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Krynn007

So I just played the 4 ywing tlt list

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Frankly flying it didn't seem all that fun and I felt kind of bad for springing that on him, but wanted to see how it flew.

 

 

Yeah, not all squads will fit each person's play style. This is hardly a mark against it. 

 

About that 32 HPs. Do you know how easy it is to burn through them with a bunch of high attacks. And I still maintain that mixed squads are going to be stronger than 4 TLTs, especially against 4 TLTs. 

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Frankly flying it didn't seem all that fun and I felt kind of bad for springing that on him, but wanted to see how it flew.

And I still maintain that mixed squads are going to be stronger than 4 TLTs, especially against 4 TLTs.

Yes, I agree. However, it's one thing if a list is strong or not fun to fly or fly against

For me flying 4tlt Ys is boring because there's not much challenge to it in my opinion.

Either you get (hard) countered or you feel borderline op, none of ehich is really fun for Me

And flying against it can be decent fun but with most lists it's very tedious aka not fun.

If all they wanted to do is limit 2 ship builds they could've just limited it to 2 TLT ships per List as Sozin suggested. I think that would've reduced 2ship lists with fat turrets alot without leading to the situation we have now.

Edited by Celes

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And in all honesty it wasn't that fun.

My opponent wasn't prepared for it and conceded during the game because he knew he wasn't going to win.

Frankly flying it didn't seem all that fun and I felt kind of bad for springing that on him, but wanted to see how it flew.

There really isn't much thought if any needed to fly this.

Idk but I am a little disappointed with this.

It's a strong list yes

All same ps.

Does decent dmg

A lot of hp

Etc. Etc

But even flying it, I can easily see how this would not be fun to fly against.

You have to get into that range one but even so a smart player will spread them put so he'll alway have something shooting

I know I know the age old argument, build something new, sensors jammer, autothrusters etc etc, and they have a weak spot

Even so sensors jammer and autothrusters isn't always going to work

I roll 3 hits you change one to a focus but one hit still gets through, or some with autothrusters eventually fel will have no more focus or evades and with 8 consecutive attack he's bound to roll all focus/blanks when out of modifier

As was stated in another thread it's not just the fact that it does do good dmg, it wasn't fun for my opponent to sit there and watch me roll 32 dice, plus have to eat through 32 hp,

I was really sick of the two ship meta and turrets to be honest, but is this something worse?

I wonder at the next store championship how many people will fly 4ys

I mean instead of trying to come up with ways to beat it, along with other lists, for some it just be easier to fly four ys

Then it's just a dice fest.

I mean if you want to win it's a good strong list.

Not unbeatable I'm sure but it does work well, so I can see the desire to use it

I haven't flown against it, but I can see what some people mean.

 

In other words (if i may boil your post down to a fine point?) You love the game and do not like seeing it cheapened with the hot new gimmick min-maxed to the point that it makes the experience feel dirty and not fun at all.

 

STAR WARS is fun and so is this game when cool people are playing it.

 

Nice!

:)

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To everyone that hates turrets: Now you'll know what it's like to drown in turrets, to autolose to a child smearing ice cream on his face. Ha ha.

And in all honesty it wasn't that fun.

My opponent wasn't prepared for it and conceded during the game because he knew he wasn't going to win.

Frankly flying it didn't seem all that fun and I felt kind of bad for springing that on him, but wanted to see how it flew.

There really isn't much thought if any needed to fly this.

Idk but I am a little disappointed with this.

It's a strong list yes

All same ps.

Does decent dmg

A lot of hp

Etc. Etc

But even flying it, I can easily see how this would not be fun to fly against.

You have to get into that range one but even so a smart player will spread them put so he'll alway have something shooting

I know I know the age old argument, build something new, sensors jammer, autothrusters etc etc, and they have a weak spot

Even so sensors jammer and autothrusters isn't always going to work

I roll 3 hits you change one to a focus but one hit still gets through, or some with autothrusters eventually fel will have no more focus or evades and with 8 consecutive attack he's bound to roll all focus/blanks when out of modifier

As was stated in another thread it's not just the fact that it does do good dmg, it wasn't fun for my opponent to sit there and watch me roll 32 dice, plus have to eat through 32 hp,

I was really sick of the two ship meta and turrets to be honest, but is this something worse?

I wonder at the next store championship how many people will fly 4ys

I mean instead of trying to come up with ways to beat it, along with other lists, for some it just be easier to fly four ys

Then it's just a dice fest.

I mean if you want to win it's a good strong list.

Not unbeatable I'm sure but it does work well, so I can see the desire to use it

I haven't flown against it, but I can see what some people mean.

What was your opponent flying? Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer

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Well as I mentioned even flying it didn't seem that fun.

