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Captain_Arrr

Tear apart my Bossk List

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I have done well with this list but I am concerned it has a weakness that could be exploited.  Let me know what you think.  Where is its weakness?  How can I counter it?

 

Bossk

Marksmanship

Gunner

Intertial Dampenders

 

Hired Gun

Tlt

R4 Agro.  x2

 

Total: 100

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Quad TLT. Go with the Outlaw Tech + K4 combo so you can always modify dice. Gunner is a waste against 1 agility. Calculation is better than Marksmanship here as it works with the outlaw tech focus and saves you 2 points. Downgrade the R4's to Unhinged Astros to save another 2. Put the 4 points into Engine on Bossk.

You could also cut more points ou to get PS 4 Y's.

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I agree with ParaGoomba Slayer about removing R4s from the Hired Guns.  Yes you get to modify both attacks, but the TLT is good enough on its own.  Unhinged is a good choice as well, but you could even do without those if you wanted.

 

If you are set on running Gunner, Marksmanship is better than calculation.  However, given the nature of Bossk's ability, Gunner should not be triggering often.  This is especially true if you put on the K4 security droid.  Last time I ran Bossk, I didn't even use the Outlaw Tech because I wasn't running calc (used Opportunist with Mangler Cannon and merc copilot instead), so I had a lot of flexibility to get my crits off.  I usually did a green to get K4 to trigger and took a focus action, which led to a heavily modified attack that never failed.  It was even more devastating when Opportunist could trigger (thanks to Palob usually).  I digress.

 

Your list is a different take on Bossk.  If you had some reason to miss the first attack, other than high agility targets, then I could see Gunner working out well.  However, if you went this route I would HIGHLY recommend tactician.  That way gunner is doing something besides giving you that 'possible' second attack chance.  You could purposefully not modify your first attack to try and trigger gunner and use your modification on the second attack.

 

Say you delete your R4s, and wipe out all of Bossk's upgrades, you have 13 points to play with.  Some possible ideas besides your own include but are not limited to:

 

Opportunist + K4 + Mangler + Merc Copilot (not recommended w/o Palob)

Calculation + K4 + Outlaw Tech + Merc Copilot + Engine + 1 point to spare (ID)

Marksmanship + Gunner + Tactician + K4

Calculation + Mangler + K4 + Outlaw Tech + Intel Agent + Maneuvering Fins + 1 point to spare (ID)

 

Looking at the weakness to your list as large numbers of TLTs, you want something that can take them down quickly.  Generally, TLT carriers will be 1 agility ships, but some people roll with HWKs at 2 agility.  Either way, you should be able to punch through that agility with Bossk and pour on the crits.  I don't think you need gunner to do this.  Stress isn't going to help you kill those TLTs much faster (in my opinion) because the opponent could just ignore their actions in favor of movement to keep the TLTs mobile.  Keep in mind that each of the load outs listed above play differently as well.  Bosskortunist is happy sitting at range 3 with mangler and merc copilot shots, where as the calculation Bossk w/o mangler wants range 1 shots to hit incredibly hard (hence the engine).  Calc Bossk with mangler and intel agent can adjust to work with both.  You have multiple ways to get crits, have the zero maneuver as an option more often as needed, and can reposition turns with maneuvering fins.

 

Because you cannot really boost your D on Bossk, you need to make him hit harder the first time, or have some amazing benefit for missing and triggering a second attack (I don't see the latter happening with Bossk pilot...Bossk crew on the other hand...).  If you are going to run Gunner, at least throw in Tactician and K4 so you can save your heavily modified attack for the second time around and hope you get to strip some tokens.

Edited by Deepspace5

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I agree with ParaGoomba Slayer about removing R4s from the Hired Guns.  Yes you get to modify both attacks, but the TLT is good enough on its own.  Unhinged is a good choice as well, but you could even do without those if you wanted.

