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17th Knight

The Big Question - Which Clans Make The Cut?

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I wouldn't be surprised if they kept all 9 factions, but distilled them (at least in the beginning) to their most basic elements.

 

Crab - Berserkers/Monster fighters

Crane - Honorable politicians

Dragon - Monks

Lion - "generic" samurai

Mantis - Pirates

Phoenix - Spellcasters

Scorpion - Evil Politicians (though more likely they would just make the Crane the "Politicians" faction and the Scorpion would be the "Ninjas" faction)

Spider - Evil things

Unicorn - Mongols

 

I think it's unlikely if they keep all the factions you're going to see the diversity of themes you would have seen under the old model, for better or worse. Doing this also makes them easier to 'sell' to people unfamiliar with the setting, ie new players or players of their other brands who aren't familiar with L5R, which FFG will most likely be devoting most of their attention to. I think if there is a thing like Dueling, it will not be a Crane thing, but a thing everybody can do, and maybe there is a Crane guy or two that can just do it really well.

Edited by Tetsuro

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As someone that started with L5R 1e, and first edition of ccg, 20 years ago,  I'm looking forward to a hard reset of the L5R "story", reinventing Clans and bringing back ideas for original content.

 

The game itself is a convoluted setting, with a lot of retcons, and storyline events that don't make sense. It's really hard for someone new to get in, with a lot to read, and even if you do. So hoping new edition would just simplify things a bit restarting the timeline with new concepts, masterfully done by a company that proved several times it can handle something like that.

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I wouldn't be surprised if they kept all 9 factions, but distilled them (at least in the beginning) to their most basic elements.

 

Crab - Berserkers/Monster fighters

Crane - Honorable politicians

Dragon - Monks

Lion - "generic" samurai

Mantis - Pirates

Phoenix - Spellcasters

Scorpion - Evil Politicians (though more likely they would just make the Crane the "Politicians" faction and the Scorpion would be the "Ninjas" faction)

Spider - Evil things

Unicorn - Mongols

 

I think it's unlikely if they keep all the factions you're going to see the diversity of themes you would have seen under the old model, for better or worse. Doing this also makes them easier to 'sell' to people unfamiliar with the setting, ie new players or players of their other brands who aren't familiar with L5R, which FFG will most likely be devoting most of their attention to. I think if there is a thing like Dueling, it will not be a Crane thing, but a thing everybody can do, and maybe there is a Crane guy or two that can just do it really well.

You used "evil" twice (Evil politicians are an 'evil thing.')

 

The original description of the Crane was they were everyone's "friend" (cause, really, who pisses off the guys who control the food supply?)

The Scorpion were the spies/assassins (i.e. everyone's frenemy).

The Mantis were originally mercenaries, not pirates--pirates came later.  The mercenary bit could, if you think about it, be used rather effectively to have them available as a few personalities that everyone else would like to "hire" in the first set and let them grow into a full faction in an expansion. 

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You used "evil" twice (Evil politicians are an 'evil thing.')

 

 

I don't think "evil politicians" is really where the Scorpion should be. More like believers in realpolitik, whereas Crane tend to be more idealistic.

 

If Crane represent the value of perfection (as has been argued in official products), and perfect is the enemy of good, that makes the Scorpion "good" politicians. ;)

Edited by BD Flory

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I think the focus of the Spider should be on their zealots, that they are insane driven to be successful. Sure, that means they can be seen as quite evil in their pragmatic way to win (after all, Shourido means the way of success), but it should not stay tied to the taint, since that would keep them as opposition to the empire, and I think they should become part of the empire.

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I wouldn't be surprised if they kept all 9 factions, but distilled them (at least in the beginning) to their most basic elements.

 

Crab - Berserkers/Monster fighters

Crane - Honorable politicians

Dragon - Monks

Lion - "generic" samurai

Mantis - Pirates

Phoenix - Spellcasters

Scorpion - Evil Politicians (though more likely they would just make the Crane the "Politicians" faction and the Scorpion would be the "Ninjas" faction)

Spider - Evil things

Unicorn - Mongols

 

I think it's unlikely if they keep all the factions you're going to see the diversity of themes you would have seen under the old model, for better or worse. Doing this also makes them easier to 'sell' to people unfamiliar with the setting, ie new players or players of their other brands who aren't familiar with L5R, which FFG will most likely be devoting most of their attention to. I think if there is a thing like Dueling, it will not be a Crane thing, but a thing everybody can do, and maybe there is a Crane guy or two that can just do it really well.

 

Impossible to distill clans into their basic elements unless you cut them down to specific families

 

Crab - Warriors of Heavy Weapons and Siege and Fortification Artists

Crane - Wealth and Aesthetics, Duels and Negotiation.

Dragon - Monks and Enigmas, Kihos and Enlightenment

Lion - Ancestors, Beastmasters, Tacticians

Mantis - Ships,  Amaterasu, Animal Spirits and the Thunder Dragon

Phoenix - Magic and Spells, The Celestial Dragons

Scorpion - Ninjas, Underhanded politics

Spider -  Servants of the Dark God

Unicorn - Horses, The Gods of Death

~~

ie

Kaui - Seige and Fortifications

Kitsune - Animal Spirits

Moto - Death Priests

Yasuki - Masters of Coin

 

They can also do families, or schools.

ie The School of Bitter Lies,

The Doji Courtier School

 

There is are a lot of avenues open to L5R.

