Plowing the Row with Horton Salm

[Verlaine 1,647]

"Slowing the bleeding" is entirely the point. In many strategic games, manipulating your opponent's target priority is a major goal. R4-D6 does that (similar to Tarn Mison and his droid). Horton and his turret aren't very hard-hitting, they put the dot on the i. That's why you want them to stay alive and be in a good endgame position.

[Babaganoosh 3,079]

 

 

You can also use bb-8 on Horton to slow roll, which is super important for a BTL TLT.

 

 

I had not considered this.  A half-base forward move is pretty great for a ship like that.

 

 

It's something I've had on my mind for a few days, but in the end I don't think it would be very efficient - 33 points just seems like too much for the package. If the Y-wing also had green banks I think it might be a different story.  Or if Horton had an EPT slot.

[ForceM 1,456]

Engine Upgrade on Y-Wings is almost strictly an option for fun games, especially on a Horton or Kavil. It certainly makes Kavil loads better letting him turn his arc to trigger his ability but in both cases you are sticking too many points into them to make it worthwhile.

From a competitive standpoint I have a hard time believing that you can put any more than 32 or 33 points into Horton before you've made him too costly. I think stress will start to play an even larger role in the future meta given the damage deck and an R2 or Unhinged to me seems like a near auto-include.

TLT's seem like they were designed specifically with Horton in mind. The problem with the combo is that it's still capped at 2 total damage. That's OK (neither bad nor great) given his increased consistency so long as you keep him alive. In order to make him great offensively you make him expensive and when he gets expensive he becomes an even bigger target than he already was.

Putting the BTL title on him can really start to make him dangerous but given its a front arc only attack then an R2 becomes pretty much critical lest you lose the ability to attack too often.

Marksmanship on Horton eats up his astromech slot and both limits his mobility and makes him even more expensive.

There is absolutely no question that there are some really fun ways to kit Y-Wing Aces out. I just don't see them being part of a list that has a reasonable chance at making a deep run in a high level tournament.

I think if you actually want to play Horton with BTL-A4 then there is no other choice than going with EU. If you don't you will lose against any arc dodger, even the lower PS ones.

 

I agree that this is not the strongest build in the world, but at least he is much less easy to predict with EU and can dodge some arcs as well.

 

Marksmanship is not that great on him. without movement options he will be blocked a lot and its 4 points. Unlike movement options i dont think Marksmanship will change a huge lot over focus. If you have no shot all game long you have no need to hit better XD.

 

For Astromech, the options i see are BB-8, R2 or R5-P9. Horton can always modify dice on R2-3 so he should be able to keep focus sometimes. Theoretically...

 

I also think that going plain TLT without A4 is a better idea, that way you dont need EU as much and can stay cheaper. With only TLT and an R2 he is 32 points. Thats pretty reasonable. Only 7 points over a Gold Squadron or Thug. i think he is great for a 3-Ship list like that.

 

Look this list is my try to get as much as possible out of a 3 TLT list. I think it looks rather good. It has one TLT less and is less mobile, but its shots should be much more precise when you need it. I have not tried this out though so i have no idea how well it works in reality. Will probably lose against a 4Y TLT list, but could be effective against a lot of other stuff.

 

Esege Tuketu (28)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Recon Specialist (3)

Horton Salm (25)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

R2 Astromech (1)

"Dutch" Vander (23)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

R5-K6 (2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Edited September 24, 2015 by ForceM

[Biophysical 15,776]

You could swap Esege for a Miranda build and have two PS8 regenerating TLTs.

[Galactic Funk 831]

"Slowing the bleeding" is entirely the point. In many strategic games, manipulating your opponent's target priority is a major goal. R4-D6 does that (similar to Tarn Mison and his droid). Horton and his turret aren't very hard-hitting, they put the dot on the i. That's why you want them to stay alive and be in a good endgame position.

R4-D6 rarely gets used for a reason. Once Integrated Astromech comes out that will change things. Even then the R2 will be superior on Horton. It's not even a debate.

[Galactic Funk 831]

Engine Upgrade on Y-Wings is almost strictly an option for fun games, especially on a Horton or Kavil. It certainly makes Kavil loads better letting him turn his arc to trigger his ability but in both cases you are sticking too many points into them to make it worthwhile.From a competitive standpoint I have a hard time believing that you can put any more than 32 or 33 points into Horton before you've made him too costly. I think stress will start to play an even larger role in the future meta given the damage deck and an R2 or Unhinged to me seems like a near auto-include.TLT's seem like they were designed specifically with Horton in mind. The problem with the combo is that it's still capped at 2 total damage. That's OK (neither bad nor great) given his increased consistency so long as you keep him alive. In order to make him great offensively you make him expensive and when he gets expensive he becomes an even bigger target than he already was.Putting the BTL title on him can really start to make him dangerous but given its a front arc only attack then an R2 becomes pretty much critical lest you lose the ability to attack too often.Marksmanship on Horton eats up his astromech slot and both limits his mobility and makes him even more expensive.There is absolutely no question that there are some really fun ways to kit Y-Wing Aces out. I just don't see them being part of a list that has a reasonable chance at making a deep run in a high level tournament.

I think if you actually want to play Horton with BTL-A4 then there is no other choice than going with EU. If you don't you will lose against any arc dodger, even the lower PS ones. I agree that this is not the strongest build in the world, but at least he is much less easy to predict with EU and can dodge some arcs as well. Marksmanship is not that great on him. without movement options he will be blocked a lot and its 4 points. Unlike movement options i dont think Marksmanship will change a huge lot over focus. If you have no shot all game long you have no need to hit better XD. For Astromech, the options i see are BB-8, R2 or R5-P9. Horton can always modify dice on R2-3 so he should be able to keep focus sometimes. Theoretically... I also think that going plain TLT without A4 is a better idea, that way you dont need EU as much and can stay cheaper. With only TLT and an R2 he is 32 points. Thats pretty reasonable. Only 7 points over a Gold Squadron or Thug. i think he is great for a 3-Ship list like that. Look this list is my try to get as much as possible out of a 3 TLT list. I think it looks rather good. It has one TLT less and is less mobile, but its shots should be much more precise when you need it. I have not tried this out though so i have no idea how well it works in reality. Will probably lose against a 4Y TLT list, but could be effective against a lot of other stuff. Esege Tuketu (28)Twin Laser Turret (6)Recon Specialist (3)Horton Salm (25)Twin Laser Turret (6)R2 Astromech (1)"Dutch" Vander (23)Twin Laser Turret (6)R5-K6 (2)Total: 100View in Yet Another Squad Builder

That's the exact Horton setup I was talking about. TLT and an R2 for 32 points. I absolutely agree that's reasonable. As soon as you jump up to 36 points with EU I think you have too much into him for the return. 32 is tough enough of a jump from the Goldie at 25.

[Verlaine 1,647]

R4-D6 rarely gets used for a reason...It's not even a debate.

I like to challenge groupthink every now and then. Especially when "it's not even a debate."

[ForceM 1,456]

Yes that's ideal. But what i was saying was that with BTL-A4 i would never go without EU