Like I said little to no thought was required when setting dials.

Every round I had my dials set rather fast as I didn't have to put in a lot of thought of what I was going to do.

Yes, and all that was true because you were facing someone who didn't know about the list, who didn't know how to fly against it and who was flying a not-super-durable 2-ship ace list that'd likely get eaten alive by any popular meta list.

This "TLT spam is an auto-fly list" meme is SUCH a load. Fly formation and risk your doughnut holes overlapping? Or spread out and risk one or two of your TLTs getting battered ŵith the rest unable to respond? Whatever option you choose, you'd better be right because you're probably moving first and you've exactly no post-maneuvering repositioning to get you out of trouble if you screw up. Yes, it's easy to fly of your opponent just strolls into R2 without any understanding of the power of massed TLTs, But then most lists are easy to fly if your opponent doesn't understand them.

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Well as I mentioned even flying it didn't seem that fun.

Like I said little to no thought was required when setting dials.

Every round I had my dials set rather fast as I didn't have to put in a lot of thought of what I was going to do.

Yes, and all that was true because you were facing someone who didn't know about the list, who didn't know how to fly against it and who was flying a not-super-durable 2-ship ace list that'd likely get eaten alive by any popular meta list.

This "TLT spam is an auto-fly list" meme is SUCH a load. Fly formation and risk your doughnut holes overlapping? Or spread out and risk one or two of your TLTs getting battered ŵith the rest unable to respond? Whatever option you choose, you'd better be right because you're probably moving first and you've exactly no post-maneuvering repositioning to get you out of trouble if you screw up. Yes, it's easy to fly of your opponent just strolls into R2 without any understanding of the power of massed TLTs, But then most lists are easy to fly if your opponent doesn't understand them.

You see, now this statement is false.

You make it sound as if you know the person I played with and assume he doesn't know what he is doing.

First off yes his list wasn't prepared for the tlt ywing, but he knows how to play the game and quite well.

He also understand how the tlt works. He tried his best to approach it but it just wasn't going to go well. I could see that and so could he

When he decided to quit it wasn't really because he was losing

He still had both his ships on the board. It was he didn't have fun flying against it.

He knew the outcome early on and why bother? Marinda only lost her shields, but as he tries to close in, she was going to get shredded

You see my whole point isn't because this list is unbeatable which most seem to focus on. I'm sure it can be beaten in more ways than one

Its the fact that it's just plain not fun to fly against.

I've heard all the stories from here and now people I play with feel the same as many on here do

One of the aspect my friends love about this game is the manuevering and trying to guess what your opponent is going to do, and in a sense turret wing is just fly around in circles

I worry what this may do for some players. If they go to a tournament and ready or not see a bunch of 4 tlt y lists and get tabled, could that turn off players?

That or they'll just fly the same thing.

I'm not saying that will happen.

Yes I know some of you like the challenge and will work hard to beat it and etc, but not everyone is like that, to some they may just say it's not fun and go do something else, which imo is bad for the game

Hey I'm not a psychic so I'm not saying it will happen and I hope it doesn't, but again, my point, I can see how it wouldn't be fun being on the other side of the table.

Because once one of your ships gets in that zone you have to sit there and roll against 32 dice, slowly taking your shields off one by one.

Next round while your trying to get one of his ships in arc and without getting into range of all 4 of them, and possibly do it again.

A side note

I did experience it once but in the form of four HWKs.

He set it up where they literally just turned and flew In a circle at his starting area. Once Maarek got in range he died.

Nothing I could do.

It was on vassal, so it wasn't timed game.

If I didn't do anything he'd just keep flying in circles

But at least he apologized at the start of the game as he was testing it out, see how it would work, and it worked well, and honestly I just didn't have fun.

Which is why he apologized

Edited by Krynn007

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But you are projecting your feelings onto others. "Not fun" is a very nebulous thing. How many people have complained about turrets being "unfun", but I have tons of fun games against Falcons. You are not wrong, but you are only right for yourself. 

 

I had a game where I had Carnor riding a ships tail till it died. I don't think that was necessarily fun for my opponent. 

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I think 4 TLTs are boring as hell.  I think they're very beatable if you have a list that jousts decently.  If they're in tight you should be able to bully the hell out of them with bumps if they loosen up you can drastically reduce the focus fire potential by going to the soft spots,  Y-wings do not have a way to quickly change direction in short times so if they scatter they're going to scatter hard, especially in any kind of traffic.

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So I spent the evening flying against the 4 scum Ys TLTs I won a tourney with a few weeks ago. Unhinged astromechs. Its terrible to play against. I put up alot of things against it. Palpmobile with vader and fel, Poe with Coran and a Z, vader with 3 tempests and then 4 tempest with accuracy correctors.

