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Pits and hero figures

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What happens if a hero figure(i.e. Bertram from Respected Citizen encounter 2 in Shadows of Nerekhall campaign) moves into a pit space? The quest guide that Bertram can only perform 1 move action and 1 attack action per turn. Does he get stuck in the pit without a way out or does he lose one action to climb out and may still either attack or move?

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Rules Question:

In "The Monster's Hoard, Friedrich can't perform actions other than a move action. What happens if he gets stunned (or burned, or bleeding)? Can he spend an action to discard that card, or can he not? Similarly, a familiar like a Reanimate has a move action, and its card gives it an attack action. Can it discard the "Stun" condition by performing an action, or is it limited to just those two? Thanks!

 

Answer:

If Friedrich or a Reanimate becomes Stunned, Burned, or Bleeding, they gain the ability to spend one of their actions on the action granted by the card. This action would replace 1 of their normal actions. So for example a Reanimate could attack and clear Stun or move and clear Stun.

 

I can only assume the same is true for Bertram. One of his actions gets to be "get out of the pit." WHY would the OL move him into a pit?

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WHY would the OL move him into a pit?

 

 

To deal 2 damage to him and take away one of his actions since he is controlled by the heroes in the 2nd encounter and killing him gets the OL a citizen card. Thank you for the reply and answer.

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Rules Question:
In "The Monster's Hoard, Friedrich can't perform actions other than a move action. What happens if he gets stunned (or burned, or bleeding)? Can he spend an action to discard that card, or can he not? Similarly, a familiar like a Reanimate has a move action, and its card gives it an attack action. Can it discard the "Stun" condition by performing an action, or is it limited to just those two? Thanks!
 
Answer:
If Friedrich or a Reanimate becomes Stunned, Burned, or Bleeding, they gain the ability to spend one of their actions on the action granted by the card. This action would replace 1 of their normal actions. So for example a Reanimate could attack and clear Stun or move and clear Stun.

 

 

Hi, just a small question. Where exactly can I find this Question/Answer? We had this very same situation recently in "The Monster's Hoard" and our OL insisted that, since Friedrich can't perform other actions than a move action and it was on the Campaign Book, it didn't matter what the Stun card said as the Campaign Book rules prevail over any other rule.

 

Obviously the heroes disagreed and this adventure is still pending resolution heheheh

 

Thank you in advance!

 

******EDIT: Thank you, this question has already been answered in a different thread.******

Edited by kaiya

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Rules Question:
In "The Monster's Hoard, Friedrich can't perform actions other than a move action. What happens if he gets stunned (or burned, or bleeding)? Can he spend an action to discard that card, or can he not? Similarly, a familiar like a Reanimate has a move action, and its card gives it an attack action. Can it discard the "Stun" condition by performing an action, or is it limited to just those two? Thanks!
 
Answer:
If Friedrich or a Reanimate becomes Stunned, Burned, or Bleeding, they gain the ability to spend one of their actions on the action granted by the card. This action would replace 1 of their normal actions. So for example a Reanimate could attack and clear Stun or move and clear Stun.
 
I can only assume the same is true for Bertram. One of his actions gets to be "get out of the pit." WHY would the OL move him into a pit?

 

I agree with how to deal with Reanimate however not with Friedrich. In "The monster's hoard" the campaign rule is defined Friedich  as "he cannot perform any others actions", then he cannot quit the stunned condition. It is different "only to perform one action" that "he cannot perform any others actions". When only to perform one action, you can gain others actions to deal with it. However, when "you cannot perform any others actions", you canNOT, the hero can not do any others action than move. Then if Friedich gain an action to gain heal also cannot do it. Campaign rules over cards.

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The base rulebook states on page 17 "The familiar may perform additional types of actions during its activation, as noted on its Familiar card....If no such other actions are noted, then all the familiar can do on its turn is move up to its Speed value."

 

This says that all a familiar can do is move or do an action on its card. The Reanimate states that it can perform an attack during its turn. By your reasoning, the Reanimate cannot get out of a stun because the rules and card say that only a move and attack action can be performed. By saying he can perform no other actions, it is referencing the default actions that heroes can perform.

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Rules Question:
In "The Monster's Hoard, Friedrich can't perform actions other than a move action. What happens if he gets stunned (or burned, or bleeding)? Can he spend an action to discard that card, or can he not? Similarly, a familiar like a Reanimate has a move action, and its card gives it an attack action. Can it discard the "Stun" condition by performing an action, or is it limited to just those two? Thanks!
 
