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Viratin

My Keys to Winning at Sullest

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You always see those "Keys to Winning" things that ESPN does for football and baseball games. Well, here are my current keys to winning: 

 

1) Win Initiative Bid: Honestly, dropping one 4-point upgrade in order to assure you get to fire first every time around is a no-brainer. I'm going with somewhere between a 7 and 10 point initiative bid, haven't finalized my list yet. Sure, it's the cost of a squadron, but in the grand scheme of things, losing 3.33% of your list's points to guarantee going first is a no-brainer in my book. Gaining the initiative also helps you control the mission, which is always helpful.

 

2) Build list with 3 Imperial Ships, minimal squadrons: We figured this one out a while back, and it still holds true. Killing Imperial ships is hard work, and all you have to do is take out one of your enemy's ships and avoid any of your three from going down in order to guarantee a win in 6 turn games (objective points not withstanding). Squadrons are, unfortunately, a liability (we've argued this back and forth repeatedly elsewhere, yes there are exceptions, we don't need to cover it again here :P ). If your enemy has squadrons, by and large he's going to have a carrier ship for them, and if you can destroy that, his squadrons are going to lose a lot of their power. As an Imperial player, my squadrons are going to die. Three squadrons of TIE-Fighters are more than enough to tie up my enemy until I can take down their carrier. After that, it should be a walk in the park. 

 

3) Get the First Kill: This may seem obvious, but you need to specify your fundamentals in order to appreciate them. Splashing that first target gives you a number of advantages. First off, especially in Imperial mirror matches, gaining the Initiative and then splashing an enemy target allows you to go first and last (since your opponent likely only has 3 ships as well. If he has two, then you're going to have two unanswered activations each turn.) If your opponent is running squadrons and has a designated carrier, this also provides the bonus of making that section of his list far less capable, giving you an even greater advantage. In addition to the tactical advantage, you also gain a psychological advantage over your enemy. It's like scoring the first touchdown in football: it's your opponent's responsibility to come back and score, or they'll lose. All you have to do is play defensively at that point. The psychological weight of that is something you can count on influencing your opponent's choices, which helps you to guess his moves.

 

 

 

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I will take up your challenge and plan a counter list to all your points as follows:

 

1. I will use my points to get as close as possible, if not 300pts, without regard for winning the bid-war.  Where its a tie and I win the roll off, I will defer to my opponent and let him choose. 

 

2. I will draw up a Rebellion list, 2-4 ships, with medium to heavy points on squadrons.

 

3. I will not lose a ship.  Not a counter, I know, but a harder challenge.

 

This is excellent actually.  I know have another motivation besides just winning by the largest Margin Of Victory.  I may just have to have a VOIP party a couple days before the Massing to get some last minute shop-talk and/list modifying.

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I will take up your challenge and plan a counter list to all your points as follows:

 

1. I will use my points to get as close as possible, if not 300pts, without regard for winning the bid-war.  Where its a tie and I win the roll off, I will defer to my opponent and let him choose. 

 

2. I will draw up a Rebellion list, 2-4 ships, with medium to heavy points on squadrons.

 

3. I will not lose a ship.  Not a counter, I know, but a harder challenge.

 

This is excellent actually.  I know have another motivation besides just winning by the largest Margin Of Victory.  I may just have to have a VOIP party a couple days before the Massing to get some last minute shop-talk and/list modifying.

 

Good luck to you. A medium to heavy list of rebel squadrons (50-100 points, or between 4-10 squadrons) with four ships is a tall order, so I'll be interested to see the results of your list building.

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The problem with B-Wings, I've found, is their minimal speed. If they get caught for even a turn by TIE-Fighters, and then lose their carrier support, they're caught playing catch-up. At speed 2, a VSD is moving faster than a B-Wing. Not to mention the high cost on B-Wings. I'm much more of a fan of Y-wings. Not as hard hitting, but faster and more durable. And cheaper!

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Heh, I usually build lists by the following process:

 

What Commander?

 

How many ships?

 

Which ships?

 

How many squadrons?

 

Which upgrades?

 

 

After I'm all done, I go the opposite route, trimming points out: lose an upgrade if I can, then maybe trim back a squadron. If that doesn't work, maybe swap a GSD-II for a GSD-I, or drop it entirely.

This usually helps me with my lists, because you narrow down to the smaller choices last. I've noted a lot of people build a ship with a certain build, then try to work everything else around it, which doesn't work quite as well.

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I desperately need to get practicing... been too busy for me and my sparring partner to get together to play the last two weeks however. My rough plan is a light fighter list, 3 ships, likely 2 AFmkII's and a Neb and likely only 2 fighters.

