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Kwek

Anxieties - Legacy Format

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Just read the news and I feel like having a minor anxiety attack or whatnot.

Here's hoping that the L5R LCG will blend in with Legacy.

 

Excited nonetheless as I'm aware of how FFG products go along with their tournament support.

 

Cross fingers - toes - ninjas - and babies.

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Well maybe we can cook up a homebrew of sorts to marry the two together.

 

Legacy in L5R has been a constant work-in-progress whenever a new arc rolls in. I'm inclined to look at this transition as the same thing.

Here's hoping FFG has an open ear & mind on this. :)

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I think combining is not necessarily the way to go, but in the interim, while we wait for the LCG, it would be cool if FFG supports the legacy formats. Specifically they're going to be taking ownership of (at a minimum) two expansions and one base set that could be released online for a Kolat Edition. They could also support tournaments through prize support, etc. Anything to keep the community interested in the product. 

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Well maybe we can cook up a homebrew of sorts to marry the two together.

 

Legacy in L5R has been a constant work-in-progress whenever a new arc rolls in. I'm inclined to look at this transition as the same thing.

Here's hoping FFG has an open ear & mind on this. :)

 

Just keep in mind that the playability of the new game is going to come first and foremost.  Chances are it's going to be like trying to make the Star Wars LCG work the the L5R CCG.

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I would suggest looking at what FFG did with Game of Thrones, which started as a CCG. The mechanics stayed distinct, but improved.. and then improved again. Knowing the FFG design crew, I have no doubts about the quality of the new game. 

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Since there are so many broken cards in L5R it is probably best that the CCG and the LCG will be two separate things, it will give everyone an equal starting point, for it wouldn't be fun if the veterans pull out all the cards from the massively overpowered editions of the past and build decks that have so much control that the new players will will not be able to play a single card.

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Since there are so many broken cards in L5R it is probably best that the CCG and the LCG will be two separate things, it will give everyone an equal starting point, for it wouldn't be fun if the veterans pull out all the cards from the massively overpowered editions of the past and build decks that have so much control that the new players will will not be able to play a single card.

This is why Legacy is a variant format. Wishful thinking this possibility stretches to the LCG.

Legacy to date isn't an entry level environment (but we do our best to help new players - from card pooling to even allowing the proxy rule).

So yes, it will be two separate things but I'm hoping that the new cards from the LCG will be in a way compatible with the CCG. Without this retro-compatibility/official support, Legacy will stagnate and truthfully die.

One of the biggest damage the announcement really made is roughly saying:

- All the cards you have acquired for the past 20 years are now worthless.

Edited by Kwek

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I would suggest looking at what FFG did with Game of Thrones, which started as a CCG. The mechanics stayed distinct, but improved.. and then improved again. Knowing the FFG design crew, I have no doubts about the quality of the new game. 

Since you're familiar with that changeover, would you say that the GoT game is recognizable as "itself" before and after the change?  Were the GoT players pleased with the transition (after getting over their frustration that change happened at all)?

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CCG cards not worthless, just different. One can still play with them, draft them, and build decks with them. Me do not view my collection as worthless, just different. Me could build Cube and use that to draft with friends and clanmates, me just need to assemble cards. 

 

Me personally would open up Legacy to cover the full twenty-years worth of cards instead of Samurai-onwards. Yes-yes that means a few more cards must be banned but that is just given.

 

Even me, a Nezumi or what you humans call Ratling, strive to see what M'atch-tek (tomorrow) bring.

 

:)

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One of the biggest damage the announcement really made is roughly saying:

- All the cards you have acquired for the past 20 years are now worthless.

That's a change from before?

So, business as usual, I suppose.

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But they're not worthless...neither AEG nor FFG is going to kick your door in and take your cards away.

 

They're no more worthless than cards with effects outmoded by later (or earlier) rules changes- Agasha Tameko would have been an absolute coaster in Emperor Edition's rules, since her printed effect merely replicated something that rules set allowed everyone to do.

Edited by Shiba Gunichi

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Since there are so many broken cards in L5R it is probably best that the CCG and the LCG will be two separate things, it will give everyone an equal starting point, for it wouldn't be fun if the veterans pull out all the cards from the massively overpowered editions of the past and build decks that have so much control that the new players will will not be able to play a single card.

This is why Legacy is a variant format. Wishful thinking this possibility stretches to the LCG.

Legacy to date isn't an entry level environment (but we do our best to help new players - from card pooling to even allowing the proxy rule).

So yes, it will be two separate things but I'm hoping that the new cards from the LCG will be in a way compatible with the CCG. Without this retro-compatibility/official support, Legacy will stagnate and truthfully die.

One of the biggest damage the announcement really made is roughly saying:

- All the cards you have acquired for the past 20 years are now worthless.

 

 

They are only worthless if you stop playing with them. No one is stopping you from playing with them other than yourself.

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To be honest, L5R cards were always worthless an arc later... Its not like the Design Team was consistent over 20 years. Let's kill the sacred cows, start a new story and see a new, better game in 2017.

 

*Looks at his old box of Toturi's Army cards sorted out in a memories set instead of decks* ^ This. 9001x this.

 

Marty Lund

Monkey Clan

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Hey OP, I think you will enjoy the following, if it makes you feel any better.

 

1.) Owning three copies of the entire collection of cards made each year will cost you around 150-200 USD total.

