Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Kasuvari

Playing without a Core Set (or, my problems with the new damage deck)

Recommended Posts

 

 

I'm going to ask one thing.

 

Honest answers please:

 

Who here have actually purchased the x-wing Dice set rather than just a second core to get extra bits?

I bought the extra dice set.   Still don't have a second core.   I probably will get the new core, but I sure don't need any extra bits.   

 

 

So far you are the only one I've heard of.

 

Nobody goes there any more, it's too crowded.

 

Don't make assumptions based on very limited input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

I'm going to ask one thing.

 

Honest answers please:

 

Who here have actually purchased the x-wing Dice set rather than just a second core to get extra bits?

I bought the extra dice set.   Still don't have a second core.   I probably will get the new core, but I sure don't need any extra bits.   

 

 

So far you are the only one I've heard of.

 

Nobody goes there any more, it's too crowded.

 

Don't make assumptions based on very limited input.

 

 

An assumption is an inferral of data. I'm inferring based on findings. It's from a select amount, but still, only a very small percentage of said amount who answered bought extra dice in lieu of a second core set.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It comes down to this.  Do you play competitively or not?

 

If you do....then YES you will have to get a new core set.  Not just for the damage deck, but for the 6 new asteroids.  Also you having the new deck puts you on the same equal level as the other competitive players who will have them as well.

 

If you are a casual player then no...don't buy it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

I'm going to ask one thing.

 

Honest answers please:

 

Who here have actually purchased the x-wing Dice set rather than just a second core to get extra bits?

I bought the extra dice set.   Still don't have a second core.   I probably will get the new core, but I sure don't need any extra bits.   

 

 

So far you are the only one I've heard of.

 

Nobody goes there any more, it's too crowded.

 

Don't make assumptions based on very limited input.

 

 

An assumption is an inferral of data. I'm inferring based on findings. It's from a select amount, but still, only a very small percentage of said amount who answered bought extra dice in lieu of a second core set.

 

Cool.   I can almost understand what you're inferring.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to ask one thing.

 

Honest answers please:

 

Who here have actually purchased the x-wing Dice set rather than just a second core to get extra bits?

I purchased the dice set x2 as a core set was given to me without the dice due to the person that gifted it to me wanted to have 6x red and green dice.

 

I now own 9 dice of ea colour due to placing in the last regionals.

 

Also my brother inlaw, and his 2 friends purchased a dice set after the Wave 1 core set

Edited by iPanterra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You go and tell that big ol' mean TO who "challenges" you (you know because being expected to play by the rules is somehow "challenging")...

Playing by the rules certainly seems to be a challenge for some people...

FWIW, I only have one OT Core Set, and a dice pack. There have been a couple times when a few more APs would have been handy for a mini-swarm, but none of the other components would have been useful to me. All of my templates have been replaced with acrylic, I don't need more tokens or (old) damage decks, and I've never wanted to fly a 4X list.

For households with multiple players going to tournaments, I think that eBay is probably the way to go. Kinda sucks that you have to go to the secondary market, but in the grand scheme of things, I suspect that the players who buy two new cores vastly outnumber the tournament players who buy zero new cores.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I realize there are already several posts concerning the new damage deck, but I thought I could approach the argument from another direction. Can you play X-wing without a Core Set? Let's look at the required components:

 

Rule Book - available for free as a updated pdf download

Ships - available through any number of expansion packs

Tokens (focus, shield, target lock) - each expansion comes with enough tokens to fly each ship

Asteroids - alternative tourney-legal debris fields available in 2 large ship expansions and 2 epic ship expansions'

Range Rulers - cardboard rulers only available in core sets BUT 3rd party acrylic rulers ARE tourney legal

Dice - available for purchase separately

 

Damage Deck - only available in 2 core sets

 

My argument is this.

 

I do not want to purchase a new core set. I do not want new ships I won't fly. I do not want more dice, or asteroids, or range rulers. I DO want to continue playing a game that I love. Since so much of this game is available outside the core set, please make 1 of the following possible:

 

1. Reverse the ruling, and allow players to pick either deck to play (and treat it like strategically picking asteroids)

2. Sell the new Damage deck separately

3. Offer a downloadble PDF (like the rulebook) and allow us to "Print and Play" a new damage deck

 

This is not about being "cheap." It's about honoring the statement that the "core game has not changed and is still playable and valid amid the growing community." But mostly, it's about common sense.

 

UPDATE:

 

To be clear, I am alright with cards being packaged with ships because 1. we are told ahead of time what comes with each set and thus can make informed decisions AND 2. cards are NOT required to play the base game. FFG's business model on this is fair and rather straight forward (like say, blindly buying Magic card boosters.)

 

But, having a Damage Deck is NOT an option. It is required and thus since there was a change, there should be considerations for those who owned the original game - and may not wish to buy the new one.

Did not read the whole thread so if this was mentioned, forgive me.

