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Lightsaber Pike and Double Bladed - one handed?

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In the core rulebook, there is nothing that says the lightsaber pike and double bladed lightsaber are two handed weapons out of the gate, implying they can be wielded and used in one hand.

Vibro-axes and electro-staves do say they require two hands to wield (just for the sake of comparison).

 

Is this right?

 

Unless I specifically missed something specific, I'm going to let my players run with it.

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I believe Exar Kun (from Legends) used a single-hand double bladed lightsaber, but I'm not sure - but if so, there's a precedent for it. I also think Darth Maul was meant to, until Ray Park talked Lucas out of it.

 

Me, I would rule that both double bladed lightsabers and lightsaber pikes require two hands to use.

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Per RAW, the double-bladed lightsaber and the lightsaber pike area one-handed weapons, since they don't have the tag of needing two hands to wield that the vibro-ax, refined cortosis staff, and electrostaves have in their descriptions.  Could be an oversight on the writers' part, but then again if nobody pointed it out during the Beta process, not too surprising for such a thing to be overlooked.

 

For what it's worth, we do have canon evidence of this with regards to Star Wars Rebels and the Inquisitor's lightsaber.  At it's core, it's a double-bladed lightsaber with a few extra gimmicks.

 

As for using the staff one-handed, I'd say think of it in terms of a jousting lance, where the non-energy end is tucked under your arm.  In the real world this probably wouldn't work so hot, but since when has Star Wars given a flying frip about reality?

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Pikes are essentially spears, and there's plenty of real world evidence of Spearfighting with one hand. (Spartans.....)

 

The Double Bladed is a unique beast because it's not really a large handle, as the Pike or a Spear would have. And there's no weight like an Axe would have. It's a dangerous and awkward weapon, but the unwieldy quality sees to that. Plenty of evidence on this to be used one handed, but may not be used at it's most effectiveness.

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This leads me to a question: if a PC has a double-bladed saber, uses only one blade, does he treat his saber as having a long-handle attachment? Or does the long handle attachment count as the significantly long handles like Darth Nihl's?

 

I wouldn't; I'd just treat it as a single bladed lightsaber.  About the only thing I might grant it is removal of the Unwieldy 3 requirement when one blade is used. 

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My assumption is that the lack of specification that those are two-handed weapons are merely an oversight; I would for sure run them as requiring two hands to use in my campaign. Now, if someone temporarily needed to wield either type with one hand I'd let them, at the cost of a few setback dice or maybe a difficulty upgrade, depending on the situation.

 

If someone wanted to dual-wield a pair of double-bladed lightsabers I'd tell them no, as soon as I was done laughing.

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This leads me to a question: if a PC has a double-bladed saber, uses only one blade, does he treat his saber as having a long-handle attachment? Or does the long handle attachment count as the significantly long handles like Darth Nihl's?

 

I wouldn't; I'd just treat it as a single bladed lightsaber.  About the only thing I might grant it is removal of the Unwieldy 3 requirement when one blade is used. 

 

That's a solid rules way to handle that. I completely forgot about the Unwieldy on it until you mentioned it on the show to do the rules this way.

 

Larger question: Exar Kin was noted using a Double Bladed Saber but it was a smaller hilt than Maul's, correct? What if Darth Mail was using an Extended Hilt Double Saber? That'd make a little more sense for things. Nihl's saber was borderline Pike sized, with only the blade length being the standout (it was a regular size blade). So that could easily be a Pike with Dual Phase Modulator (or whatever it is called). Or can a Pike have a longer sized blade? The terms of dimensions for the Hilt Attachments in F&D don't give specifics in terms of size, so even "Sithcalibur" (Kylo Ren's saber) could essentially just be an Extended Curved Hilt Saber with a Barab Crystal (if it burns like it appears to). 

 

The Attachments can really allow for vague interpretations. I have a player who wants to have a Lightsaber Scyther (Staff with blade projecting perpendicular). Lightsaber Pike with Curved Hilt! 

Edited by ApocalypseZero

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Lightsaber Scyther

Now I am picturing a giant mantis monster with lightsabers for claws.

 

 

I already had in mind lightsaber claws... like Wolverine! That would be awesome! Though the mantis thing would rock also!

 

Actually, now that I think about it, it would be like Lightning Claws from WH40K. Only retractable.

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Looking at the pictures on page 176 of F&D, the double bladed lightsaber seems to be two handed.  I would say if you use it with one hand, the "Linked" special wouldn't be usable.  The double bladed hilt appears twice as large as a normal hilt.  And we have seen in the movies/cartoons  that even a normal lightsaber hilt can be used with two hands.

 

I think for the game I run it's going to require two hands.

 

As for the pike, I think this could be used with one hand, heck perhaps even go the shield & pike (spear) to mimic the Roman centurion battle style.  Think that would be an interesting idea.

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I honestly think that the size of the double-bladed hilt doesn't make it apt to be used two-handed. It seems too small.

 

I think it comes down to the hilt design. Maul's, Bastile Shan and Shatile Shan's all used double bladed lightsabters that would require two hands. Exar Kun and the Inquisitor used hilt designs that weren't big enough for two hands and thus could be used one handed. 

 

I think if you meet the requirement for overcoming Unweidly or Cumbersome you could use it one handed. However I would also rule that while using these weapons one handed you lose the benefits these weapons normally grant you. 

