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Kasuvari

Playing without a Core Set (or, my problems with the new damage deck)

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I realize there are already several posts concerning the new damage deck, but I thought I could approach the argument from another direction. Can you play X-wing without a Core Set? Let's look at the required components:

 

Rule Book - available for free as a updated pdf download

Ships - available through any number of expansion packs

Tokens (focus, shield, target lock) - each expansion comes with enough tokens to fly each ship

Asteroids - alternative tourney-legal debris fields available in 2 large ship expansions and 2 epic ship expansions'

Range Rulers - cardboard rulers only available in core sets BUT 3rd party acrylic rulers ARE tourney legal

Dice - available for purchase separately

 

Damage Deck - only available in 2 core sets

 

My argument is this.

 

I do not want to purchase a new core set. I do not want new ships I won't fly. I do not want more dice, or asteroids, or range rulers. I DO want to continue playing a game that I love. Since so much of this game is available outside the core set, please make 1 of the following possible:

 

1. Reverse the ruling, and allow players to pick either deck to play (and treat it like strategically picking asteroids)

2. Sell the new Damage deck separately

3. Offer a downloadble PDF (like the rulebook) and allow us to "Print and Play" a new damage deck

 

This is not about being "cheap." It's about honoring the statement that the "core game has not changed and is still playable and valid amid the growing community." But mostly, it's about common sense.

 

UPDATE:

 

To be clear, I am alright with cards being packaged with ships because 1. we are told ahead of time what comes with each set and thus can make informed decisions AND 2. cards are NOT required to play the base game. FFG's business model on this is fair and rather straight forward (like say, blindly buying Magic card boosters.)

 

But, having a Damage Deck is NOT an option. It is required and thus since there was a change, there should be considerations for those who owned the original game - and may not wish to buy the new one.

Edited by Kasuvari

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Damage deck solo would probably sell for something pricey, like £10 here in the UK. 

 

An honest offer, if you're based in the UK: Would you like to buy a core set, remove the deck (and the asteroids), and I'll buy the remainder from you? If that's not feasible, I'm sure someone in your area would be interested in buying a second T-70, or enough Fo's for a mini swarm? 

Long and the short of it, I think it could've been handled better, but it's an easy enough problem to deal with, among fellow players and friends.

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One thing that I noticed when reading through the article yesterday, they mentioned each specific card that was changed.  Therefore it should be possible to play the game with the old deck, and when you draw a Minor Hull Breach, you'll have to treat it as a Major Hull Breach.  Same thing for the other cards that have been changed, we know what card "replaced" them.  So while the wording is incorrect, it'd still be possible to play with the new deck crits without having the new deck.

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I dislike the requirement to purchase cards and ships in combined packs when cards could easily be sold separately, and at a margin which would be profitable for FFG.

I don't buy into that program - I have zero S&V ships for this reason.

Short of an act of law, this trend in gaming is going to continue: pay to play (at tournaments.) 

 

I don't play at tournaments.  When I need to use a card that I do not own, I either A) borrow it from a friend, or B) use a post-it note with the name, then refer to it in the multitude of list builders (which show the rules for any card in game).  I feel that any attempt to change this "bundling for greater profit" requires a serious campaign.  I'm all for it, but unless we find a way to publically shame the companies that do it  to us until media and/or government take notice, we obey or avoid. 

 

Too many gamers are sheep in this regard:  "That's outrageous marketing/pricing, but okay and I'll just complain"

Why do we pay $6 for a coke at a sporting event?  Because we will buy them at that price.  Water is all you need and you can bring it with you...

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I dislike the requirement to purchase cards and ships in combined packs when cards could easily be sold separately, and at a margin which would be profitable for FFG.

I don't buy into that program - I have zero S&V ships for this reason.

Short of an act of law, this trend in gaming is going to continue: pay to play (at tournaments.) 

 

I don't play at tournaments.  When I need to use a card that I do not own, I either A) borrow it from a friend, or B) use a post-it note with the name, then refer to it in the multitude of list builders (which show the rules for any card in game).  I feel that any attempt to change this "bundling for greater profit" requires a serious campaign.  I'm all for it, but unless we find a way to publically shame the companies that do it  to us until media and/or government take notice, we obey or avoid. 

