, 6 points?): Before you reveal a command, you may change that command to a Repair command.

I think I know what Wing Captain does now. . .

[ficklegreendice 34,363]

 

 

I'm thinking this is making running a squadron free fleet rather...dicy. The penalty now can be pretty minor, but if this is accurate, means that it's a very bad tactical decision.

Not sure what you mean. . . Dengar, Howlrunner is 36 points and 2 Interceptors is 58. That kills ALL squadrons. . . Kills them dead. . .

These new guys are considered, by definition, squadrons. If you're not running some of these guys or straight up fighters, you're risking quite a bit. That's all I meant.

 

 

indeed, though to be air you were already risking everything by running into yavaris Bs

 

 

for now, though, too much hype!

 

YV-666: "rogue" anti-squadron specialist with amazing health & anti-squadron to some horrible speed (heavily mitigated by Rogue) and heavy. The YV-666 is sort of like the land-mine the B-wing is, only versus squadrons but not as good. Those dice are going to be hard to ignore, but they're all the ship has going for it. Most likely useful for escorting big, lumbering star destroyers

 

unparalleled anti-squadron and health per points paid, but will have to kill squadrons because they cannot engage. Speed 2 necessitates the enemy come for you, but it's also not nearly as much of a drawback thanks to Rogue.

 

Bouncers for ISD and/or Rhymer?

 

Bossk: this guy seems "plug-in-and-play." Solid all rounder with rogue, no heavy; flexible. One problem: only one brace token. Highly vulnerable for cost, especially against flight controllered enemies

 

mini-raider

 

Firespray: the double tie-bomber. Far more frail per-point against squadrons, but can actually kill and engage them on their own. Rogue and speed 3 gives a high measure of independence coupled with all-rounder stats, but they will fold to dedicated anti-squadron.

 

command independent bomber to tackle threats that scare ships

 

Boba Fett: not as "plug-in-and-play" as bossk but still flexible. Problem is in the price tag and the all rounder stats. Will he be worth it? That rests entirely upon his ability, which clashes quite a bit with Rhymer.

 

an amazing ability on wheels

 

Jumpmaster5000: gotta be honest, I think you'd all rather use cherianeau

 

intel with engines; pathetic stats

 

Dengar: with howlrunner you get counter 4 interceptors...wtf? Actually makes bombers not entirely garbage against enemy ships, and intel + black die might make him a welcome part of the Rhymer ball.

 

pure anti-squadron support revolving around Intel and Counter; might have select utility with Bombers

 

Aggressor: jack-of-all trades imperial Rogue with counter 1. Trades some of the firespray's anti-ship capacity for additional anti-squadron utility. Might be decent to mix and match the two classes of squadron?

 

jack of all trades Rogue

 

IG-88: boy, I thought Darth Vader was going to be the character-squadron assassin. Note, however, only 1 swarm token. Hope you kill something valuable with him.

 

character squadron assassin; anti-squadron 

 

HWK-290: like the Jumpmaster, it's intel on wheels

 

intel and little else

 

Jan Ors: probably still auto-include as we imagined when she was spoiled. Intel and damage reduction will go a long way towards saving your ships' asses

 

stupidly powerful squadron support

 

YT-2400: jack of all trades rogue. Higher speed and lack of counter seem to indicate it's very slightly more anti-ship than the aggressor

 

jack of all trades Rogue

 

Dash Rendar: still can't read that ****

 

Scurgg (lol) H-6 Bomber: it's an extra specialized B-wing. Honestly speaking, I couldn't tell you how useful Grit is going to be because it could very well end up being a worthless POS in a lot of scenarios.

 

otherwise, the greatest draw of the H-6 over the B is speed 3 and extra health. If you're not running yavaris, it's probably the ship for you (poor Y-wing )

 

with Yavaris? well, she doesn't care about your speed and the B-wing's 3 anti-squadron has proven quite useful with the double tap.

 

the role's in the title, ladies and gents

 

Nym: you feel lucky? well, do ya, punk?

