Plowing the Row with Horton Salm

[Stone37 3,353]

I think Horton could work as a jouster with BB-8. He's got high enough PS that you can react to what's going on.   Y wings have a decent slow dial...they just aren't fast.  That comes in at 33. Conversely, you could knock BB-8 and put EU on him.  That's 35...which for some reason feels too many points to me compared to 33 :-(

 

In addition to being chepaer, BB-8 also gives you some protection against getting blocked.  Not that Horton is terribly action-needy.

 

Either one, though, I think, in competent hands, should allow Horton to get to where he needs to be. 

With only a 1 and 2 straight as green... He'll still be very easy to block, even with BB-8.

[Rividius 583]

Horton Salm (25)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

R5-P9 (3)

BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

 

Total: 34

 

I would run Horton like this. Focus every turn, never spend the focus on attacks, instead rely on the rerolls for damage. Always keep the focus for shield regen.

[ForceM 1,456]

I don't exactly know why you say that it's difficult to get people in arc with Horton.

You give him EU, maybe even R2 and he is an excellent arc dodger at PS8.

The only real problem is that you need to stay outside range 1. That could be the most difficult thing. But then if you have flown HLC ships or Brobots, you know how to achieve that.

Edited September 24, 2015 by ForceM

[Crabbok 9,887]

So this Horton-based list:

Blue Squadron Novice (24)
R2-D2 (4)
Weapons Guidance (2)

Blue Squadron Novice (24)
BB-8 (2)
Weapons Guidance (2)

Horton Salm (25)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Bomb Loadout (0)
Extra Munitions (2)
R2-D6 (1)
Marksmanship (3)
Proton Bombs (5)
BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Would it be better to lighten up some of Hortons Bomb points, to be able to throw Autothrusters on my T-70s?   Or better off with double proton bomb capability from a PS8 Horton?   If I downgrade horton to a single seismic charge, I can give both T-70s an autothruster and have a 99 point build for initiative.    Might be a good trade. 

[Biophysical 15,776]

The problem I have with Horton (and Kavil) is simply the high cost you pay for them. Yes, they can do more damage than a standard Y-Wing but I feel like once you upgrade them to make them particularly nasty you've ventured too far into diminished returns. They die just as easy as any other Y-Wing and will have a giant target on their heads. I really want them to work for me but haven't struck upon the right list where I think it makes sense.

 

They definitely have "Farlander Syndrome", where if you make them too powerful, they're easy to chase down and kill with just about anything.  I don't know where the right break-point is on points for this is.  That's why think that the cheapest version may be best, maybe + R5-P9, that's a good idea. 

 

 

I think the most important consideration when taking a heavy hitter like this is to have a second one in your list. Make you opponent choose between treats to go after first, so you can play cat-and-mouse and hammer them with the other. Then give yourself a couple of cheap A-Wing blockers or a few Z-95s for additional, efficient attacks, and have fun.

 

Definitely.  I think he'd actually pair well with a nice Jake build to hunt arc dodgers with his Proton Rockets.  Horton can herd, Jake can deliver the killing blow.  A pair of Prototypes could fit nicely in there.

 

 

I think Horton could work as a jouster with BB-8. He's got high enough PS that you can react to what's going on.   Y wings have a decent slow dial...they just aren't fast.  That comes in at 33. Conversely, you could knock BB-8 and put EU on him.  That's 35...which for some reason feels too many points to me compared to 33 :-(

 

In addition to being chepaer, BB-8 also gives you some protection against getting blocked.  Not that Horton is terribly action-needy.

 

Either one, though, I think, in competent hands, should allow Horton to get to where he needs to be. 

 

I think his lack of native greens would make BB-8 a non-starter.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Biophysical

[gamblertuba 5,649]

Good?  Probably not.   Fun?  Quite possibly.  Stay away and get nickeled and dimed to death.  Get in close and eat a face full of torpedo.

 

Horton Salm (25)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

R2 Astromech (1)

 

Nera Dantels (26)

Deadeye (1)

Extra Munitions (2)

Advanced Proton Torpedoes (6)

Recon Specialist (3)

B-Wing/E2 (1)

 

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Bomb Loadout (0)

R3-A2 (2)

Proximity Mines (3)

 

Total: 100

 

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

[Biophysical 15,776]

That's one way to guard the doughnut hole.

[ForceM 1,456]

My shot at this:

Horton Salm (25)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

BB-8 (2)

Engine Upgrade (4)

BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Poe Dameron (31)

Predator (3)

R5-P9 (3)

Autothrusters (2)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I would nearly prefer a simple R2 over BB-8 though on Horton. I mean he needs to slow roll green after K-turns. Then i could give R2-D2 and Push the limit to Poe in return.

[Magnus Grendel 11,691]

BB-8 plus an engine upgrade gives him a lot of flexibility at PS8. He doesn't really need his action for offence and it's not like he's going to dodge much when defending....

[TheRealStarkiller 3,446]

You could bump Horton to PS10 if there is a sign of Whisper.

