Plowing the Row with Horton Salm

[Biophysical 15,744]

I've been on a BTL-A4 TLT kick recently.  I've run it with Hired Guns as well as Drea Renthal, popping stress like mad to acquire Target Locks over and over.  I started to think on my Rebel options, and looked immediately to Horton Salm.  He gets the re-rolls that Drea gets, without all the stress shenanigans.  PS8 is also nice.  

 

First off, why BTL-A4?  One extra 2-dice primary on top of 2 3-dice Secondary attacks seems a little weak for giving up the turret flexibility.  The damage cap on the Secondary attacks opens up some interesting considerations, though, depending on your target.  Against AGI 0 targets, especially if you have a Focus to boost the attack, you're likely to get an extra damage, maybe two.  That's a 50-100% damage increase.  Against AGI1, 1 extra damage is more likely, but that's still an extra 50% damage.  1 Damage is actually a lot in X-wing.  Against higher AGI stuff, you're struggling to hit more, so you can get mileage out of every extra chance at damage that you can get.  Furthermore, if you expect to face high AGI Autothruster ships, the shots outside your front arc are going to be less effective, so you can double down on your ability to bring targets in arc by going the BTL-A4 route.  Finally, in early rounds of combat it's easier to get things in arc, so by taking the BTL-A4 title, you're trading late damage for early damage.  You get more shots earlier, but fewer later ships move past each other.  Whether this exchange will be worth it depends on how well you can leverage that early damage into earlier kills.

 

The base Horton for this build is simple, TLT+Horton+BTL-A4:  31 points of jouster.  There are a number of interesting options, though.  R2 Astromech is always useful.  R2-D6 for an EPT is especially interesting.  You could add VI to get to PS10 and screw with Arc Dodgers.  This option could get a lot of use out of an Engine Upgrade, but that starts getting pretty pricey.  You could go with Marksmanship to get re-rolls on blanks and hits on eyes, and maybe even make a crit work for you off the Primary attack.  That's a 35 point build, but is action dependent.  You could also go Wired for 33 points and stress yourself on your first move to get re-rolls on both blanks and eyes when attacking, or just use a Focus and let Wired kick in more naturally after you K-turn or pull a hard 3.  

 

All of these ideas have merit on a non-BTL-A4 Horton with TLT, I think, but the title makes for an interesting ship that really can focus a lot of firepower early.  

What are your thoughts on this sort of ship?

 

 

[Stone37 3,353]

I can't imagine putting BTL-A4 on a TLT Y-wing.  The Ion Turret makes sense.  It starts a chain of death.  I might even consider it for the Autoblaster because it is a R1 anyways.  

 

I love the out of the box thinking... but that's a lot of points for very little gain (which might actually be argued a loss).

 

I have run Horton with the TLT and overall I'm not thrilled with it.  My meta is filled with high agility ships and I have not fared well against them with a TLT or two.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Stone37

[MacrossVF1 4,563]

I love Horton with TLT and have been toying with the idea of trying BTL-A4 on him. Haven't tried it yet though. My favourite config as of yet is R5-P9 and TLT. It's not too expensive and gives Horton some much needed extra survivability. Horton's ability often means that you don't need to use your focus token for attacks which in turns means R5-P9 can activate fairly often. And we all know how useful it is to regenerate shields.

[Stoneface 3,750]

I've flown 4 Ys with BTL, 2 Ys with BTL and 2 with straight turrets and 4 Ys with straight turrets. What I've found is the BTLs are good for one round if your opponent comes at you head on. Occasionally you'll get a couple of more front arc shots during the game but I think you're better off with straight turrets. The Ys are not hyper-mobile and you need to cover their 6 o'clock. Losing the double tap early is more than made up for by the 360° coverage. The games where I had the BTL upgrade I lost all of them. I won all of the games running 4 straight turrets.

One thing I will add. The look on the opponent's face when the 4 BTLs he's chasing k turn together and unleash a 24 dice range 3 attack followed by an 8 die range 1 attack the following turn is almost worth losing a game for.

[TheRealStarkiller 3,446]

How about Horton with Proton Trops, EM, GC?

 

Well I guess we have to wait until we know what GC does, don't we?

[mxlm 902]

What are your thoughts on this sort of ship?

If you're running a BTLT, R3-A2 is obscene. You now have an enormous cone of fire in which an opposing arc dodger cannot afford to be caught, and he has to work a lot harder than you do to setup a favorable engagement. 

 

Frankly, while I don't think normal TLTs are especially troublesome (viable, sure), I do think TLT stresshogs verge on the seriously problematic. Double stress at range three is just so strong. It may well be that I just need to fly better, but my experience thus far has been that the combo is awful to fly against. 

[quasistellar 736]

How about Horton with Proton Trops, EM, GC?

 

Well I guess we have to wait until we know what GC does, don't we?

What is GC?

[Tipperary 2,370]

How about Horton with Proton Trops, EM, GC?

 

Well I guess we have to wait until we know what GC does, don't we?

What is GC?

Guidance Chip, mod coming with the TAP and iirc Mist Hunter.

 

"When atta... <missile> secon... may chang... <hit> resul... your prim... "0"..."

[Hobojebus 11,341]

Given the title I expected something dirty, seems my mind is setting me up for disappointment yet again.

[ObiWonka 7,076]

What is this, another thread about how to play and enjoy the game? Am I contagious?

 

Horton + TLT (probably without the title for me) is something I've been looking forward to but haven't gotten to the table yet. Soon!

 

 

 My meta is filled with high agility ships and I have not fared well against them with a TLT or two.

Lies! TLT's broke the game!