 

notice he (I think that's a he?) loses heavy

 

Now this guy, Yavaris likes (double tap = double the chances of ability). Can't say, however, that I particularly like gambling over the incredible reliability of a squadron such as Keyan

 

YT-1300: a chunk of health with engines; the B-wing escort. The new meta of Wave 2 might necessitate a few of these guys taking the brunt for your Bs when all the new shinies pounce on them. Their offense is, sadly, pathetic

 

your B-wing's meatshields, keep enemies off them while you clear with capital-ship anti-squadron and/or Yavaris double taps

 

Han freaking Solo: expensive as all hell, but you gotta give the man credit

 

Han ALWAYS shoots first

 

 

 

 

 

For me, personally, it's probably coming down to YT-1300s + B-wings + Jan Ors as the new B-wings + Yavaris. That's a tough nut to crack

 

the Scurggs (lol) are going to need another type of fleet to lead them due to their greater expense getting in the way of incorporating Jans and their speed going to waste following YT-1300s around.

 

the MC-80s may provide just the ticket, especially the command variant threatening 8 bloody anti-ship dice with one command

Edited September 27, 2015 by ficklegreendice

[Lyraeus 4,759]

H-6's let you use X-Wings with them. They are good but I don't think they replace the B-Wing. They are Heavy which is bad. They can't stop squadrons like a B-Wing can.

Oh, trust me, using B-Wings to engage after they have done their job has saved my ships in both of my last games.

Iskander4000 can attest to thus.

[DiabloAzul 2,636]

Han freaking Solo: expensive as all hell, but you gotta give the man credit

 

Han ALWAYS shoots first

LOL

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Han freaking Solo: expensive as all hell, but you gotta give the man credit Han ALWAYS shoots first

LOL

That was my reaction as well

[ScottieATF 2,867]

Dash seem to get a re-roll per Ship and Squadron within range. Seems pretty clear with a number of poster agreeing.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Dash seem to get a re-roll per Ship and Squadron within range. Seems pretty clear with a number of poster agreeing.

It is good to note that there are no actual limits on rerolls so I wonder if this is allowed to just continuing to reroll of you are surrounded.. . .

[ficklegreendice 34,363]

the Scurggs (lol) + X-wings + Ors could lead to a faster rebel blob. Only problem is it's more expensive and less anti-squadron. Perhaps the speed is worth it, however.

 

 

or, it could come down entirely to Grit

 

 

see, Grit's weird but I think you can make better use of it the more spread out you are. Either your opponent piles and murders one bomber, or they attempt to scatter squadrons to engage. With Grit and a decent speed 3 (plus something as huge as the mon cal) you can probably secure a fair bit of flexibility when throwing out bombers

 

 

 

we'll probably have Blob-B (yt-1300, b-wings, jans) form a phalanx (more of a clump, really) between a bunch of Nebs and just roll it up the table

 

Blob-S (X-wings, Scurrgs (lol), Jans) will probably be more at home with assault frigates and mon cals

 

my modest guess, anyway

 

 

 

 

now, the most curious of the lot are these new Rogue fellas. They're pretty dang expensive for what they do, and if they eat a squadron command full of anti-squadron they're not going to last all that long. On the other hand, it is one powerful ability due to the flexibility involved.

 

Just not sure where the Aggressor and YT-2400 fit in in particular, however. They're not terribly impressive against either ships or squadrons.

 

I do like the YT-2400 more, however. With speed 4, I can see it being used in a list that otherwise doesn't care about squadrons, if only to engage or put the hurt on opposing bombers.

 

Firesprays, while not as awe inspiring as B-wings, at least pack 2-anti ship Bomber dice completely free of squadron commands (save em for navigates to get those slow destroyers turning!)

Edited September 27, 2015 by ficklegreendice

[Viratin 258]

This is absolutely perfect for me. As an Imperial player who enjoys squadrons and their tactical usefulness, but doesn't want to build a ship directly to support them, these guys are absolutely perfect. What I really like is I don't feel like I have to spam any of them. Just buying one box of these guys and mixing and matching what's in there will be more than enough for me. 

 

Thoughts when I look at these cards:

 

Bosk (First unique without 2 defensive tokens I've seen. But ****, anyone getting close to him is gonna get Bosk'd.)

 

YV-66 (I was sorta 'meh' at first. Great attack, but with only 2 speed and Heavy, it's gotta maneuver a lot. But, at only 15 points, you can pair it with something else that can do the pinning for you. Maybe a Raider with Instigator? )

 

Boba (Oh hey, you! Yeah, the Nebulon with the juicy side arc. You take a damage. Now I'm gonna bomb your unshielded side arc.)

 

Firespray (18 points for a Rogue Bomber is awesome. Great flanking unit, methinks. Blues aren't as nice as black, but still, that's 75% chance to hit on both dice then with Bomber.)

 

Dengar (Old toilet-paper head looks like a great support piece.)