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Trust me, I'm pretty familiar with the various aspects of each of the individual families of each Clan. ;)

 

However, for the sake of streamlining the game for an LCG, as well as making the basic setting easier to explain to people who aren't familiar with L5R, it's more feasible to 'streamline' the Clans if you intend to keep them all around. Don't forget the card pool for an LCG is vastly smaller than it was for L5R as a CCG, there is way less room for showing off Clan diversity than there was under the old model.

Edited by Tetsuro

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Trust me, I'm pretty familiar with the various aspects of each of the individual families of each Clan. ;)

 

However, for the sake of streamlining the game for an LCG, as well as making the basic setting easier to explain to people who aren't familiar with L5R, it's more feasible to 'streamline' the Clans if you intend to keep them all around. Don't forget the card pool for an LCG is vastly smaller than it was for L5R as a CCG, there is way less room for showing off Clan diversity than there was under the old model.

 

And that is the wrong way for me. IO don´t think streamlining only to make it easier is a way to go. What I think is a good Idea is making the Clans unique and different from each other so that if you play Unicorn you feel like playing them and the sytle is conciderably different from playing Lion.  I don´t think you should streamline games to much. Also the card pool for an LCG does not have to be smaller. In contraire it could even become bigger cause you can decide to print more expansion packs each year. 

Also I rather take the time and explain people a more compllicated game than just go and do the Age of Sigmar appraoch with 4 pages of rulings and no fun or tournement chance to play the game what so ever. 

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You know, they could make neutral army units central to all decks. For instance, an "Archer squad" or "Pikemen" or "Heavy Regulars" like followers of yore, but making up the bulk of your army.  Then they would be free to stylize a small amount of cards for each faction to utilize them differently. Each could have notable strategies using certain unit types or notable leaders to command them. Phoenix could have an emphasis on Shugenja units, Unicorn on horse units, etc. This way they could pack a lot of flavor and style into less diversity, which may solve the "too many factions" issue.

 

Just a thought.

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Well a bit of clean up would be good.

The destruction of the Horiuchi family was a good idea imo.

And I think the Toritaka add nothing for the crab. I think at least a demotion to vassal family of the Hiruma would be a good idea.

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Personally I want to actually play the clan. This is a game about nine clans, not forty or so families. The families should be different elements of the clan that support one another toward the overarching goal of the deck. 

 

I'm sick of the notion of "Daidoji decks" (or Crane Scout, same difference) and what have you - the Daidoji's job is to delay enemies while Crane politics win, not to go out and crush provinces. 

 

Legend of the Forty Families wasn't the game I signed up for, and it was one of the biggest interest-killer in the game for me.

 

-------------

 

Which isn't to say I agree with Tetsuro. I think he's oversimplifying the essence of the clans. Even if the Crane are distilled back down to politicians, they'd still have bushi to slow down their enemies. Just the bushi would be support for the politician (as they should be, that's what the Daidoji *are*), not a distinct decktype in their own right.

 

Likewise with pretty much any minor theme anywhere. The family themes should support the overall clan themes, rather than each be their own independent thing. 

Edited by Himoto

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Personally I want to actually play the clan. This is a game about nine clans, not forty or so families. The families should be different elements of the clan that support one another toward the overarching goal of the deck. 

 

I'm sick of the notion of "Daidoji decks" (or Crane Scout, same difference) and what have you - the Daidoji's job is to delay enemies while Crane politics win, not to go out and crush provinces. 

 

I imagine we can count on families being reflected with keywords, and different families being focused on with each cycle/box. Like different space marine chapters in conquest, or so I understand.

 

Making them work together will be up to us. :)

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So long as they're not designed from the ground up to be for completely different deck where you're better off pairing the Daidoji with the Hiruma than with other Cranes because hey Scouts. 

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I really look forward to/hope to have more reason to mix and match personalities.  Not every personality should go in every deck, but I should be able to find a reason for combinations of the four families to be in a deck at some point.  Mono decks are bleh.

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So long as they're not designed from the ground up to be for completely different deck where you're better off pairing the Daidoji with the Hiruma than with other Cranes because hey Scouts. 

 

I'm perfectly okay with, "Hey, scouts!" being a competitive deck type, and expect dual clan decks to be quite common. Based on FFG's other designs, pure clan decks will have their own synergies that are diminished by going cross clan. As a trivial example, in Game of Thrones, each house has basic cost reducing locations, and some have characters with similar. All of them specify they can only be used on members of that house, not an allied house. So the way you pay for allied decks that share keywords or combos or whatever is that your house synergies go down. I expect similar designs in L5R, in that respect.

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Cost reduction as a source of synergy is not nearly as powerful as "You can only play these actions with personalities with the right keyword". 

 

As I said, it was a fairly trivial example. There are certainly more significant ones. House restricted attachments, events, interactions, etc. You also sacrifice the ability to play a banner (card that begins in play attached to your house) that reduces the cost of loyal cards by playing the alliance banner that allows you to go out of house for cards. Speaking of which, you also can't play loyal cards from the allied house.

 

My assumption is that FFG will try to balance pure clan decks with alliance decks such that neither one will trump the other. This has huge benefits in opening up a card pool that will begin small compared to a CCG and remain that way for some time.

Edited by BD Flory

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