 

[Sanguinary Dan 468]

I've used Horton w/TLT a couple of times and really like it. I need to try it with the Stressbot just to mess with some of the nasty Soontir shenanigans and to make him easier for my Rebels to hit.

[LordVogl 152]

I like the 40 point Horton quite a bit:

 

(25) Horton

(6) TLT

(3) R5P9
(4) Proton Torp

(2) Extra munitions

 

Hits hard and has a bit of resiliency.

 

But with regards to the OP, I also really like the BTL-A4 TLT y-wing. It is harder to fly but rewards the increase in skill with a corresponding increase in offensive punch. This kit fits right into Hortons skill set. Give him an engine and he becomes a formidable dog fighter. 

Edited September 24, 2015 by LordVogl

[nikk whyte 3,869]

Horton with marksmanship is no joke. It turns him into a Gatling gun.

[Flamestalker 37]

Keep up the good works guys.  Keep these style of threads going.

 

ObiWonka, it does look like you started something good with your other thread, positivity can be contagious.

[Rocmistro 1,090]

Horton with marksmanship is no joke. It turns him into a Gatling gun.

I'm assuming you mean when he's running the BTL title with TLT?

 

That seems the best way to leverage his ability, since is pilot ability also kicks in on both TLT attacks. I like it :-)

 

Still, not sure if I want to burn my Astro slot and pay 4 pts for Marksmanship. :-(

[Ailowynn 1,723]

TLT + BTL is an obscene combo if you can pull it off -- I seem to recall it has something like a 112% jousting efficiency, though I could be wrong. It's hard to get things in arc, but if you do, those extra dice are awesome.

For Horton, I like the idea of R3-A2; it's expensive, but allows you to modify attacks even when stressed.

[Galactic Funk 831]

The problem I have with Horton (and Kavil) is simply the high cost you pay for them. Yes, they can do more damage than a standard Y-Wing but I feel like once you upgrade them to make them particularly nasty you've ventured too far into diminished returns. They die just as easy as any other Y-Wing and will have a giant target on their heads. I really want them to work for me but haven't struck upon the right list where I think it makes sense.

[ObiWonka 7,076]

I think the most important consideration when taking a heavy hitter like this is to have a second one in your list. Make you opponent choose between treats to go after first, so you can play cat-and-mouse and hammer them with the other. Then give yourself a couple of cheap A-Wing blockers or a few Z-95s for additional, efficient attacks, and have fun.

[Verlaine 1,647]

I'd consider R5-K6 R4-D6 on such a Horton build, if for no other reason than that it makes him a less attractive target.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Lingula

[nigeltastic 3,808]

Horton with marksmanship is no joke. It turns him into a Gatling gun.

I'm assuming you mean when he's running the BTL title with TLT?

 

That seems the best way to leverage his ability, since is pilot ability also kicks in on both TLT attacks. I like it :-)

 

Still, not sure if I want to burn my Astro slot and pay 4 pts for Marksmanship. :-(

I would say do not take title with marksmanship Horton. He's really really accurate and is doing 2 all but guaranteed damage against everything each turn. The title makes it so he has to joust (hint, bad with the dial) versus flying in a circle and murdering things safely from range.

[Galactic Funk 831]

Horton with marksmanship is no joke. It turns him into a Gatling gun.

I'm assuming you mean when he's running the BTL title with TLT?

 

That seems the best way to leverage his ability, since is pilot ability also kicks in on both TLT attacks. I like it :-)

 

Still, not sure if I want to burn my Astro slot and pay 4 pts for Marksmanship. :-(

I would say do not take title with marksmanship Horton. He's really really accurate and is doing 2 all but guaranteed damage against everything each turn. The title makes it so he has to joust (hint, bad with the dial) versus flying in a circle and murdering things safely from range.

Agreed. This is the same general principle for why I think the Unhinged trumps the Agromech for Scum. Yes, the Agromech is better for optimization of attacks but the Unhinged allows them to move as needed, particularly with an otherwise ugly dial.

[Rocmistro 1,090]

I think Horton could work as a jouster with BB-8. He's got high enough PS that you can react to what's going on.   Y wings have a decent slow dial...they just aren't fast.  That comes in at 33. Conversely, you could knock BB-8 and put EU on him.  That's 35...which for some reason feels too many points to me compared to 33 :-(

 

In addition to being chepaer, BB-8 also gives you some protection against getting blocked.  Not that Horton is terribly action-needy.

 

Either one, though, I think, in competent hands, should allow Horton to get to where he needs to be. 

Edited September 24, 2015 by Rocmistro

[YwingAce 2,546]

Horton Salm (25)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Bomb Loadout (0)

R3-A2 (2)

Seismic Charges (2)

Hull Upgrade (3)

BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Luke Skywalker (28)

Lone Wolf (2)

R5-P9 (3)

Integrated Astromech (0)

Gold Squadron Pilot (18)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Bomb Loadout (0)

R2 Astromech (1)

Seismic Charges (2)

BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Total: 98

Horton and Gold to provide firepower, carrying seismics in case anyone tries to get on their rear, and Luke to screw targeting priorities. Try to hit him, and He'll probably just regain a shield at the end of the round, but leave him alone and he'll rip you apart.

I've also been thinking a BTL-A4 with BB-8 would be hilarious.

Edited September 24, 2015 by YwingAce

[Crabbok 9,866]

Horton+TLT+R2D6+Marksmanship - you get that super focus for 3 attacks each turn!

[TheRealStarkiller 3,446]

Horton+TLT+R2D6+Marksmanship - you get that super focus for 3 attacks each turn!

 

= Super Warthog