 

But for me, the keys to Sullust is to have a good time and if all else fails, deny the opponent a overwhelming victory (or don't lose big). In a way, that 2nd part is kinda being a ****, but If I can't win a matchup, I ain't going to give away an easy victory to my opponent. I just won't lay down for somebody else.

 

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"Okay, just 4 Assault frigates, then a bunch of squadrons, oh and a CR90 Tantive + Ramus for the support, maybe an Ace or two... wait how many points am I now?  Dang-it, that's way above 300!"

 

(every list-building session that I do, ever.)

 

Hey, epic matches, man. It is armada, after all. :)

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No Rebel B-Wing commander worth his salt will commit them in such a way that they won't be useful. The only time B-wings won't be able to hurt those massive Star Destroyers is when those Star Destroyers are pointed away from the ships they are trying to shoot.

 

The Point of B-Wings is to punish any ships that try to get close. The only way to prevent being punched by them is to bring your own fighters to keep the B-wings occupied. Else, to ignore them is to invite peril.

Edited by Norsehound

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Bid is irrelevant.

Going with a four ship build. No squadrons. Aiming for fastest win possible in the mos efficient way.

Four ship imp? Or rebel?

My plan? Uh honestly just roll the dice. Have fun. First or second turn doesn't matter much to me. I'm ok with either.

Other than that also great advice in first post.

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Bid is irrelevant.

Going with a four ship build. No squadrons. Aiming for fastest win possible in the mos efficient way.

Not to cast aspersions, but this is my least favorite player type to encounter either casually or in tournament.

Will you win? Statistically, yes.

Is your list fun or interesting to play against? Generally, no.

We're all playing for different reasons I suppose.

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Bid is irrelevant.

Going with a four ship build. No squadrons. Aiming for fastest win possible in the mos efficient way.

Not to cast aspersions, but this is my least favorite player type to encounter either casually or in tournament.

Will you win? Statistically, yes.

Is your list fun or interesting to play against? Generally, no.

We're all playing for different reasons I suppose.

 

Be careful how you tread.  The Victory Point System and Tourney Rules breed this type of composition.  Stylish play isn't rewarded...yet.  You can't shun the monster (killing harder in this case) when the system keeps feeding it.

 

Case in point:  I lost a tourney last week based on Margin of Victory, to a player I had already beat.   I was 3-0, he was 2-1.  But he 'Pwned Harderest'...and I placed second based on MoV.  Did I have a stylish list?  yeppers!  But zero points given for that sadly. 

 

I hope this doesn't blow up into a fingerpointing match.  /salute

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Bid is irrelevant.

Going with a four ship build. No squadrons. Aiming for fastest win possible in the mos efficient way.

Not to cast aspersions, but this is my least favorite player type to encounter either casually or in tournament.

Will you win? Statistically, yes.

Is your list fun or interesting to play against? Generally, no.

We're all playing for different reasons I suppose.

 

Be careful how you tread.  The Victory Point System and Tourney Rules breed this type of composition.  Stylish play isn't rewarded...yet.  You can't shun the monster (killing harder in this case) when the system keeps feeding it.

 

Case in point:  I lost a tourney last week based on Margin of Victory, to a player I had already beat.   I was 3-0, he was 2-1.  But he 'Pwned Harderest'...and I placed second based on MoV.  Did I have a stylish list?  yeppers!  But zero points given for that sadly. 

 

I hope this doesn't blow up into a fingerpointing match.  /salute

 

I can and do shun the monster.

I accept that this puts me at a measurable disadvantage. I'm fine with it. Just means I have to be more clever than my opponent to win, using objectives, obstacles, subterfuge and unexpected combinations in place of the ol "Front Toward Enemy" strategy.

As I said, I don't want to cast aspersions on people who play this way. They can do whatever they want, and if they're having fun I encourage them to continue. Just stating that personally I don't have fun playing the same list over and over and over, nor do I have fun playing a list that intentionally exploits weaknesses in the tournament scoring system. (Which clearly favors maximum activations and playing to table rather than to win objectives.)

YMMV

Edited by Tvayumat

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Bid is irrelevant.

Going with a four ship build. No squadrons. Aiming for fastest win possible in the mos efficient way.

Not to cast aspersions, but this is my least favorite player type to encounter either casually or in tournament.

Will you win? Statistically, yes.

Is your list fun or interesting to play against? Generally, no.

We're all playing for different reasons I suppose.

Be careful how you tread.  The Victory Point System and Tourney Rules breed this type of composition.  Stylish play isn't rewarded...yet.  You can't shun the monster (killing harder in this case) when the system keeps feeding it.

 

Case in point:  I lost a tourney last week based on Margin of Victory, to a player I had already beat.   I was 3-0, he was 2-1.  But he 'Pwned Harderest'...and I placed second based on MoV.  Did I have a stylish list?  yeppers!  But zero points given for that sadly. 

