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El_Ganso

Am I the only one who...

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... Would love it if the story was rebooted to the pre-coup timeline?

It seems to me that all the iconic characters come from that pre-coup/Clan War era. Bad Asses like Hida Kisada, Matsu Tsuko, Ginawa. Honorable warriors like Akodo Toturi, Kakita Toshimoko and the venerable Toku. Great villains like Bayushi Shoju and Aramoro. And the oddballs like Mitsu.

All those characters are even reprinted in many different formats just so that players today can experience their awesomeness. Even the original mythology and celestial order was so much better than this eyeroll inducing situation where "yea we have replaced the two most important deities in the heavens twice now". Having Togashi's blood ment something, and having an Emperor on the throne that was literally a descendant from gods was awe inducing.

I know that the story is as much a work of the community as it is a work of the story team. And I understand because I participated in many of those story line events. But the fact is, as it stands it's no better then many of the Star Wars EU ex-canon and, much as the same, FFG should take this opportunity to cut a lot of the fat and even rewrite some of it if they want new players to experience it and quickly pick it up.

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I know a lot of long-time players would be happy or at least OK with a reboot, but the announcement specifically mentions the Colonies so it looks like they'll be carrying on the story from roughly where it is now.

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... Would love it if the story was rebooted to the pre-coup timeline?

It seems to me that all the iconic characters come from that pre-coup/Clan War era. Bad Asses like Hida Kisada, Matsu Tsuko, Ginawa. Honorable warriors like Akodo Toturi, Kakita Toshimoko and the venerable Toku. Great villains like Bayushi Shoju and Aramoro. And the oddballs like Mitsu.

All those characters are even reprinted in many different formats just so that players today can experience their awesomeness. Even the original mythology and celestial order was so much better than this eyeroll inducing situation where "yea we have replaced the two most important deities in the heavens twice now". Having Togashi's blood ment something, and having an Emperor on the throne that was literally a descendant from gods was awe inducing.

I know that the story is as much a work of the community as it is a work of the story team. And I understand because I participated in many of those story line events. But the fact is, as it stands it's no better then many of the Star Wars EU ex-canon and, much as the same, FFG should take this opportunity to cut a lot of the fat and even rewrite some of it if they want new players to experience it and quickly pick it up.

I would love if they went back to just after the foundation of the clans by the Kami. There is a lot of history in the game that has "happened" but has not been fleshed out or explored.

 

That said. The setting FFG have to play with is so rich that they could start from anywhere really and make a very interesting storyline.

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I know a lot of long-time players would be happy or at least OK with a reboot, but the announcement specifically mentions the Colonies so it looks like they'll be carrying on the story from roughly where it is now.

I'm actually in the opposite field. I do not know of a long term player who would be happy with a reboot of the storyline. Doing so would be putting the torch to 20 years of community involvement and action, and honestly?

 

Hida Kisada was boring. Toturi was boring. Yokuni was EXTREMELY boring. And who was that Kamoko woman again?

 

The most interesting characters from that arc were Doji Hoturi, Bayushi Kachiko, Hida Yakamo, and Mirumoto Hitomi. Going back to the Clan War and rebooting the story will literally make people walk from the game because it is insulting all the years people have poured into this game, in an attempt to capture something that was never there.

 

It works for a tabletop RPG game, sure, but for the massive game? The way out is forwards, not back.

Edited by sndwurks

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I'm largely indifferent to the story these days, but I admit it would be neat to see some of the heavyweights from arcs past hit the table.

 

Like, a cycle of packs covers the Clan War, a cycle for Hidden Emperor, etc. Best ofs. That's *years* of product right there.

 

Although a lot of those cycles would be pretty forgettable, so... *shrug*

 

I'd just as soon FFG does something new.

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I'd personally be sad to lose the Colonies, Rokugan expanding beyond it's borders was an interesting change to the setting (and one I think AEG kind of wasted) and I'd like to see it explored more. Also a reboot would either end up retreading everything and boring half us old-timers to death, or changing established history and annoying the other half.

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The challenge of the colonies for FFG is that, in the midst of trying to market a game of mystical samurai and struggles for clan dominance and etc -- something that's going to be new to a big chunk of the hoped-for player base -- supporting the colonies would basically mean saying, "Oh, and here's a bunch of stuff going on over there. Yes, I know we just got you interested in Rokugan, but, seriously, look over there."