 

Too many gamers are sheep in this regard:  "That's outrageous marketing/pricing, but okay and I'll just complain"

Why do we pay $6 for a coke at a sporting event?  Because we will buy them at that price.  Water is all you need and you can bring it with you...

 

I'm actually OK with cards being packaged with certain ships. Mainly because, those cards (as vital as they may be too a good list) are NOT required to play the game. If I don't want to buy the Raider for the X1, I can fly another ship. I am smart enough to make informed purchases, but I hate to be forced into purchases just to play.

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Buy or buy not, there is no cry!

How many times does this path have to be worn. We know the model, the groundswell can choose not to buy play the original deck and the rest of us can just get on playing with the new toys!

I honestly find it difficult to believe that a tournament player would not want this set for ships alone.

Sorry... rant over.

Edited by simple31

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I'm seeing a groundswell of support on the forums for FFG to discontinue the draconian practices of packaging cards with ships.  Perhaps a grass roots movement to vote with our wallets will change their minds?

You still don't know what that word means, eh? Or you do, and you're just trolling at this point. Please cut it out.

...Since so much of this game is available outside the core set, please make 1 of the following possible:

 

1. Reverse the ruling, and allow players to pick either deck to play (and treat it like strategically picking asteroids)

2. Sell the new Damage deck separately

3. Offer a downloadble PDF (like the rulebook) and allow us to "Print and Play" a new damage deck

 

This is not about being "cheap." It's about honoring the statement that the "core game has not changed and is still playable and valid amid the growing community." But mostly, it's about common sense.

Option (1) is very unlikely to happen. The only reason to publish a new damage deck at all is to tighten up aspects of the game's design; if FFG thinks it's not just better but so much better that they're willing to open themselves up to this kind of criticism, they're not likely to reverse course.

I think (2) is moderately unlikely to happen, unless it's print-on-demand. But it's at least a feasible approach, and I hope they've considered it.

I sort of wish (3) would happen, with some rules about printing and sleeving them. I don't know if it's possible under their licensing agreement, though, and if it is possible I don't know whether they'd consider the goodwill they gained to be worth the potential loss in sales of the new core set.

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You still don't know what that word means, eh? Or you do, and you're just trolling at this point. Please cut it out.

 

 

Well, since I've linked the dictionary definition several times, I think you're being obtuse.

 

Here, let me help you again with a dictionary definition for a word that you don't know.

 

Obtuse

 

not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not sensitive or observant; dull.

 

And as for your ordering of me to do something, no.  I'll do what I want, when I want, it's called freedom.

 

I'll help you again.

 

exemption from external control, interference, regulation, etc.

 

Except, I don't have freedom from FFG's draconian pricing model, if I want to play in a competitive environment :(

 

Maybe, local tournament organizers could relax the "no proxy" rule to encourage new players to play, without having to buy 2 Starvipers for autothrusters, and such.  Then, when that grass roots movement catches on, it bubbles up to regionals, and then to nationals, and then to worlds!  If everyone showed up with proxies, then they couldn't all be disqualified.  

 

Only through the power of the people, and our wallets, can we affect the change we want.

 

Of course, we could all just kowtow to the bullying of Vorpal Sword, because, you know, he has 5,000 posts on a forum, so he's better than all of us.  Or we could exercise the true power of free market capitalism and show FFG that we, as customers, actually mean something.

 

Either way, Vorpal Sword, you can **** off. I will continue to use words that mean what they mean, whether you like it or not.

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While I might prefer that they offer the new damage deck some other way... The only people who are really affected by this are tournament players.

So unless you spend a lot of time playing in competitive tournaments you don't need the new damage deck and have no reason to complain about it being put into the game.

If you do play in them quite often, then there is nothing wrong with expecting you to buy a new core set, competitive tournament play will always have a higher cost associated with it.

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You still don't know what that word means, eh? Or you do, and you're just trolling at this point. Please cut it out.