The best thing was the 4 tempest. They can trade ship for ship almost. It was a very frustrating evening. Iam not saying it cant be beat but the relentless attacks even with just a focus are terrible.

I really truly think FFG may have missed something here with these. Id rather play against fat han, super dash, or a tanky kinkirk build anyday.

Id love to move forward and come up with something in what will be the new meta to beat these and be strong against the rest of the field.

They nerfed the phantom and this feels even worse to play against.

Edited by AiRSiK

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I won a few games with just 2 B-Wings, a TLT Y-Wing and a minelayer K-Wing. Not a squad that is made as a counter and I still didn't have a hard or unfun time. When I pulled out the Sensor Jammer Brobots the game became an unfun one sided slaughter. So if you want to discourage TLT usage in your area just smack them with that to show them just how vulnerable they are.

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I like this thread. OP posted with actual game experience, and explained why he doesn't like the list because of his findings.

 

I look forward to fighting TLT swarms myself, and because my friends REALLY like Interceptor lists, I look forward to using a 50/50 B-wing spam / TLT horde in Epic.

 

BBYY also sounds like a really good list.

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Amen to that DAPB, I'm actually pretty excited overall because of TLT. It has some great implications for ships that weren't quite competitive (twice-underlined the named HWKs) and makes for some solid list filler or support. I'm really enjoying a pair of TLT K-Wings alongside an Ace pilot or moderate Large ship (PtL/BB-8 Poe Dameron and my old friend HLC/RecSpec Fringer are the top of my list right now), but two FCS Daggers and a pair of TLT Golds feels potent, or maybe two AS Blues and both Golds get R2 Astros. Options! Solid against TLTs, but not nearly as vulnerable up close. I think I'd prefer the FCS Daggers for use against other TLT carriers or generic filler, but I think it's really a matter of personal preference there.

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On the flipside, playing against it CAN be fun when you've prepped for playing against it. I've enjoyed counter building and counter playing.

What have your effective counters been so far? The most effective ones for me have been the TLT Warden (usually a pair) or just running two PS4 Y-Wings.

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On the flipside, playing against it CAN be fun when you've prepped for playing against it. I've enjoyed counter building and counter playing.

What have your effective counters been so far? The most effective ones for me have been the TLT Warden (usually a pair) or just running two PS4 Y-Wings.

 

Give the Brobots Sensor Jammers/Thrusters and TLTs won't hit anything. Spam stuff that is more efficient like PS 3 TIE Fighters or some B-Wings, maybe AC Advanceds. Have a huge alpha strike that is guaranteed to take out one befor it gets to shoot. Guri becomes crazy when you combine Sensor Jammers, Thrusters and Lone Wolf. And that are just the list building counters, even a Fat Decimator that boosts into the holes isn't completely lost (although you have to do some serious piloting to get that done). Soontir still enjoys Thrusters, 4 dice and his never ending supply of focus.

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I'm not sold on the Sensor Jammer on a ship that would really rather have more flexibility out of its Sensor slot; it's an upgrade I take pretty seriously, and IG-88 and Guri both for me prefer FCS or Advanced Sensors. Autothrusters do just fine against TLTs, for the most part, even on a 2AGI ship like Poe Dameron's T70. It isn't supposed to be impenetrable; the 'thrusters just buy you enough time to off one or two TLTs. 

 

Guri in particular loves the TLT on a Y-Wing or HWK because she can AS->Boost and then manoeuvre into that Range 1 dead zone, gets a bonus Focus, and lights them up. And if you get lucky or plan ahead, she might even be able to Focus or TL that same turn for extra damage or defence, although Lone Wolf does help with that a lot.

 

I used to prefer the HLC/FCS combo on my Brobot lists, but with TLTs and a handful of other things going on I think I'm going to make the switch to AS/Manglers. Possibly AC/Manglers if I don't feel like fielding IG-88B (and the C/D pairing is looking more and more effective by the day). AS->Boost->free Evade from IG-88C is going to do wonders against TLTs anyway, and doing that and following with a hard 3-Turn SLoop from D will make the manoeuvre game even more in the bots' favour.

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So - a lot of theory crafting about what works, but who has actually played against a 4BTL TLT Y-wing squad and won?

 

The last list I ran across had 2 PS4 Hired Guns and 2 PS2 Syndicate Thugs.  He did not worry about stress too much, but ran far enough apart so he usually had at least 1 or 2 ships outside of Range 1 to use the TLT.  K-Turn made him effective on turning and shooting the next round.

 

Assuming an experienced player is running this, it's that much harder to defend against and dice are fickle enough that they will fail when they are most needed.

With Worlds coming up Nov 4, I am interested to see how it comes out.