 

If you are set on running Gunner, Marksmanship is better than calculation.  However, given the nature of Bossk's ability, Gunner should not be triggering often.  This is especially true if you put on the K4 security droid.  Last time I ran Bossk, I didn't even use the Outlaw Tech because I wasn't running calc (used Opportunist with Mangler Cannon and merc copilot instead), so I had a lot of flexibility to get my crits off.  I usually did a green to get K4 to trigger and took a focus action, which led to a heavily modified attack that never failed.  It was even more devastating when Opportunist could trigger (thanks to Palob usually).  I digress.

 

Your list is a different take on Bossk.  If you had some reason to miss the first attack, other than high agility targets, then I could see Gunner working out well.  However, if you went this route I would HIGHLY recommend tactician.  That way gunner is doing something besides giving you that 'possible' second attack chance.  You could purposefully not modify your first attack to try and trigger gunner and use your modification on the second attack.

 

Say you delete your R4s, and wipe out all of Bossk's upgrades, you have 13 points to play with.  Some possible ideas besides your own include but are not limited to:

 

Opportunist + K4 + Mangler + Merc Copilot (not recommended w/o Palob)

Calculation + K4 + Outlaw Tech + Merc Copilot + Engine + 1 point to spare (ID)

Marksmanship + Gunner + Tactician + K4

Calculation + Mangler + K4 + Outlaw Tech + Intel Agent + Maneuvering Fins + 1 point to spare (ID)

 

Looking at the weakness to your list as large numbers of TLTs, you want something that can take them down quickly.  Generally, TLT carriers will be 1 agility ships, but some people roll with HWKs at 2 agility.  Either way, you should be able to punch through that agility with Bossk and pour on the crits.  I don't think you need gunner to do this.  Stress isn't going to help you kill those TLTs much faster (in my opinion) because the opponent could just ignore their actions in favor of movement to keep the TLTs mobile.  Keep in mind that each of the load outs listed above play differently as well.  Bosskortunist is happy sitting at range 3 with mangler and merc copilot shots, where as the calculation Bossk w/o mangler wants range 1 shots to hit incredibly hard (hence the engine).  Calc Bossk with mangler and intel agent can adjust to work with both.  You have multiple ways to get crits, have the zero maneuver as an option more often as needed, and can reposition turns with maneuvering fins.

 

Because you cannot really boost your D on Bossk, you need to make him hit harder the first time, or have some amazing benefit for missing and triggering a second attack (I don't see the latter happening with Bossk pilot...Bossk crew on the other hand...).  If you are going to run Gunner, at least throw in Tactician and K4 so you can save your heavily modified attack for the second time around and hope you get to strip some tokens.

I wouldn't say I'm dead set on marksmanship and gunner. I like the combo but there is something to be said about done or not being triggered often especially at five points. He did give me impunity the fire on high agility targets but I do see your wisdom regarding not using him.

The only problem I see with some of your suggestions is the expense of them. I don't want to make my houndstooth too expensive. If I do that's a lot of points people are going to get for destroying him and I know a smart player will go after him first.

I like the idea of the unhinged on the hired guns. But I really do want to keep the hired guns because they'll shoot before the turret spam.

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 However, given the nature of Bossk's ability, Gunner should not be triggering often.   

I'm not sure what this means. Doesn't Bossk's only trigger after the attack hits? So what does his ability have to do with Gunner triggering?

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I think your list is fine. You won't always play against 4 Y's and gunner helps against arc Dodgers. 5 points on a useless card when you do play against them sucks, but the other half of your system will help when you do get damage through. Engine would be nice, especially against fast ships that can get out of your arc, but it's hard to build against everything. For one point, ID is good when stopping wasn't on your dial, or you want to stop twice in a row. I think r4's are good on your Y's if unmoddified dice worry you

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My go to Locust list (destroy everything in its path) litmus test is 5 x BSP with Calculation, Howlrunner with Determination (Juke when available) and Shield Upgrade.

 

Bossk fires first and hopefully takes down a TIE, but then the rest attacks Bossk and tears him down thanks to the rerolls and crits.

 

The Y-Wings won't do enough damage to matter in what time they have left.