Answer:
If Friedrich or a Reanimate becomes Stunned, Burned, or Bleeding, they gain the ability to spend one of their actions on the action granted by the card. This action would replace 1 of their normal actions. So for example a Reanimate could attack and clear Stun or move and clear Stun.
 
I can only assume the same is true for Bertram. One of his actions gets to be "get out of the pit." WHY would the OL move him into a pit?

 

I agree with how to deal with Reanimate however not with Friedrich. In "The monster's hoard" the campaign rule is defined Friedich  as "he cannot perform any others actions", then he cannot quit the stunned condition. It is different "only to perform one action" that "he cannot perform any others actions". When only to perform one action, you can gain others actions to deal with it. However, when "you cannot perform any others actions", you canNOT, the hero can not do any others action than move. Then if Friedich gain an action to gain heal also cannot do it. Campaign rules over cards.

 

It is the same principal. FFG has stated that he can use one of his actions to remove a condition 

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so... can a familiar open a door or discard a condition token as stuned, bleeding , burned ?

No. A familiar cannot open a door, However, as far as I know a familiar could spend an action to climb out of a pit. It can discard stun, burn, bleeding as actions as well.

Edited by Zaltyre

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If a monster (maybe 2x1 or bigger) starts move from pit space to other space ( It occupied other normal space before move),  will it be effected by pits?

 

ex. 

                M[M]→

                   [   ]       

 

         M = 2x1 monster

         [   ]  = pits 

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If a monster (maybe 2x1 or bigger) starts move from pit space to other space ( It occupied other normal space before move),  will it be effected by pits?

 

ex. 

                M[M]→

                   [   ]       

 

         M = 2x1 monster

         [   ]  = pits 

 

The monster will not be affected by the pit in that case, because it never entered a space containing a pit, it simply exited one. This does allow large monsters to effectively 'jump' over pits by using one move action to move up to the pit, expand onto it, and then another move action to move off.

 

This works for water as well.

Edited by Charmy

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Charmy.. I'm not sure I understand your explanations...
In the rule book it says (p 18) "Large monsters are only affected by pits if they end their movement and all spaces they occupy are pit spaces."
 

doesn't this means that while "shrinked" pit spaces are treated as normal ones and only when expanding you must take care to be on at least one non pit space to avoid the pit effects ?

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If a monster (maybe 2x1 or bigger) starts move from pit space to other space ( It occupied other normal space before move),  will it be effected by pits?

 

ex. 

                M[M]→

                   [   ]       

 

         M = 2x1 monster

         [   ]  = pits 

 

The monster will not be affected by the pit in that case, because it never entered a space containing a pit, it simply exited one. This does allow large monsters to effectively 'jump' over pits by using one move action to move up to the pit, expand onto it, and then another move action to move off.

 

This works for water as well.

 

 

Right. But you have to use both your actions for that to work. If you want to attack a hero for example. Then you would be effected by the water/lava and so on

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A 2x2 monster will never suffer damage from a pit unless it is

1) expanded (fron ending or interrupting)

AND

2) in 4 pit spaces.

edcy was referring to a 2x1 monster originally, but regardless, that is one thing I have been fuzzy on. I only ignore pit spaces for large monsters when they are expanded and don't cover all spaces of the monster.

 

For any monsters larger than 1x1, I still assume they have officially 'shrunk' to 1x1 size while they are traveling, and thus can be hurt by pit spaces when they enter them.

 

If this wasn't the case, then a large monster can essentially fly over as many pit spaces in a row as they have moment and not fall in until they end their move and expand. Even then, they still don't fall in if they can figure out a way to expand such that at least one part of them touches a non-pit space. That seems wrong to me and makes no sense thematically, especially on the tile that contains a large chasm several pit spaces across.

 

Sadly, RAW seems to favor this interpretation.

Edited by Charmy

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RAW basically says that large monsters can step over pits without issue as long as they are bigger than the pit is. That makes sense to me- even while the monster is "shrunk" it is still a large monster. Occupying a space only occurs on interruption- if you are just passing through, that isn't occupying a space.

Edited by Zaltyre

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Sorry , where can I see RAW's explain?(Basic Rule?)

 

By the way , There is a text in P.16

 

"When large monsters enter a space containing terrain, they are affected just like any single-spaced figure. When large monsters end their movement and their bases are placed on terrain that they did not move through, refer to the individual terrain rules for what effects, if any, apply to the large monster."