Just give him VI + EU + TLT, without title ... and maybe a bomb or two...

[nigeltastic 3,808]

I don't exactly know why you say that it's difficult to get people in arc with Horton.

You give him EU, maybe even R2 and he is an excellent arc dodger at PS8.

The only real problem is that you need to stay outside range 1. That could be the most difficult thing. But then if you have flown HLC ships or Brobots, you know how to achieve that.

Because he is flying a ywing which has a very stiff dial and unlike almost all hlc carriers he becomes drastically worse at range 1, whereas most of them still get their 4 dice.

[TaeSWXW 755]

Horton < Drea

 

Drea may stress herself, but Unhinged Astromech makes the stress inconsequential.

[Biophysical 15,776]

Fortunately Ys get a 4 K-turn, so once you flip around you can build some distance to keep blasting away from > range 1.  The Y is no A-wing, but it's better than a B-wing.  It has the 3-turn option, and the 3 bank is white, along with the 1 straight and bank.  It's reasonably well suited for long-range jousting.  

[Biophysical 15,776]

Horton < Drea

 

Drea may stress herself, but Unhinged Astromech makes the stress inconsequential.

 

Not if you're using her ability on every TLT shot.  She can rack up stress fast.

[YwingAce 2,546]

Horton < Drea

 

Drea may stress herself, but Unhinged Astromech makes the stress inconsequential.

Nah, Horton can pull some nasty shenanigans, especially with the synergy of other Rebels supporting him.

[TaeSWXW 755]

 

Horton < Drea

 

Drea may stress herself, but Unhinged Astromech makes the stress inconsequential.

 

Not if you're using her ability on every TLT shot.  She can rack up stress fast.

 

 

It's even more entertaining with R4-B11 and title - that's six stress in one turn.

[ForceM 1,456]

I don't exactly know why you say that it's difficult to get people in arc with Horton.

You give him EU, maybe even R2 and he is an excellent arc dodger at PS8.

The only real problem is that you need to stay outside range 1. That could be the most difficult thing. But then if you have flown HLC ships or Brobots, you know how to achieve that.

Because he is flying a ywing which has a very stiff dial and unlike almost all hlc carriers he becomes drastically worse at range 1, whereas most of them still get their 4 dice.

Its very simple. For 1 point you have a pretty good dial. For 4 points you get boost, which is better on him than on most ships because he does pretty well without any action. Horton Salm with boost has no more problems than an Advanced or even a T-70 to get people in arc!

The only thing that is really bad about the Y-Wings dial is that it only has 2 straight greens. The red turns and 4 straight are not really that bad if you can green 1 bank after a K or these maneuvers. The only thing that he cnt do is boost after a 4 or 3 hard.

On a BTL-A4 i actually prefer R2 units over Unhinged. You don't want to overshoot the target anyway.

Edited September 24, 2015 by ForceM

[Biophysical 15,776]

 

 

Horton < Drea

 

Drea may stress herself, but Unhinged Astromech makes the stress inconsequential.

 

Not if you're using her ability on every TLT shot.  She can rack up stress fast.

 

 

It's even more entertaining with R4-B11 and title - that's six stress in one turn.

 

 

I actually did this once, against a meager Obsidian Squadron Pilot no less.  TL action, Fire Primaries (spend TL to re-roll Reds, spend TL to re-roll greens), repeat for both TLT shots.  Killed the TIE in one shot, ...err, salvo.  It was going to have a probable killing shot on another of my Y-wings.  I then decided R4-B11 was awesome, but probably ought to be on a Drea that doesn't mind not turning around, so maybe not the BTL-A4 version.  To top it all off, I forgot to add a stress and get a new TL on some other ship, so she was on blocking duty the rest of the game.

[Babaganoosh 3,079]

I think Horton could work as a jouster with BB-8. He's got high enough PS that you can react to what's going on.   Y wings have a decent slow dial...they just aren't fast.  That comes in at 33. Conversely, you could knock BB-8 and put EU on him.  That's 35...which for some reason feels too many points to me compared to 33 :-(

 

In addition to being chepaer, BB-8 also gives you some protection against getting blocked.  Not that Horton is terribly action-needy.

 

Either one, though, I think, in competent hands, should allow Horton to get to where he needs to be.

You can also use bb-8 on Horton to slow roll, which is super important for a BTL TLT.

[Biophysical 15,776]

 

 

I don't exactly know why you say that it's difficult to get people in arc with Horton.

You give him EU, maybe even R2 and he is an excellent arc dodger at PS8.

The only real problem is that you need to stay outside range 1. That could be the most difficult thing. But then if you have flown HLC ships or Brobots, you know how to achieve that.

Because he is flying a ywing which has a very stiff dial and unlike almost all hlc carriers he becomes drastically worse at range 1, whereas most of them still get their 4 dice.

Its very simple. For 1 point you have a pretty good dial. For 4 points you get boost, which is better on him than on most ships because he does pretty well without any action. Horton Salm with boost has no more problems than an Advanced or even a T-70 to get people in arc!