 

IG 88 (Well, guess there's another guy with only 1 defensive token. Not sure I like him as much. Ignoring escort and counter is alright, but I wanna kill that x-wing anyway.)

 

Nym (I got your nose! Oh, wait, it's not your nose... it's the brace on your ISD. Oops~)

 

Dash (@%#$&$%^$%@*^$%^#$@%@%@ <-- about as much as I can understand)

 

Han (I do what I want.)

[ficklegreendice 34,363]

the thing that a lot of people get tripped up about squadrons is you don't have to directly build to support them

 

 

hell, wana know the best way to support bombers against ships? bring bigger ship guns

 

 

I'm 100% serious, apart from ridiculous crap like yavaris you really don't need squadron-centric upgrades to make squadrons relevant V ships you just need the commands

 

 

well...not anymore with Rogue though I don't think any but the firespray and bossk are anywhere near cost efficient enough for the job

 

 

There's also Solo, who is stupidly inefficient and not a bomber, but he activates before your ship's fat ass and can skirt around to w.e arc he feels like before shooting

 

Dash is a bomber who hits as hard as a Y-wing with a re-roll apparently. If he's 26 points like he sorta seems to be, though, I can't imagine using him over solo.

Edited September 27, 2015 by ficklegreendice

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I have not built to support squadrons since my last time out with Yavaris.

I just try and make sure that I don't go over my total squadron command value

[Lyraeus 4,759]

well...not anymore with Rogue though I don't think any but the firespray and bossk are anywhere near cost efficient enough for the job

 

 

There's also Solo, who is stupidly inefficient and not a bomber, but he activates before your ship's fat ass and can skirt around to w.e arc he feels like before shooting

YT-2400 is 16 points with Rogue. That's not bad with 4 blue dice and a a black. .

13 points for the YT-1300 is ok as well. . . It is slow but all that B-Wing practice might just pay off

[ficklegreendice 34,363]

funny story:

 

Adar Talar by himself will give your Rogue two squadron "commands"

 

still don't like him, though. Bloody expensive bugger

 

 

 

 

 

 

anyway, at this point I'm not seeing much reason to go over 1 RvV box until I get a better angle on the B-wing mk2

 

the YT-1300 sounds like a promising meta call and the YT-2400 is like an overpriced A-wing or X-wing you never have to command, but other than them and the Firespray I'm going all in on Jan and possibly Han 

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

oh and, I forgot the 2-squadrons per player activation rule

 

 

might want to run Rogues in even numbers (except Han cause Han don't give a ****)

Edited September 27, 2015 by ficklegreendice

[Swusn 461]

Well, looks like Han is an auto include and Nym is a strong maybe.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Han is EXPENSIVE! Good don't get me wrong but he costs a lot. . . He also does not have bomber so against ships he has a man of 2 damage. . . he is not the squadron killer that Vader is

[ficklegreendice 34,363]

wouldn't call Han auto-include; just a very safe and solid investment

 

if anti-squadron becomes the name of the game, Interceptors will obliterate him

 

Nym is also far too dicey for auto-include status

 

 

 

I do wonder, however, if Rogues will become the go-to filler option

 

CR-90a or Raider-1 --> 44

 

two generic Rogues --> 32 (36 for sprays)

 

yt-2400 + han/dash --> 42

 

Spray + boba --> 44 (direct comparison)

 

 

obviously, Rogue anti-squadron will be a lot higher than the CR-90 but spray + boba is interesting because they're a combined blueblueblueblack discounting Boba's ability. That's the Raider-2's front arc.

 

the rules regarding ships and the rules regarding squadrons make a direct comparison difficult, however. Boba + Spray have greater range than a Raider due to move, then shoot but the Raider can't get engage (although it can engage with Instigator and that's just funny)

[Swusn 461]

Han is EXPENSIVE! Good don't get me wrong but he costs a lot. . . He also does not have bomber so against ships he has a man of 2 damage. . . he is not the squadron killer that Vader is

 

Good point, I did not notice he does not have Bomber.

[superbabs84321eu 71]

Don't underestimate the Intel ships. Fly a jumpMaster along with your spray's and no one is gonna do a thing about you attacking capitals. Your spray's have rogue so they can act independently, and jumpMaster grants you Intel, which allows your spray's to just fly past interceptors (without them attacking you!) unless they get a squadron command. So from this point forward, having a few a-wing squads/interceptors as AS is just not gonna cut it anymore!

 

Babs out!

Edited September 27, 2015 by superbabs84321eu