Gamesmanship or competitive? opinions

[Higgo 42]

hi all,

I had an interesting occurrence in my tourney today. I was playing with a large base ship and forgot completely that i couldn't do red manoeuvres when stressed (yes i appreciate the stupidity!). So i revealed a red and my opponent took the dial and proceeded to direct me right to the table edge where the next turn i could do nothing but fly off.

 

Now it really peed me off because I wouldn't do it myself. I'd probably look at what the player would have done if they didn't have a brain fart. (in another game the opposite player actually revealed the wrong direction manoeuvre and i let them change it as otherwise they were flying off the edge so it was an obvious mistake)

 

I suppose my question is- is this perfectly acceptable and I'm just not that competitive?

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

It's acceptable, and what the rules say you do (pass the dial over).

 

Would everyone do it? No. But CAN everyone do it? yes. It's the opponent's choice. Do they let you off (which in the end might lose them the game) or do they do what they can with the dial to mess up that ship (ideally, killing it on the board edge)

 

It's totally player choice. As long as neither side is crappy about it to the other person, whatever happens is all good.

 

 

For me personally, it would depend where I was in the tourney and who I was playing. Bottom tables, I'd let stuff slide just to have some fun games. Middle to upper tables, total competitive play.

[Firespray-32 5,424]

It's not wrong for them to do it: it's permitted within the ruleset and the rule exists such that a player will never deliberately plot a red while stressed: your ship will always do the worst maneuver for the situation. That you wouldn't fly them off the board reflects well on you, so long as you don't get angry when other players to return the favour.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Blue Five

[nathankc 676]

Yeah - their attitude while doing that might help or hurt your reaction as well. If they were apologetic and knew it was painful to you to see that happen i.e. - 'oh man....I'm sorry but you know I have to do this....sorry man!'  - versus "haha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders!" 

[AlexW 2,902]

hi all,

I had an interesting occurrence in my tourney today. I was playing with a large base ship and forgot completely that i couldn't do red manoeuvres when stressed (yes i appreciate the stupidity!). So i revealed a red and my opponent took the dial and proceeded to direct me right to the table edge where the next turn i could do nothing but fly off.

Now it really peed me off because I wouldn't do it myself. I'd probably look at what the player would have done if they didn't have a brain fart. (in another game the opposite player actually revealed the wrong direction manoeuvre and i let them change it as otherwise they were flying off the edge so it was an obvious mistake)

I suppose my question is- is this perfectly acceptable and I'm just not that competitive.

The rule is there for a reason. I've heard an FFG OP official explain that to a player who selected a move to keep his opponent on the board (though it still wasn't an ideal move) when he could have flown him off. In other words, if you've placed a red maneuver while stressed you should expect to end up in the worst possible position after handing your opponent your dial.

That said, in casual games, I don't fly people off the board because I want to learn more from the game. I don't expect that same line of thinking from other players, however, that's my own personal choice.

Your situation was in a tourney, so you shouldn't have expected anything different either for any reason. I'll add that if you really weren't that competitive, you probably wouldn't have cared that he flew you off the board, right?

Edited September 19, 2015 by AlexW

[Joker Two 639]

The rule isn't really a punishment for making a mistake (although it's understandable to feel that way).  It's a way to resolve an impossible game state without allowing the player who made the mistake to benefit from hidden information that has since been revealed (you might be able to "rewind" ship maneuvers, but not the player's knowledge of them).

[Higgo 42]

Thanks for the opinions guys. I also never thought about it from the "doing a red on purpose" perspective. I still don't think i could do it myself. It just wouldn't feel like a fair win. I think I'm probably not a "win first" person. 

[Darth Emphatic 148]

Tourney - absolutely do it and wouldnt get mad if someone did it to me. Casual play - would depend why we are playing. If it was a tourney prep, I would totally do it. There really isnt a good way to back this off anyway. Cant let you fix it because youve likely seen where is ships are. He shouldnt really waste time,trying to figure what doesnt help you but avoids killing you.

[Parravon 5,217]

I've had it done to me so I'd do it in an instant, casual play or not. It's one less ship to kill. And because by dice are so strong with the Dark Side (they never do me any favours at least), I need to maximise every opportunity I can. Once you have it done to you, you'll find your cranium flatulence issues will be few and far between after that.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Parravon

[StevenO 2,996]

You perform a Red while Stressed there are three options for your opponent to consider:

 

1.  Your opponent flies you off the board or puts in you in a position where that is almost guaranteed to happen.

2.  Your opponent chooses some other legal maneuver that puts you in a very bad position but which may not lead to instant death without other things happening.