The only thing that is really bad about the Y-Wings dial is that it only has 2 straight greens. The red turns and 4 straight are not really that bad if you can green 1 bank after a K or these maneuvers. The only thing that he cnt do is boost after a 4 or 3 hard.

On a BTL-A4 i actually prefer R2 units over Unhinged. You don't want to overshoot the target anyway.

 

 

I think you're probably right, but on my Scum versions I had points and decided to try adding Prox mines to them.  It was pretty sweet because when someone charged in to avoid the TLT, you'd jump past them next turn to drop a Prox mine on them.  I'd do this a lot after K-turning, so my sequence would be:

1.)  K-turn

2.)  Opposing ship moves in close to limit incoming shots

3.)  3-move past opposing ship to clear stress and drop bomb

 

Prox mines really stress out some ships that otherwise mostly ignore TLTs, BTLA4 or not.  The green 3-turn is a pretty good mine dropping move.

[Biophysical 15,776]

 

I think Horton could work as a jouster with BB-8. He's got high enough PS that you can react to what's going on.   Y wings have a decent slow dial...they just aren't fast.  That comes in at 33. Conversely, you could knock BB-8 and put EU on him.  That's 35...which for some reason feels too many points to me compared to 33 :-(

 

In addition to being chepaer, BB-8 also gives you some protection against getting blocked.  Not that Horton is terribly action-needy.

 

Either one, though, I think, in competent hands, should allow Horton to get to where he needs to be.

You can also use bb-8 on Horton to slow roll, which is super important for a BTL TLT.

 

 

I had not considered this.  A half-base forward move is pretty great for a ship like that.

[Rocmistro 1,090]

 

I think Horton could work as a jouster with BB-8. He's got high enough PS that you can react to what's going on.   Y wings have a decent slow dial...they just aren't fast.  That comes in at 33. Conversely, you could knock BB-8 and put EU on him.  That's 35...which for some reason feels too many points to me compared to 33 :-(

 

In addition to being chepaer, BB-8 also gives you some protection against getting blocked.  Not that Horton is terribly action-needy.

 

Either one, though, I think, in competent hands, should allow Horton to get to where he needs to be. 

With only a 1 and 2 straight as green... He'll still be very easy to block, even with BB-8.

 

 

Hrm...for some reason, when I was typing that, I thought Y wing 1 banks were green as well. I think FFG changed the Y wing dial on me overnight :-)

[Galactic Funk 831]

Engine Upgrade on Y-Wings is almost strictly an option for fun games, especially on a Horton or Kavil. It certainly makes Kavil loads better letting him turn his arc to trigger his ability but in both cases you are sticking too many points into them to make it worthwhile.

From a competitive standpoint I have a hard time believing that you can put any more than 32 or 33 points into Horton before you've made him too costly. I think stress will start to play an even larger role in the future meta given the damage deck and an R2 or Unhinged to me seems like a near auto-include.

TLT's seem like they were designed specifically with Horton in mind. The problem with the combo is that it's still capped at 2 total damage. That's OK (neither bad nor great) given his increased consistency so long as you keep him alive. In order to make him great offensively you make him expensive and when he gets expensive he becomes an even bigger target than he already was.

Putting the BTL title on him can really start to make him dangerous but given its a front arc only attack then an R2 becomes pretty much critical lest you lose the ability to attack too often.

Marksmanship on Horton eats up his astromech slot and both limits his mobility and makes him even more expensive.

There is absolutely no question that there are some really fun ways to kit Y-Wing Aces out. I just don't see them being part of a list that has a reasonable chance at making a deep run in a high level tournament.

[Verlaine 1,647]

TLT's seem like they were designed specifically with Horton in mind. The problem with the combo is that it's still capped at 2 total damage. That's OK (neither bad nor great) given his increased consistency so long as you keep him alive. In order to make him great offensively you make him expensive and when he gets expensive he becomes an even bigger target than he already was.

Hence, R4-D6. It's cheap, makes him durable and caps damage against him at 2, also. Good for the endgame, but hopefully his opponent has less hull left!

[Galactic Funk 831]

TLT's seem like they were designed specifically with Horton in mind. The problem with the combo is that it's still capped at 2 total damage. That's OK (neither bad nor great) given his increased consistency so long as you keep him alive. In order to make him great offensively you make him expensive and when he gets expensive he becomes an even bigger target than he already was.

Hence, R4-D6. It's cheap, makes him durable and caps damage against him at 2, also. Good for the endgame, but hopefully his opponent has less hull left!

R4-D6 is extremely situational and only slows the bleeding part of the time. Remember, R4-D6 does not trigger unless it's 3 or more hit results specifically. Crits aren't factored into that equation. If someone has an attack result of hit, hit, crit against Horton R4-D6 does nothing and you are left to defend yourself with a single agility die. You also lose the mobility that an R2 gives you.

Other downsides: R4-D6 resolves before Bossk triggers his ability; R4-D6 doesn't concern TLT's or AC's or Manglers.