 

Not impossible, but a challenge, for sure.

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That's true, it'd probably be best to largely ignore the colonies in the core set and at least the first cycle. Maybe stick a mention of them in some market or port holding so they don't seem tacked on if they're introduced later.

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I would really dislike the reboot. 

1. It would look like FFG deciding that everything AEG has done is trash, and just dump it in order to write their own story without respect to 20 years of the game

2. New game should attract new customers. Fresh start in their own timeline allows to both appease old timers with winks and nudges and respecting the history, and allow new people to jump straight in without having to care about legacy backlog. Let's be honest; some of people who will start playing this game in 2017 *weren't born when Day of Thunder Happened*. For quite large target audience, all this stuff is ancient history, and pandering to too much of it will simply alienate them.

3. I personally find most of Day of Thunder personalities terribly boring. 

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Clan War or Colonies, whichever be done ultimately by FFG is going to need to have its setting fleshed out more.

 

Even if it be about Colonies, limit the number of Colony-themed cards to a very low minimum in the core set. Yet don't get rid of them, so they won't exactly come out of left-field. Like 1-3 unaligned cards and 0-1 clan cards that have a colony theme to them. Except Mantis which can actually get away with the colony theme.

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Not the Clan Wars again, please and thank you.  We just had the Seige set from AEG before all this shook out, and some familiar faces in the cards in the P'an Ku storyline; that's more than enough -- and I say this as a huge fan of Hoturi.

 

L5R needs to move forward, not backward.  At that, I'd be good with a Rokugan + Colonies clean sweep setup.  Retain the basic framework (essentially, that the colonies exist), rewrite everything else.  New personalities, new conflicts, shake off all the mistakes and missteps and rebuild from base principles.

 

It is all castles-in-the-sky right now, of course, but what isn't at the moment?

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Since the story is/was such an integral part of L5R's success, it's not unreasonable to assume it also shared a part in its failures. A lot of people put a lot of hard work into the last few arcs, but plainly put the game was failing. Now a large part of that is due to a number of things (mechanics,delays,etc) but a not insignificant amount of people disliked the current story(even with a talented group you can only generate so much interesting and original content with two decades of past material and being hamstrung by tourney picks). The same goes for nostalgia tripping. What's the point of a fresh start if it's not actually fresh? Personally, I think they should go full wipe. Start from scratch with zero baggage from AEG's timeline, and introduce and develop their own iconic moments and characters.

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I would prefer the game overall going forward and not repeating the story again. But, I would like to have cards for the old arcs, so I wouldn't mind if FFG would make card cycles so I can have all the peeps and what have you for their new game.

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I'm actually in the opposite field. I do not know of a long term player who would be happy with a reboot of the storyline. Doing so would be putting the torch to 20 years of community involvement and action

I feel the same. I don't know if I'd be considered a long term player compared to others but I've been playing L5R for 6 years and seen 3 arcs. I'm not keen on the idea of losing all the story I've been here for and considering how long ago Clan Wars was, I doubt I'm the only one.

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I don´t think a rebot would be a good Idea. The reason for this was allready mentioned and is very simple. All players who hav e fhought for the story prizes and for their Clans developement to this day would be pissed cause it would mean their hard work had not meaning at all. If you reboot the setting in suich a way it will result in a very bad redcon which is nothing I desire here. In contrast I see the Onyx emprie as a better way for a reboot. Let Kanpeki crush them let him rule and than the clans slowly take back the empire after it and when they finaly brought order back to the empire we will have automaticly internal conflicts like who will get how much  territory back and which position. Who will be the next emperor and will shibatsu and Seiken still are alive who will support whom. #

 

A rollback in time is nothing I would support further more don´t murn over the past but lets us create a better tomorrow cause this we can influence

 

Also I don´t think we should ignore the colonies. Instead let us incooperate them as part of rokugan because that is what they are. Here it is more a slight of the cartographers that they did not allready extended the boarders of Rokugan to the boarders of the colonies and declare them part of the whole empire. If they would do this we also could have clan internal fights there over control etc. Another way to incooperate them is that it will be one of the major Spider bases when they begin their attack cause the Spider are allready very dominant in this region. Also don´t forget that there are still many magical secrects hidden in the Colonies so you you lose nothing of either the magical or the Samurai part of the theme if you incoopertae them,

 

Therefore I think incooperation is better than ignorance cause the Colonies have so many possibilities to make Rokugan even more awesome.