 

and P.18 is "....If a figure enters a space containing a pit, that figure falls into the pit, suffers two damage, and ends its move action............Large monsters are only affected by pits if they end their movement and all spaces they occupy are pit spaces." for pits . 

 

Combining both the text, I consider that large monsters that shrink to 1x1 during move will be effected by terrain. If a shrink monster moves into Lava or Pit , it still suffers 2 dmg and stops moving by Pits, even it can occupy 1 normal space.

 

But I can't be sure if a 2x1 monster occupies a normal space and a pit space and then it shrinks into the pit space , must it get out to be first action ?

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Combining both the text, I consider that large monsters that shrink to 1x1 during move will be effected by terrain. If a shrink monster moves into Lava or Pit , it still suffers 2 dmg and stops moving by Pits, even it can occupy 1 normal space.

RAW is an acronym referring to "Rules As Written".

 

You make a great point though. Pits are listed under the "Terrain" category in the rulebook, which means that Pits are a type of terrain. If moving large monsters are affected by terrain 'as if" they were 1x1 creatures then this strongly suggests that pits work on them.

 

I think the additional rule about pits only affecting large monsters when all the spaces they occupy are pit spaces refers to when the monster is expanded only.

 

Either way, might be worth asking FFG about it. This ruling makes the most sense to me for sure though, as it makes pits consistent with Lava and Water, which are other forms of Terrain.

Edited by Charmy

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Sorry , where can I see RAW's explain?(Basic Rule?)

 

By the way , There is a text in P.16

 

"When large monsters enter a space containing terrain, they are affected just like any single-spaced figure. When large monsters end their movement and their bases are placed on terrain that they did not move through, refer to the individual terrain rules for what effects, if any, apply to the large monster."

 

and P.18 is "....If a figure enters a space containing a pit, that figure falls into the pit, suffers two damage, and ends its move action............Large monsters are only affected by pits if they end their movement and all spaces they occupy are pit spaces." for pits . 

 

Combining both the text, I consider that large monsters that shrink to 1x1 during move will be effected by terrain. If a shrink monster moves into Lava or Pit , it still suffers 2 dmg and stops moving by Pits, even it can occupy 1 normal space.

 

But I can't be sure if a 2x1 monster occupies a normal space and a pit space and then it shrinks into the pit space , must it get out to be first action ?

 

What makes me think that pits are not following the same rules as other terrains is the word "only" in the sentence :"Large monsters are only affected by pits if they end their movement and all spaces they occupy are pit spaces".

For me this mean only this case triggers the consequence : nothing else...

But as I'm not fluent in english probably I could be wrong.. why I asked thge questions in the first place ! ;-)

 

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If you check the errata it seems they are not affected:

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/ce/d7/ced72c29-a9f9-4914-9819-9b477d929157/descent_second_edition_faq_v15.pdf

 

It reads (I added the bold for the relevant part for large monsters):

Page 18, “Pit”:
 This section should read, “Pit spaces are defined by a
green line surrounding them. Each time a figure enters a pit space, that
figure suffers two damage. A figure in a pit space cannot spend movement
points. Other game effects that move a figure a number of spaces or place
a figure in a different space without spending movement points can
be used to exit a pit space. A figure in a pit space only has line of sight
to adjacent figures, and only figures adjacent to a pit space have line of
sight to a figure in that pit space. As an action, a figure in a pit space may
remove his figure from the map and place it in an adjacent empty space;
if there is no adjacent empty space, the figure cannot perform this action.
Large monsters suffer the effects of entering and being in a pit space only
if their movement ends or is interrupted so that each space they occupy is
a pit space.

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The two ruling contradict each other somewhat.

Pits are rare in this game, so it won't come up very often, but if you take that ruling to its logical conclusion, then imagine the following 'imaginary tile'.

 

[ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]

[ ] [ ] [P] [P] [P] [P] [P] [P] [ ]

[ ] [ ] [P] [P] [P] [P] [P] [P] [ ]

[M] [M] [P] [P] [P] [P] [P] [P] [*]

[ ] [ ] [P] [P] [P] [P] [P] [P] [ ]

[ ] [ ] [P] [P] [P] [P] [P] [P] [ ]

[ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ]
 

P = Pit

M = 2 x 1 monster

* = Goal

 

A large monster trying to get to the goal here with a speed of 6 would be able to get to the goal in a single move action by moving over 6 squares of pits and then expanding such that their base touches the *. So, yea, I guess thematically I have to imagine the monster grew wings for awhile.

 

Seems lame to me, but I'll defer to RAW since the situation will never really come up I guess.

Edited by Charmy

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