Master of Lore + Damrod

[Mndela 422]

Can Master of Lore and Damrod use their text to reduce a 2 cost trap down to 0 cost?

 

Here are their text:

 

 

[Ecthelion III 382]

Yep, as long as you use the Master of Lore first.

[alogos 171]

Well, the Master of Lore is a lasting effect until you play the next card... I don't know why the minimum of 1 should no longer be in effect as you think Ecthelion...

[Lecitadin 282]

Could also work well with Grimma hero.

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

I agree with Ec, Master of Lore applies its effect and the card is reduced to 1, no problem, then Damrod applies its effect and the cost is reduced to 0, no problem since Damrod can reduce to 0.  Master of Lore wouldn't interfere with Damrod's ability.

[Seastan 1,324]

You don't get to choose to trigger passives, right? So maybe an argument could be that you can't decide to trigger MoL first since Damrod is always active. 

[sappidus 531]

You don't get to choose to trigger passives, right? So maybe an argument could be that you can't decide to trigger MoL first since Damrod is always active. 

 

Hmm, this is a good point.

 

It makes me wonder (and maybe this is something of a separate question): if you use Master of Lore's ability and name "event", does that mean you *cannot* play Daeron's Runes as your (first) event that phase?

[GrandSpleen 1,756]

I think it would mean that Daeron's Runes would eat the bonus without giving you a benefit, but you could still play it, OR Daeron's Runes wouldn't consume the bonus.  Not sure which.  MoL "reduces" cost, and you cannot reduce the cost of Daeron's Runes, so it is either ineligible as a target (wouldn't consume the bonus), or it's eligible as a target but, since the cost can't be reduced, nothing happens (but it consumes the bonus and the next card you play will not).  I don't see any way for it to create a situation in which you are barred from playing Daeron's Runes, though.

 

Regarding the original question, if you use MoL's action, you have created a passive effect that lasts until you play a card.  You do the same thing with that Lore direct damage event, Expecting Mischief.  Expecting Mischief, like Thalin, goes off before surge etc., both Thalin's and EM are treated in the same way.  MoL's ability also creates a lasting effect, you can't consider it an "action" for the purposes of resolution order when you compare it to Damrod.  They'd have to be considered both as passive effects, and with the same trigger (playing a card), so I'd argue that this falls under 'simultaneous effects resolution' and the first player can choose the order of resolution.

[alogos 171]

Well, the problem is that, even if you choose A then B or B then A, you have to do both.

If you need to have a minimum of 0 and a minimum of 1, or a minimum 1 and a minimum of 0, I don't know what the result would be.

[Seastan 1,324]

Did you get a ruling on this Mndela?

[Mndela 422]

Not, it is still not cleared to me.

It seems better not to play Master of Lore for caution.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Mndela

[Seastan 1,324]

Hi Caleb, question for you about stacking cost reduction effects.

• Grima, Damrod, Theoden, Heir of Valandil, A Good Meal, and Beregond can reduce costs to play cards down to 0.
• Master of Lore, O Lorien, and To the Sea, To the Sea! can reduce costs to play cards down to 1.
• Secrecy, Guthlaf, Dwalin, Citadel Custodian, Take No Notice, In the Shadows, and the Record attachments have built-in cost reduction effects.

When I am combining two or more of the above effects, can I choose the order in which they are applied? Here are some distinct examples:

 

1) I discard 4 cards to lower the cost of Gildor Inglorion using To the Sea, then trigger Grima to reduce his cost to 0.

2) Exhaust Master of Lore and name "Event", reducing the cost of Out of the Wild by 1, then if I am in Secrecy it becomes cost 0.

3) Exhaust Master of Lore and name "Attachment", then playing Ranger Spikes for free with Damrod.

4) Exhaust Master of Lore and name "Attachment", reducing the cost of Scroll of Isildur by 1. Then, If I have 3 Lore heroes, it becomes free.

 

 

You can choose the order in which you resolve effects, so you can reduce a card’s cost to a minimum of 1 with one effect and then reduce it down to 0 with another effect. Each of your examples look to be correct in that regard.

Cheers,

Caleb

 

[Slothgodfather 270]

Like you said earlier though, Damrod is a passive, not an effect you are choosing.  So Caleb's response doesn't necessarily apply to that scenario since Damrod is in effect first, followed by MoL's triggered effect.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Slothgodfather

[Seastan 1,324]

Like you said earlier though, Damrod is a passive, not an effect you are choosing.  So Caleb's response doesn't necessarily apply to that scenario since Damrod is in effect first, followed by MoL's triggered effect.

 

Look at example 3.

[Slothgodfather 270]

I was thinking of MoL more of a triggered effect that has to be applied after Damrod's passive, but essentially (after triggering MoL) we are getting two passive reduction effects that will affect the cost of the card - and you can pick the order in which the passive effects resolve because they conflict.  (min 1, min 0)

 

 

Just curious since it was brought up earlier - how does MoL effect Daeron's Runes then?

Edited February 11, 2016 by Slothgodfather

[Mndela 422]

Yeah! Good to know!!!

[dalestephenson 1,482]

Taking the test literally, I think naming "event" with Master of Lore and then playing  a 0/1 cost event (e.g. Daeron's Runes) would waste the ability.  However, there probably aren't any situations where you'd use Master of Lore without playing his target next.