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I'd totally allow it - after all, the autofire-juryrigged combo is also allowed as per RAW. The only thing I'd change, as I mentioned before, would be the Unwieldy/Cumbersome stacking rules (thus penalizing carrying two, as don't think carrying one is much of a hussle). Maybe a basic Unwieldy score equal to the highest you're equipping, +1 for every other Unwieldy item. I don't know, something like that, but something. It feels totally absurd to be carrying 2 or 3 Unwieldy items without a setback.

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Use a lightsaber pike as a stabbing weapon, I would say one hand is justified. Use a lightsaber pike as a slashing weapon, as is often seen with 'saber pike users, I would say two hands is required. I'll probably rule it a two-handed weapon, but both arguments have some validity*.

 

*Arguments about practically using an incredibly impracticle RL weapon, of course, despite how cool they look.

 

EDIT: Let me clarify, the last third of my comment is referring to Double-bladed lightsabers. Not pikes.

Edited by Blackbird888

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How about 4 armed species?

 

I think the advantage a four armed species has is it clearly has enough hands to use two two handed weapons.  Admittedly, this is a little easier to do with rifle type weapons that you aren't spinning around yourself, possibly leading to strange "whoops, I parried myself" moments.

 

 For what it's worth at my table, there is a PC with a double bladed saber and an NPC with a saber pike.  Common sense says these weapons are most optimally wielded with two hands.  Now, we do have some cannon that a saber staff can be used with just one blade ignited (maybe this is a modification?) and I would say if you have the second blade extinguished it basically functions as a bog standard lightsaber without the benefit of extended hilt, as a two handed weapon designed to spin like a top would have a slightly different balance point compared to a long handled two hander balanced for maximum chopping power.  (Quarterstaves tend to balance in the middle, while a claymore tends to balance about half way between the middle by length and the pommel, depending on design, and to be fair, i have had opportunity to play with about 3 claymores in my life but all of them were within arms reach of the same balance point)  

 

Now, the saber pike is a slightly different animal.  Most spears design to be wielded with one hand are significantly shorter than their two handed sisters and brothers.  Pike, however has a connotation of "pole arm," which basically fell into two camps.  A pole arm could be a very long stabby weapon granting reach, or it increases impact force by multiplying angular momentum for long range chopping action.  Now, a lightsaber pike could probably do either of these, and a skilled user could probably find places in a "long range chop" to take the second hand off the weapon while they were say... body checking the haft to arrest momentum after a swing and show off what I like to call the "We're number one!" hand gesture from "Big Trouble in Little China" (Link to a gif of what I mean: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111132328/3668351-6-sign.gif), but for the most part unless you are just wanting to poke someone with it, I'd say it's gotta be a two handed weapon.  

 

Now, in an extreme case, say you are hanging onto the side of speeder you just got knocked off the top of with the bad guy dangling in a similarly precarious way you could still probably take a whack or two at him with either of the saber staff or the saber pike, but there would probably be some negative dice, either from trying to use a two handed weapon with one hand, or from the fact you are not keeping your arms and legs inside the vehicle until it comes to a complete stop.

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Now, the saber pike is a slightly different animal.  Most spears design to be wielded with one hand are significantly shorter than their two handed sisters and brothers.  Pike, however has a connotation of "pole arm," which basically fell into two camps.  A pole arm could be a very long stabby weapon granting reach, or it increases impact force by multiplying angular momentum for long range chopping action.  Now, a lightsaber pike could probably do either of these, and a skilled user could probably find places in a "long range chop" to take the second hand off the weapon while they were say... body checking the haft to arrest momentum after a swing and show off what I like to call the "We're number one!" hand gesture from "Big Trouble in Little China" (Link to a gif of what I mean: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111132328/3668351-6-sign.gif), but for the most part unless you are just wanting to poke someone with it, I'd say it's gotta be a two handed weapon.  

 

Whereas the stats of the Force Pike are the same as a basic saber, with Defensive added. No damage boost.

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Now, the saber pike is a slightly different animal.  Most spears design to be wielded with one hand are significantly shorter than their two handed sisters and brothers.  Pike, however has a connotation of "pole arm," which basically fell into two camps.  A pole arm could be a very long stabby weapon granting reach, or it increases impact force by multiplying angular momentum for long range chopping action.  Now, a lightsaber pike could probably do either of these, and a skilled user could probably find places in a "long range chop" to take the second hand off the weapon while they were say... body checking the haft to arrest momentum after a swing and show off what I like to call the "We're number one!" hand gesture from "Big Trouble in Little China" (Link to a gif of what I mean: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111132328/3668351-6-sign.gif), but for the most part unless you are just wanting to poke someone with it, I'd say it's gotta be a two handed weapon.  

 

Whereas the stats of the Force Pike are the same as a basic saber, with Defensive added. No damage boost.

 

And two less hardpoints...  >.> <.<  But yeah, sorry, my analysis of the weapons was from a purely structural "if this were a real thing" kind of way as a justification of in game mechanics.

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I think species with four arms are the exceptions and that in general they can likely do somethings better, like making use of two double bladed lightsabres. Still I don't see a practical point in it. Having two extra hands doesn't give you extra actions, thus there is no overall benefit. You'd have to roll really well to hit with both double bladed lightsabres and then use their linked qualities too. 

 

I don't think I would stack Unweidly or Cumbersome either. Like I said I'd just rule that if you aren't using them two handed you then the benefits these weapons give you don't apply. And if you happen to have an extra pair of arms ...... well good luck on rolling enough Success/Advantages to pull off everything. 

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