 

 

Well, since I've linked the dictionary definition several times, I think you're being obtuse.

 

Here, let me help you again with a dictionary definition for a word that you don't know.

 

Obtuse

 

not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not sensitive or observant; dull.

 

And as for your ordering of me to do something, no.  I'll do what I want, when I want, it's called freedom.

 

I'll help you again.

 

exemption from external control, interference, regulation, etc.

 

Except, I don't have freedom from FFG's draconian pricing model, if I want to play in a competitive environment :(

 

Maybe, local tournament organizers could relax the "no proxy" rule to encourage new players to play, without having to buy 2 Starvipers for autothrusters, and such.  Then, when that grass roots movement catches on, it bubbles up to regionals, and then to nationals, and then to worlds!  If everyone showed up with proxies, then they couldn't all be disqualified.  

 

Only through the power of the people, and our wallets, can we affect the change we want.

 

Of course, we could all just kowtow to the bullying of Vorpal Sword, because, you know, he has 5,000 posts on a forum, so he's better than all of us.  Or we could exercise the true power of free market capitalism and show FFG that we, as customers, actually mean something.

 

Either way, Vorpal Sword, you can **** off. I will continue to use words that mean what they mean, whether you like it or not.

 

The problem with your argument is the word want, you don't need to play in competitive events, you have the freedom to do what you like here, play the game, don't play the game, to enjoy the hobby or to not to enjoy the hobby, that is the question, whether 'tis nobler in the.....nevemind off topic. If it was truly draconian you would be forced to play the game competitvaly whether to get any enjoyment out of it or not, and that is why it is a poor choice of words

Edited by Garian Dagarkin

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FFG's draconian pricing model

 

Whoops! Here it is again.

 

Let me help you, "FFG's [ingenius] pricing model..."

 

Or, "FFG's [we make something that everyone wants, so what's the best way to make a great profit to stay in business and keep making awesome products?] pricing model..."

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FFG's draconian pricing model

 

Whoops! Here it is again.

 

Let me help you, "FFG's [ingenius] pricing model..."

 

Or, "FFG's [we make something that everyone wants, so what's the best way to make a great profit to stay in business and keep making awesome products?] pricing model..."

 

 

Well, let's be honest, selling card packs and such won't put FFG out of business.  How about, we the customers make the change?  If FFG listens to their profits, which they should, then let's hit them where it counts, and get a more customer friendly packaging model?

 

Of course, that would require effort and unity on our part, so I guess that's expecting too much :(

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Given only a vocal minority have a problem with this... yeah.

 

My mindset: sooo, new core sets, new ships, new upgrades, a few asteroids and new damage packs... well if i I do want to tourney those packs will be nice, and well i like the other stuff. <goes and buys two>.

 

It was never OMG I am forced to spend under 50 bucks to keep my list relevant, oh woe is me.

 

If you are playing casual it doesn't even matter.

If you are playing tourny, it's STILL CHEAPER THAN ALMOST EVERY OTHER TOURNEY GAME OUT THERE JESUS STOP WHINING.

 

Ahem, sorry. I paid $60 can on a space marine codex for 6th for it to be out of date within like a year and a half. Just saying. That's just a book with pretty pics and rules. That's not even the new wonderful overkill units like centurions, over $100 CAN before paint and glue and the work that goes into them. Then the rulebooks themselves are like $50 can, need those...

 

I just spent less than 100 canuckian groats on 4 new TIE's 2 new x-wings, and the rest of the above. including the always wanted for larger/party games more range sticks and dice.

 

I truly fail to see why the concern blatant whining. If this makes me an FFG fanboy I am kinda fine with that, myself. I prefer the term perspective.

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Of course, that would require effort and unity on our part, so I guess that's expecting too much :(

The problem isn't a lack of unity, it's that you'd need some actual oppression to generate a groundswell of support for your position, and there isn't any.

As I've said elsewhere already this morning, the constituency of players standing behind you (or rather, milling around you muttering "rhubarb, rhubarb") just isn't very large. I doubt there are many people who want to participate in competitive events but also weren't planning to buy a Force Awakens core set for the ships and upgrades.

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