 

2.) All of your cards will be useable in any tournament format for about 10 years. Bar the eight or nine that get banned over the years.

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2.) All of your cards will be useable in any tournament format for about 10 years. Bar the eight or nine that get banned over the years.

 

 

Is it that long? According to FFG's writeup on cycles, 5-7 cycles will be legal at a time (depending on the game?).

 

For reference, FFG's set rotation policy. (Note: This may have seen some revision since posting, not sure):

 

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/11/5/a-new-stage-of-growth/

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Yeah sorry for the confusion. They do have a cycle system similar to story arcs.

 

 

 

But where as L5R's never played much legacy format, or Magic's for that matter, would Make Legend of the Five Turns, down to Legend of the two, or even one turn, FFG has a large support for it and it generally works. It tends to have additional banned cards, but not many. Around 15-20 where as the current legacy may have as few as 1,2 or 3.

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I loved L5R as a CCG and am very doubtful it will succeed as an LCG to the people who have been playing it since the beginning.  One of the most fun things to do is crack open booster boxes of a new set.  I just don't like the new direction especially since it was announced on of all days 9-11

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reading through - i appreciate the consoling posts on how an object is viewed based on the owner's perception. calling it worthless was a bit of an emotional outburst; however, we can't deny that the ending of a beloved product line leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

i'm given the impression that majority here doesn't play legacy as well. people saying that post arc - the cards were already worthless; or that their old clan were just stacked in a box. being a legacy player, you'd have an old deck and continuously keep an eye out for cards that will make it stronger.

ninjas had more people and holdings thanks to spider
toturi's army now had a better holding scheme thanks to new imperial holdings + gold splitting

i even saw a player used the latest dragon stronghold to put into play a dark ring of fire = superior dueling!

*personally, i was still awaiting for cards to make the hare clan work

 

the legacy scene was (i would admit) a minority. this was taken care of by a small group of players aptly called the legacy council (which later <sadly> had less activity as players of the said environment). majority of the small group also lost interest and called it quits, when most notably, 2 other newer formats were given more recognition by AEG. it saddened me how some of them just gave up.

 

i've been TO-ing legacy tournaments, but before that, had been an active player (for legacy) since the samurai arc. from what i saw, the format aided in the movement of cycled out cards in the benefit of the FLGS.

 

at the end of it, being a cheaper product line doesn't really entice me though i would admit that it will be a perk; however, i would look into a way to make both product lines compatible at the least. as another player recently said, we are all now legacy players.

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Well OP.

 

This is all speculation but it's going on a bit of education with this happening before to me, with A Game of Thrones, which originally was also like L5R, a CCG.

 

The game was changed from LCG and let me tell you.... first.....FFG does a -great- job at balancing cards. Great job. I feel better than Wizards and MtG and MUCH MUCH better than AEG ever did. I'll be blunt and say that I wont miss certain developers for the L5R card game. Some I felt were a bit too invested in certain factions, as that's how the ball rolls in L5R and you ended up with some pretty dumb stuff in certain arcs.

 

L5R really needs a bit of an overhaul and maybe a bit of simplification, which makes room for more complications, later.

 

Now...when the first box for L5R comes out. You will spend maybe 60-80 bucks. Open up your box and have all the cards. It's nice. No more buying boxes and boxes and boxes of boosters, then opening them all, having 5 of this rare and none of this rare after blowing 300 USD.

 

When the next expansion comes out, you buy -1- box. Around 15-20 dollars. It has cards for each faction and three copies each. That's it, you're covered for the month, then the next box comes out. Game of Thrones and L5R have one thing in common, which works very nice in this format as well: You often want to use cards from other factions, though they sometimes come at a bit of an inflated cost. (Gold, koku.) Well, you have the whole set. When you're on the forums and player A figures out that using said scorpion personality is good in this kind of Crab deck, you have 3 copies. 

 

Three years from buying the first box, you will still be using the stuff in the first box. You may have even bought the first box a few times, due to the wear and tear on some of your crucial cards. Or just wanting to have more so you don't keep moving them deck from deck, but my point is your thre copies of Bayushi Kachiko, will still be golden 3-4 years after buying her. You wont have reprint of her, or "Soul of" mechanics, or buy the same card fifty times when we get Jade, Diamond, Emperor, and Imperial Dung editions.

 

You will still have power creep, but it's very subtle. And when it starts to creep up too much, the card gets banned, but it's rare.  You do not have Legend of the Five Turns, turn into Legend of the Two turns right in the middle of the arc, because some developer wanted to win a Kotei and decided to let a OP card slip through to inflate their own ego, then after winning the Kotei, with a two turn victory they go ahead and ban the card.

 

Nah things tend to be more interactive and tend to play up les on the draw and more of the strategy. Yes you will still have bad matchups, bad draws and meta cards, butit will never be as bad as the L5R of old.

 

And then one very nice thing, which was pretty much trash for a long time, is 3+ player games. Expect them to be MUCH better, and much more interactive. I remember when Lotus Edition came out, I sat down with a bunch of beta testers and we played a one of each faction MP game. After it we all agreed the format was forgotten and trash.

 

As a legacy player you will enjoy it. If the brand sticks and stays popular enough to keep producing cards, you will likely be playing the legacy format with active players for 8-9 years, with very few banned cards at all. And it's a tournament supported format with a share of players almost as large as the limited format. It's just a part of the environment.

 

TLDR: You will enjoy a legacy format where the game is not over in 2 turns.

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