 

Will 4 Y-wings make Top 4 or 8?  Will a Tie Swarm be in the mix?  K-wings?

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So - a lot of theory crafting about what works, but who has actually played against a 4BTL TLT Y-wing squad and won?

 

Haven't yet because the title is super intimidating to use when the sheer coverage of the turret is, to me, part of the selling point. My main opponent, failedparachute, has also mostly been using the TLT on named HWKs.

 

But the BTLT (extra tomato? nevermind) is a terrifyingly straightforward opponent, but they're still just a jouster. I don't rank them any higher than the FCS/HLC B-Wing; the B is more expensive but can spike damage better. Still most effective at the same ranges, and still has the same max damage output. But I'd always rather take the B-Wing for the free Target Locks, Barrel Roll, and the 2-Koiogran.

 

However I really respect the use of two PS4 Y-Wings to mix it up, I read way too often about the Unhinged Astro as autoinclude. It's nice, but not mandatory by any means.

 

Will 4 Y-wings make Top 4 or 8?  Will a Tie Swarm be in the mix?  K-wings?

 

I think we will see several 4YTLT lists make the cut after Swiss, and then not make it to Top 8. Everyone attending will be prepared for that list. I think Top 8 will have ~4 lists with TLTs in them, ±1. I think a TIE Swarm will make it past Top 16 but can't be more sure than that; I think it will be either the classic 8 TIE 4 Academy / 4 Obsidian Swarm, or a 6 TIE Swarm comprised of one or two TIE/fo pilots (Epsilon Leader jumps to mind, but two Omega Pilots might show up with EPTs).

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I'm not sold on the Sensor Jammer on a ship that would really rather have more flexibility out of its Sensor slot; it's an upgrade I take pretty seriously, and IG-88 and Guri both for me prefer FCS or Advanced Sensors. Autothrusters do just fine against TLTs, for the most part, even on a 2AGI ship like Poe Dameron's T70. It isn't supposed to be impenetrable; the 'thrusters just buy you enough time to off one or two TLTs. 

 

Guri in particular loves the TLT on a Y-Wing or HWK because she can AS->Boost and then manoeuvre into that Range 1 dead zone, gets a bonus Focus, and lights them up. And if you get lucky or plan ahead, she might even be able to Focus or TL that same turn for extra damage or defence, although Lone Wolf does help with that a lot.

 

I used to prefer the HLC/FCS combo on my Brobot lists, but with TLTs and a handful of other things going on I think I'm going to make the switch to AS/Manglers. Possibly AC/Manglers if I don't feel like fielding IG-88B (and the C/D pairing is looking more and more effective by the day). AS->Boost->free Evade from IG-88C is going to do wonders against TLTs anyway, and doing that and following with a hard 3-Turn SLoop from D will make the manoeuvre game even more in the bots' favour.

Well you asked for the best counters to quad TLT and Sensor Jammers are that. Is it the best choice when you take Brobots to a tournament? Unless you expect to only run into quad TLTs probably not. You underestimate Sensor Jammers, though, they are among the strongest defensive upgrades in the game and well worth the precious sensor slot. Star Vipers with their low hitpoints actually like it a lot and I used them without the TLT threat to good success.

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Well you asked for the best counters to quad TLT and Sensor Jammers are that. Is it the best choice when you take Brobots to a tournament? Unless you expect to only run into quad TLTs probably not. You underestimate Sensor Jammers, though, they are among the strongest defensive upgrades in the game and well worth the precious sensor slot. Star Vipers with their low hitpoints actually like it a lot and I used them without the TLT threat to good success.

 

 

Haha don't get me wrong! I love me some Jammers, they're incredibly potent at the right times and annoying at all others. I've used Jammers on a pair of shuttles and driven my friend up the wall because he kept bumping the silly cows. Incidentally, SJ OGP is a solid way to use 25 points with TLTs in mind, but that's neither here nor there.

 

But I agree with your other point, SJ on IG-88 is super effective against TLTs but won't result in a tournament-maximised list. You lose too much firepower and flexibility.

 

The right Virago build enjoys the Jammer too, but I'm thinking that's more for Predator Xizor than Guri. I'm partial to VI/FCS Xizor alongside three Y-Wings, but there's a lot of buildspace there.

Edited by Tsiegtiez

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Again I think your misunderstanding.

It's not about it being hard to beat etc.

I won't argue that it's unbeatable.

However if your not prepared for it, just as he was, well don't expect a very exciting game Imo

My opponent just didn't have fun.

It wasn't that thrilling of a game.

And I'm not talking about one or two ships with tlt.

I mean yes it's a strong squad, and it works well, but for someone to sit there and play against it, it's not fun.

As he put it, it's a nuisance to deal with, and I can see his point.

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