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I don't think a storyline reset would be a good idea.

 

However, opening the game with a timeline-agnostic base set that reflects the most notable personalities of the setting, regardless of when or where they lived, would be a pretty reasonable move. That would give the new game a much more solid base to go from and tell its own stories, and allow FFG to draw on the full richness of the setting they bought, rather than being stuck with most of the most notable characters of that setting being unusable in the game.  

Edited by Himoto

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Outside the Clan Wars and Gold Edition every storyline of L5R has felt like a giant mess to me.  I had no investment in the current plot, but I can understand the sentiment of wanting to start back where it left off.  I will say though that retcons aren't necessarily a bad thing.  There have certainly been some events in Rokugan's history that would be best forgotten or changed.

 

As for a reboot, it really just depends on how they went about it.  If they wanted to recapture the magic of the Clan Wars then I think that'd be a mistake, as much as I love that time period.  I'll echo what others have said about the Colonies.  To me it detracts from the game more than adds to it, the game should be centered on Rokugan.

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I would prefer the Doomtown approach. Everything in the previous edition still happened, there was simply a time jump that took place, which gave time for the new factions to be introduced and for the town to start rebuilding.

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I don't really want a rehash of any arc.  That seems to be the crutch that AEG used several times when their sales were lagging.

 

KYD was a retelling using alternate versions of old characters.

Dawn was a retelling of the mythology of the start of the world using familiar characters we'd all read about (Kami and Thunders).

Seige was a revist to the Day of Thunder.

 

There have been tons of other throwbacks to the "golden days".  I don't mind a time jump at all, I just don't want a retreading.  Nothing they do with that storyline will be as good as our memories of the Clan Wars and Day of Thunder.  Send us to a third Day of Thunder far in the future.  Send us to a distant past with unknown characters and let us try to shape the past.  Start up where the Onyx story left off.  

 

I don't really care, just don't start retconning everything just to pander to nostalgia.

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I would prefer the Doomtown approach. Everything in the previous edition still happened, there was simply a time jump that took place, which gave time for the new factions to be introduced and for the town to start rebuilding.

 

Poor use of the 20 years worth of storyline they just paid for. 

 

Because, ultimately, that's the heart of the Rokugan setting. Not the RPG splat book, not the general idea of a world split into clans. The twenty years of story that fleshed out those clans and gave them their iconic characters and moments. 

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Do not want a reboot. Do not need a retelling of the same story, and I see no reason to shift to an almost-the-same-but-not-quite version of Rokugan just to get away from history. If they don't want to continue with Onyx, they can just time jump far enough ahead to put the setting at whatever base point they want.

 

Although that is an interesting idea by Himoto to just make the game itself timeline-neutral. After all, A Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings or Star Wars have characters and events from different points in time (sometimes multiple versions of the same character from basically the same point in time) all existing at once in the LCG. More characters would be added to the mix as the story moved forward, like in Star Wars or A Game of Thrones you get more material added in as additional books/shows/movies come out (I'm kidding, I'm kidding - we all know GRRM is never going to get around to finishing another novel).

 

With that said, there are real differences. Luke Skywalker is a/the main character of three movies, everyone knows who he is, and it's always a selling point to get a new version of him. Mirumoto Hitomi, while maybe a big deal for a long-term L5R fellow like me, will probably mean nothing to most of the people who buy this product at GenCon 2017. Without more story being written about her, I don't see how you generate the same fan interest in seeing repeated versions of her. More broadly, something like Star Wars: the Card Game is very much about just playing in the sandbox of the setting, and that fits in with the timeline neutrality. L5R has some aspect of that, but the whole concept of the Interactive Storyline Game means that there is a significance to new material beyond "oh they made another cartoon to draw characters from."

 

While I'm not saying it would be the correct idea, I think it is an interesting one. If nothing else, I would certainly shell out for something like a Clan War deluxe expansion (or other eras), with that product sitting alongside a set of monthly packs that were not 'timeline neutral.'

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