3.  Your opponent thinks about what you would have set the dial to that isn't red and uses that.

 

In a tournament or some other game where the stakes really matter you're going to see option #1 chosen and should just expect that.  If you are playing a more casual game where who wins and loses doesn't really matter I'd expect to see a bit more option #2 although if your opponent points out the #1 option that should be seen as a learning experience.  The only time I could really see #3 getting used is when you are training someone else and don't want to crush their dreams although pointing out the #1 and #2 possibilities is very reasonable even if they are not selected.

[Crawfskeezen 370]

I've flown my opponent into a rock before... But off the borad is harsh in a casual game. In a tourney tho I'd understand.

[Holmelund 778]

Your opponent did the right thing as far as I am concerned.
It´s a tournamnet, you are supposed to bring your A-game and making mistakes that big should be punished.

Console yourself with the knowledge that you wont make that mistake again

[Stoneface 3,750]

In casual play I have flown an opponent off the board and the same has been done to me. No hard feelings or ruffled feathers on either side. We looked at it as part of the game. Comes under the heading of "crap happens". As mentioned elsewhere the attitude of the person redirecting you ship is important. I feel the same way when my opponent misgauges a turn, hits a rock and dies. I feel bad for the opponent for losing a ship due to an accident but I'm happy that I have one less ship to face. I can't claim my opponent feels the same way when he does it to me but so far he hasn't broken into his happy dance.

[Slugrage 5,011]

I'd do it in an instant, in a casual game or tournament.

[ScootyPuffJunior 51]

I've accidentally revealed a red maneuver while stressed in a tournament, but I wasn't near the edge of the board so my opponent flew me onto an asteroid. I wasn't upset at all; I was the bonehead not paying attention to my ships after all! I would expect the same thing in a friendly game as well because that's what the rules are.

 

Last night, my friend's son and I were playing and he ended up flying his YV-666 off the board, giving me the win. I allowed him to put it back in play with while acknowledging that the game was over and I had won, just so we could continue to play.

[Alexrogen 9]

I think you should be mad... Mad at yourself for placing the red maneuver. As to what he did that's his call casual or not.

[Higgo 42]

Thanks for all the opinions. I really feel like i am the odd one out! I really thought it was a poor spirited thing to do to ensure you win. I just couldn't do it myself in casual or tournament

 

Just had a thought though-  a random "spin" of the dial if you do it would be a lot nicer way of resolving it (as long as it avoided a red obviously)

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

It would still be a choice though, as if they turned it without looking and it stopped between moves, they could pick which way it went. And if it kept landing on a red, it's just wasting valuable playing time.

 

Your opponent choosing is the fairest and quickest way in tournament play.

 

 

But, there's nothing stopping you personally not being as 'harsh' with it. And not every opponent you face will choose the worst for you. Just have to be prepared in event play to face such choices against you. It's the way it (usually) goes.

Edited September 21, 2015 by InterceptorMad

[Parravon 5,217]

Thanks for all the opinions. I really feel like i am the odd one out! I really thought it was a poor spirited thing to do to ensure you win. I just couldn't do it myself in casual or tournament

 

Just had a thought though-  a random "spin" of the dial if you do it would be a lot nicer way of resolving it (as long as it avoided a red obviously)

There's nothing wrong with being the nice guy and giving your opponent a break. But it is in the rules that if you choose a red while you're stressed you hand over your dial. While you might give your opponent a break in a tournament, if the situation reversed later in the same game, would he give you a break?

 

It may sound like some of us can be a bit harsh, but it's not really a big deal and you'll only let it happen to you once or twice. I've got into the habit of when I'm planning, I look at my ship to check for a stress token first. That tells me straight away if my options are limited or not. The other trick I use is when my ship has turned around on the board and is actually facing me, I turn my dial around as well so I don't choose a maneuver that's going to fly me in the opposite direction. I'm effectively planning with the dial upside down, but not facedown, if you know what I mean. Two little tricks that have served me well.