Separately bought, just to avoid buying a core set, doesn't make sense. Dice are $8. An acrylic set of templates can run from $10-20 maybe more. Buying 2 large ships for the 6 different debris clouds is $70 or $30/$40 as you technically only need to bring 3 so you don't need to buy both ships they come in OR buy 1 huge ship at a cost of $60(? for the transport) to use as a single obstacle instead of 3 clouds or asteroids.

I did notice you completely failed to mention the pilot and maybe some upgrade cards you get in the core set and not found in expansions.

You are paying more money to avoid buying a core than the core costs. They make a core set for a reason. It's to give you all the tools to begin playing the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well buying a core set was a given, however when you make a new core set you essentially invalidate the old core sets.

 

I already got mine so whatever FFG does doesn't matter to me but many people I know from my FGLS who bought multiples of the classic core sets are now debating if they want to stay in the game or not. That's bad for business, and the game.

 

It's too late now to debate on the merits or demerits of the Episode 7 core set, the changing of the damage deck, or how Disney snubbed the LGSs in favor of large retailers. It's been done, but now the only thing is to ask if we got any new players, did we loses any players, how do we keep the players we still have while also making new players feel welcomed and not overwhelmed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah not fan of the target release, either.I do like that for worlds they are giving out damage decks. I do think we should wait and see on OT core reprints to see how they are with the new damage deck.

From what I have been hearing there will be no change to the classic core sets. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For Darius question, when we first started playing my brother bought a extra set so that we could both have full amount of dice even though I had purchased 2 cores. At least 4 people in my local group have bought 1 or more dice sets. Silly thing is, I now have 17 pairs of dice (gave one pair to a guy that had all his stuff stolen) from 2 past years of regionals, 2 old cores, 1 dice set, and 1 new core. Talk about a pool to roll from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You still don't know what that word means, eh? Or you do, and you're just trolling at this point. Please cut it out.

 

 

Well, since I've linked the dictionary definition several times, I think you're being obtuse.

 

Here, let me help you again with a dictionary definition for a word that you don't know.

 

Obtuse

 

not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not sensitive or observant; dull.

 

And as for your ordering of me to do something, no.  I'll do what I want, when I want, it's called freedom.

 

I'll help you again.

 

exemption from external control, interference, regulation, etc.

 

Except, I don't have freedom from FFG's draconian pricing model, if I want to play in a competitive environment :(

 

Maybe, local tournament organizers could relax the "no proxy" rule to encourage new players to play, without having to buy 2 Starvipers for autothrusters, and such.  Then, when that grass roots movement catches on, it bubbles up to regionals, and then to nationals, and then to worlds!  If everyone showed up with proxies, then they couldn't all be disqualified.  

 

Only through the power of the people, and our wallets, can we affect the change we want.

 

Of course, we could all just kowtow to the bullying of Vorpal Sword, because, you know, he has 5,000 posts on a forum, so he's better than all of us.  Or we could exercise the true power of free market capitalism and show FFG that we, as customers, actually mean something.

 

Either way, Vorpal Sword, you can **** off. I will continue to use words that mean what they mean, whether you like it or not.

 

 

Try going to a MTG game with proxies.  You are basically saying you want to be free to play their game without paying them what they have determined they need to make in order to be a profitable company.  No sir. 

 

Standalone damage decks may be a thing, but I imagine they will just include them in the new and old cores and be done with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yeah not fan of the target release, either.I do like that for worlds they are giving out damage decks. I do think we should wait and see on OT core reprints to see how they are with the new damage deck.

From what I have been hearing there will be no change to the classic core sets. :(

 

 

That just doesn't make sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I just say as an update:

 

1. They are now selling BASES seperately

2. They are giving out new damage decks at Worlds

 

How hard would it be to sell updated damage decks on their own for say $5-8 seeing that they are;

 

1. probably printed by a separate company than the models are made and then slipped into the completed box (so it wouldn't be hard to order a 1000 separate)

2. cost FFG probably pennies per pack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well buying a core set was a given, however when you make a new core set you essentially invalidate the old core sets.

 

All the ships and upgrades from the old core set are still legal and usable, with pilots available only in this set.  The movement templates are legal and usable, even though they lack the S-Loop and T-Roll icons that the new ones have.  The dice are legal and usable.  The tokens are legal and usable.  The damage deck is still legal and usable for another three months.  The rules have been updated and can be easily obtained online.

 

So tell me again how the old core set is "invalidated"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How hard would it be to sell updated damage decks on their own for say $5-8 seeing that they are;

 

1. probably printed by a separate company than the models are made and then slipped into the completed box (so it wouldn't be hard to order a 1000 separate)

2. cost FFG probably pennies per pack

 

You don't know:

 

1. the exact terms of FFG's licensing deal with Disney and whether it allows them to print card components separate from the ship components for the miniatures game.

2. what it would cost FFG to print and distribute a non-standard size pack of cards for which they'd have to design and create brand new packaging.

 

You can't really toss around terms like "probably" and "wouldn't be hard" without knowing information FFG has not made public.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How hard would it be to sell updated damage decks on their own for say $5-8 seeing that they are;

We can't know. But they may put 5 new damage decks in the Store Champion kit. That would take care of the few people who play those and don't have a new core set.