 

In an optimal situation, but it is a risk and swarms, I think, are likely to make a comeback.

 

Similarly, 4 GSP's with Autothrusters, PTL and Outmaneuver should bring the hurt as well, as long as they attack from out of arc your ships have no agility.

 

Not saying those lists will destroy you outright, but they would prove troublesome.

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However, given the nature of Bossk's ability, Gunner should not be triggering often.

I'm not sure what this means. Doesn't Bossk's only trigger after the attack hits? So what does his ability have to do with Gunner triggering?

Yes Bossk's ability only triggers after the attack hits so no it has nothing to do with Gunner triggering.

Personally I don't think Gunner is the best choice regardless. It's not like you can get FCS on him.

Using the K4 and getting a TL a high percentage of the time even when blocked is way too good of an upgrade to pass up. TL and Marksmanship when not blocked? Yes please!

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However, given the nature of Bossk's ability, Gunner should not be triggering often.

I'm not sure what this means. Doesn't Bossk's only trigger after the attack hits? So what does his ability have to do with Gunner triggering?

Yes Bossk's ability only triggers after the attack hits so no it has nothing to do with Gunner triggering.

Personally I don't think Gunner is the best choice regardless. It's not like you can get FCS on him.

Using the K4 and getting a TL a high percentage of the time even when blocked is way too good of an upgrade to pass up. TL and Marksmanship when not blocked? Yes please!

 

 

Of course Bossk's ability only matters when he hits.  The point I was making is that you want to put on as much damage as possible with your one attack (or at least I do).  I was thinking in the mindset of attacking 0-2 agility ships (TLTs) the majority of the time.  If you have minimal dice modification and try and force the second attack, there is a chance that just one or two hits go through.   If you are trying to strip tokens with Gunner, that is fine.  But you may 'accidently' get lower damage through by saving your TL and focus for the second attack (Marksmanship aside). 

 

I feel like with Bossk you should always be pushing through as much damage as you can...using your TL and Focus to modify your dice to the max.  Without FCS or Tactician, Gunner just plays a small insurance role against higher agility ships.  This is assuming you have K4 and a way to get crits consistently to trigger his ability.  With Marksmanship, you can modify both attacks and push through max damage, but you only have one Target Lock to work with.  You can save it for the second attack (if it happens) or get more possible hits through on the first...  I would prefer to use it up front, unless I am attacking at Range 2 w/ Tactician.

 

So the real question is do you want to take Gunner for that insurance against higher agility ships to help you strip tokens, or do you want to increase your offense against your weakness of TLTs that are floating around...

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No problem.  I had a wall of text I was dealing with so my thoughts just didn't translate appropriately.  Now back to the OP...Gunner works VERY nicely with Bossk crew.

 

Just an example:

(40) Trandoshan Slaver + Gunner (ironically a wookiee) + Bossk + Tactician + APL

(60) Cartel Marauder x3

 

The APL could be changed up, but the concept behind Bossk crew is actually pretty scary.  Worth testing for sure.  Would this list be better against the TLT meta?  Still seems to suffer from serious arc dodgers, but you have an extra ship to spread arcs out as necessary.  The 180 degree arc of the Slaver is kind of difficult to escape, at least in my experience.

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I am considering this list.

Hired Gun

Tlt

Unhinged

27

X2

Bossk

K4

Outlaw tech

Calculation

EU

45

Solid.  TLTs have a bit of mobility after getting stressed, which can be nice.  I understand you not wanting to put all of your points onto a single ship, but merc copilot is also a decent option on Bossk over the Unhinged.

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I also haven't discounted the slaver. I've actually contemplated putting it in my list with gunner and our lizard friend. However I just haven't thought of a good co-pilot with it.

also should I consider taking out the engine for a mangler cannon?

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Of course Bossk's ability only matters when he hits.  The point I was making is that you want to put on as much damage as possible with your one attack (or at least I do).  I was thinking in the mindset of attacking 0-2 agility ships (TLTs) the majority of the time.  If you have minimal dice modification and try and force the second attack, there is a chance that just one or two hits go through.   If you are trying to strip tokens with Gunner, that is fine.  But you may 'accidently' get lower damage through by saving your TL and focus for the second attack (Marksmanship aside). 