[Sergovan 1,440]

I had this happen in regionals in 2014. My opponent had forgotten to set his dial for his YT-1300 and revealed and moved his 2 B-wings first. I then went to move my PS 2 and  I asked where the dial for the YT-1300 was. My opponent then realized his mistake. I knew what the consequences were but I called over the T.O. anyways for a proper judgement. I got to set the maneuver on the dial for the YT-1300. 2/3rds of the maneuvers would sent the ship off the board. I picked one of them and I flew the YT-1300 off the board. It was round 2 of regionals. I came in 12th overall, losing the 4th round must win match vs the future Canadian champion.

 

I told the guy that lost the YT-1300 that I didn't like the outcome but it was one of those learning mistakes. You do it once, and then you never forget.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Sergovan

[Slugrage 5,011]

 

Thanks for all the opinions. I really feel like i am the odd one out! I really thought it was a poor spirited thing to do to ensure you win. I just couldn't do it myself in casual or tournament

 

Just had a thought though-  a random "spin" of the dial if you do it would be a lot nicer way of resolving it (as long as it avoided a red obviously)

There's nothing wrong with being the nice guy and giving your opponent a break. But it is in the rules that if you choose a red while you're stressed you hand over your dial. While you might give your opponent a break in a tournament, if the situation reversed later in the same game, would he give you a break?

 

It may sound like some of us can be a bit harsh, but it's not really a big deal and you'll only let it happen to you once or twice. I've got into the habit of when I'm planning, I look at my ship to check for a stress token first. That tells me straight away if my options are limited or not. The other trick I use is when my ship has turned around on the board and is actually facing me, I turn my dial around as well so I don't choose a maneuver that's going to fly me in the opposite direction. I'm effectively planning with the dial upside down, but not facedown, if you know what I mean. Two little tricks that have served me well.

 

This. It's one of the first "advanced" techniques I teach any new-comer to the game.

 

And as for running someone off the map? In a casual game I do it so that hopefully they'll remember to not do it in a tournament. In a tournament, I'm there to win.

[Parravon 5,217]

 

 

Thanks for all the opinions. I really feel like i am the odd one out! I really thought it was a poor spirited thing to do to ensure you win. I just couldn't do it myself in casual or tournament

 

Just had a thought though-  a random "spin" of the dial if you do it would be a lot nicer way of resolving it (as long as it avoided a red obviously)

There's nothing wrong with being the nice guy and giving your opponent a break. But it is in the rules that if you choose a red while you're stressed you hand over your dial. While you might give your opponent a break in a tournament, if the situation reversed later in the same game, would he give you a break?

 

It may sound like some of us can be a bit harsh, but it's not really a big deal and you'll only let it happen to you once or twice. I've got into the habit of when I'm planning, I look at my ship to check for a stress token first. That tells me straight away if my options are limited or not. The other trick I use is when my ship has turned around on the board and is actually facing me, I turn my dial around as well so I don't choose a maneuver that's going to fly me in the opposite direction. I'm effectively planning with the dial upside down, but not facedown, if you know what I mean. Two little tricks that have served me well.

 

This. It's one of the first "advanced" techniques I teach any new-comer to the game.

 

And as for running someone off the map? In a casual game I do it so that hopefully they'll remember to not do it in a tournament. In a tournament, I'm there to win.

 

Honestly, the number of times I've seen players looking at their ship and it's facing them and they know that only a right turn or right bank will be safe, but that means the model is going to move to their left so they plan a left turn or bank. It's quite a chuckle, but so easily avoided. Just orient the dial with the ship and you can't go wrong. 

 

Unless you didn't see the stress token and still planned that red, then there's nothing that'll help you there.

[Hexdot 1,340]

Poker face, no jokes, your opponent chooses your maneuver and accept iy. X wing is very simple, and the Basics are clear. You select an Ilegal move, your oponent points you towards the point were a Huge will move next turn. And the you Ionice him. Crunch.

Bie bie 60 pts Decimator. It is the way the game works. You made a mistake, and pay for it.

[daveddo 160]

I don't go easy on them because I wouldn't want to be gone easy on. You can bet that they won't make the mistake again after you fly their ship off the board.

During casual games I give casual reminders as small talk - "That ship is stressed, right?" In tournament play, all holds are off.

[WWHSD 9,273]

In a casual game I pick a maneuver that puts them somewhere crappy. In a tournament or a league game they go off the board.