 

I hope this doesn't blow up into a fingerpointing match.  /salute

I can and do shun the monster.

I accept that this puts me at a measurable disadvantage. I'm fine with it. Just means I have to be more clever than my opponent to win, using objectives, obstacles, subterfuge and unexpected combinations in place of the ol "Front Toward Enemy" strategy.

As I said, I don't want to cast aspersions on people who play this way. They can do whatever they want, and if they're having fun I encourage them to continue. Just stating that personally I don't have fun playing the same list over and over and over, nor do I have fun playing a list that intentionally exploits weaknesses in the tournament scoring system. (Which clearly favors maximum activations and playing to table rather than to win objectives.)

YMMV

No offense taken.

I play very different when playing casual. When at a tourney, there's money involved (entry fee), plus a ton of swag ( Sullust ), so of course I'm going to bring the absolute most efficient brutal fleet I can manage, and I completely expect the opposition to do the same.

No tourney, playing for fun? A different story, and I'm bringing whatever I think would be thematic/fun.

Tourneys are by definition a highly competitive environment. If you participate in a tourney, then you should come with that mind set, because while I will absolutely follow the rules and be a sport, I'm also going to be totally ruthless.

Example: last tourney my first opponent was a 15 or so year old kid, there with his dad, who was also playing. He was flying an imp list. Did I win? Yes, but through the game, I pointed out several mistakes he made, allowed him to make corrections out of sequence and generally cut him a ton of slack. He had a lot of fun, he said and learned a lot, for which he thanked me. My last opponent was a seasoned player, who came in second tourney before this one, so I cut him zero slack, and took advantage of every single error he made.

I think you would be ok playing me casual, but not tourney. It all depends on the setting.

Oh and someone asked....I always fly Empire. Even got the uniform...lol.

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Bid is irrelevant.

Going with a four ship build. No squadrons. Aiming for fastest win possible in the mos efficient way.

Not to cast aspersions, but this is my least favorite player type to encounter either casually or in tournament.

Will you win? Statistically, yes.

Is your list fun or interesting to play against? Generally, no.

We're all playing for different reasons I suppose.

Be careful how you tread.  The Victory Point System and Tourney Rules breed this type of composition.  Stylish play isn't rewarded...yet.  You can't shun the monster (killing harder in this case) when the system keeps feeding it.

 

Case in point:  I lost a tourney last week based on Margin of Victory, to a player I had already beat.   I was 3-0, he was 2-1.  But he 'Pwned Harderest'...and I placed second based on MoV.  Did I have a stylish list?  yeppers!  But zero points given for that sadly. 

 

I hope this doesn't blow up into a fingerpointing match.  /salute

I can and do shun the monster.

I accept that this puts me at a measurable disadvantage. I'm fine with it. Just means I have to be more clever than my opponent to win, using objectives, obstacles, subterfuge and unexpected combinations in place of the ol "Front Toward Enemy" strategy.

As I said, I don't want to cast aspersions on people who play this way. They can do whatever they want, and if they're having fun I encourage them to continue. Just stating that personally I don't have fun playing the same list over and over and over, nor do I have fun playing a list that intentionally exploits weaknesses in the tournament scoring system. (Which clearly favors maximum activations and playing to table rather than to win objectives.)

YMMV

No offense taken.

I play very different when playing casual. When at a tourney, there's money involved (entry fee), plus a ton of swag ( Sullust ), so of course I'm going to bring the absolute most efficient brutal fleet I can manage, and I completely expect the opposition to do the same.

No tourney, playing for fun? A different story, and I'm bringing whatever I think would be thematic/fun.

Tourneys are by definition a highly competitive environment. If you participate in a tourney, then you should come with that mind set, because while I will absolutely follow the rules and be a sport, I'm also going to be totally ruthless.

Example: last tourney my first opponent was a 15 or so year old kid, there with his dad, who was also playing. He was flying an imp list. Did I win? Yes, but through the game, I pointed out several mistakes he made, allowed him to make corrections out of sequence and generally cut him a ton of slack. He had a lot of fun, he said and learned a lot, for which he thanked me. My last opponent was a seasoned player, who came in second tourney before this one, so I cut him zero slack, and took advantage of every single error he made.

I think you would be ok playing me casual, but not tourney. It all depends on the setting.

Oh and someone asked....I always fly Empire. Even got the uniform...lol.

 

 

I'm in agreement with all this... except the always fly empire part.  :)   I prefer rebels, but for the sullust tourney I'm going with imps.

 

I'm just debating on 1 vsd and 2 gsd or 1 vsd and 3 gsd's...  The 2 gsd build has a few ints to help tie down some squadrons but I also realize I'll be donating 33 points.  Just not sure which one to go with yet.

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