As far a licensing issue... I just can't see how that could be a problem, they produce the only Star Wars card game now. It's not like IA which can't be a boardgame...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

How hard would it be to sell updated damage decks on their own for say $5-8 seeing that they are;

We can't know. But they may put 5 new damage decks in the Store Champion kit. That would take care of the few people who play those and don't have a new core set.

As far a licensing issue... I just can't see how that could be a problem, they produce the only Star Wars card game now. It's not like IA which can't be a boardgame...

 

 

Like I said previously, they may have the rights to print card packs solely in support of the card game.  They may have the rights only to print individual cards of a certain size.  We just don't -- and likely won't ever -- know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a reminder: For people who don't do tourneys: This does not effect you a single iota.

For people who like to have all the current up to date everything: You should already have at least one new core set to achieve your objective.

 

If it's in the tourney kit, then job done. Nothing else to even talk about, everyones happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If 8~10 dollars is what you are looking to pay there seems to be a number of ebay listings just waiting for you to bid at the time of this post.

Probably will be even more after worlds. I guarantee anyone running a TLT list, regardless of how many of them there are in the list, is using the new damage deck. There is no "discard your turret" crit in it.

Edited by Ayleron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I just say as an update:

 

1. They are now selling BASES seperately

2. They are giving out new damage decks at Worlds

 

How hard would it be to sell updated damage decks on their own for say $5-8 seeing that they are;

 

1. probably printed by a separate company than the models are made and then slipped into the completed box (so it wouldn't be hard to order a 1000 separate)

2. cost FFG probably pennies per pack

You can make any conclusion seem reasonable if you choose the right assumptions. Thinking critically, though:

(1) Their printer is probably overseas, which means transportation remains a cost and an issue.

(2) They would have to develop and manufacture separate packaging for the damage deck, since that doesn't already exist.

(3) They would have to either (a) make it a web exclusive, which cuts their volume substantially, or (b) ask retailers to carry a new SKU, which costs shelf space and means the consumer-facing price is inflated by the distributor's margin and the store's margin.

(4) High-quality, four-color, offset printing on glossy cardstock isn't like running things off on an inkjet at home. I can't say for sure that "pennies on the dollar" is wrong, but I wouldn't be willing to count on it without a lot more research.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So after scanning through the posts I have a few thoughts.

I can see the logic of the OP argument, however, I find I disingenuous to say that you are willing and capable of buying acrylic templates for $20-30 and pay $5 per tournament you play in but you don't want to spend $40 (less if you were smart and used Targets SW coupons or order from a discount retailer). If the argument is based on the principle then this is a hobby and you are the consumer. You don't call the shots and there are always going to be some things that a manufacturer will do with your hobby which you don't like (can't please everyone all the time).

The thing which really bugs me is- don't play the victim. OP you aren't helpless. I'd have a lot more sympathy for you if you had posted that you had written/emailed FFG and explained that you are a loyal player but just couldn't muster the money for the new core set and asked them for a new damage deck. Or you had asked around at your local groups to see if someone who had purchased 2 or more of the new core sets would give or trade you. Do everything you can do to address the situation and then put forward your complaint. I'd be willing to bet had you simply posted that you had done those things and they had not succeeded and you really wanted to still play in tournaments someone within this thread would have offered you one for free (I've seen it happen). Your worst case scenario is that you have one less ship that you wanted because you spent the money buying a new damage deck from a 3rd party. Be more cunning and less whiny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Can I just say as an update:

 

1. They are now selling BASES seperately

2. They are giving out new damage decks at Worlds

 

How hard would it be to sell updated damage decks on their own for say $5-8 seeing that they are;

 

1. probably printed by a separate company than the models are made and then slipped into the completed box (so it wouldn't be hard to order a 1000 separate)

2. cost FFG probably pennies per pack

You can make any conclusion seem reasonable if you choose the right assumptions. Thinking critically, though:

(1) Their printer is probably overseas, which means transportation remains a cost and an issue.

(2) They would have to develop and manufacture separate packaging for the damage deck, since that doesn't already exist.

(3) They would have to either (a) make it a web exclusive, which cuts their volume substantially, or (b) ask retailers to carry a new SKU, which costs shelf space and means the consumer-facing price is inflated by the distributor's margin and the store's margin.

(4) High-quality, four-color, offset printing on glossy cardstock isn't like running things off on an inkjet at home. I can't say for sure that "pennies on the dollar" is wrong, but I wouldn't be willing to count on it without a lot more research.

 

 

We are also assuming such a pack wouldn't be POD. Which adds a whole other wrinkle to it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll gladly sell you a new damage deck for $10. Heck, I'll throw in some extra tokens/dice/ruler asteroids if you don't mind cheap and time insensitive shipping.

I do want a Tie/FO swarm and a second t-70 would be just icing on the cake.

Edited by Rakky Wistol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...