 

I feel like with Bossk you should always be pushing through as much damage as you can...using your TL and Focus to modify your dice to the max.  Without FCS or Tactician, Gunner just plays a small insurance role against higher agility ships.  This is assuming you have K4 and a way to get crits consistently to trigger his ability.  With Marksmanship, you can modify both attacks and push through max damage, but you only have one Target Lock to work with.  You can save it for the second attack (if it happens) or get more possible hits through on the first...  I would prefer to use it up front, unless I am attacking at Range 2 w/ Tactician.

 

So the real question is do you want to take Gunner for that insurance against higher agility ships to help you strip tokens, or do you want to increase your offense against your weakness of TLTs that are floating around...

You can call it a "small insurance policy" if you want but I see it as more of a very pricy and frequently useless upgrade.

Give me an HLC for 2 extra points, roll 4 dice at range 2 and 3, spend target lock that you picked up from the K4 and use Marksmanship that you declared as your action. That's maximizing damage.

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Nice discussion here. I wanted to share a build that a friend of mine is using to great success against me:

2x syndicate thug, TLT

1x Bossk,Hlc,calc,EU,k4 and outlaw tech.

Very similar to a list that I put together but haven't had a chance to run yet. In mine I'm dropping the EU and Calculating off, giving him Marksmanship and giving each of the Y-Wings an Unhinged Astromech. I also toyed with the idea of giving Bossk Anti Pursuit Lasers or the Ion Projector instead of Outlaw Tech but I think getting a focus when doing a red maneuver trumps them both.

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I think the OP has a nice set up that covers a lot of different ships.  If Bossk is able to strip tokens and use Gunner, you can bet the TLT's will have an easier time hitting the same target.

 

One thing that I keep thinking about is how I always feel naked without a few cheap ships.  What about getting rid of one TLT Y-wing and put in 2 generic Z-95's?  They can rush in at R1 of TLT Y-wings and get 3 red dice on the attack.  They are two ships that are harder to destroy than one Y-wing.  They both get a Focus to defend against TLT's. 

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So far I've really enjoyed running TLT's in pairs (or more). The majority of the time I've put a single Z in amongst other ships. I know you have had decent success with them as has another friend of mine. I should probably break them out a little more to see how it goes.

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I also haven't discounted the slaver. I've actually contemplated putting it in my list with gunner and our lizard friend. However I just haven't thought of a good co-pilot with it.

also should I consider taking out the engine for a mangler cannon?

 

I have had better success with Mangler Cannon in this case, but I'm not a huge engine user to begin with.  Worth testing with both.  When I used Mangler, it was actually really easy to get ships in that arc...it's not like it's smaller than a normal arc.  The GUARANTEED crit when you hit is just fantastic...and with merc copilot I was often getting two crits per shot, which still left me with powerful crits after using Bossk's ability.

 

Co-pilot as in a third crew for the slaver or other ships?

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I also haven't discounted the slaver. I've actually contemplated putting it in my list with gunner and our lizard friend. However I just haven't thought of a good co-pilot with it.

also should I consider taking out the engine for a mangler cannon?

 

I have had better success with Mangler Cannon in this case, but I'm not a huge engine user to begin with.  Worth testing with both.  When I used Mangler, it was actually really easy to get ships in that arc...it's not like it's smaller than a normal arc.  The GUARANTEED crit when you hit is just fantastic...and with merc copilot I was often getting two crits per shot, which still left me with powerful crits after using Bossk's ability.

 

Co-pilot as in a third crew for the slaver or other ships?

I tried the list yesterday against someone with the engine upgrade. The list did very well but he had no experience with twin laser turrets or the houndstooth. I have a small tournament I will be attending today and I'll keep the engine upgrade on it for now. The only thing I don't like about the Mangler cannon is that it only works in the 90 degree front arc

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