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rowdyoctopus

Are Toydarians and Droids the only ones listed as being immune to the Force?

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I know the Toydarians don't have anything mechanics wise that says they are immune, but it is in the fluff and I believe the devs said this was intentional to let GMs decide how to do it.

 

Also, what force powers would you allow use of on a droid?  Obviously not sense or influence, but bind?  Could you bind a droid?  If you bound a droid, could you disorient it with the strength upgrade?

 

How have you guys run this (or encountered it as a player) before?

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I think that I'd personally run Toydarians as having substantial bonuses to Discipline to withstand any sort of mental manipulation through the Force, like Influence. Provided, of course, that we're not talking about a specifically Force sensitive Toydarian - in that case he'd be exactly like any other character for this purpose. As for any non-mental Force powers I'd have them affect Toydarians normally; as far as I remember these kinds of "immunities" were against mental manipulation only, not someone using Move or Unleash on you.

 

Where droids are concerned I'd simply rule that any powers that affect someone mentally would not work, while powers that affect someone physically would. I can see Bind working just fine on a droid, I'd just narrate it as if it was damaging internal components through telekinesis or overloading circuits rather than damaging tissue and rupturing blood vessels.

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Also, what force powers would you allow use of on a droid?  Obviously not sense or influence, but bind?  Could you bind a droid?  If you bound a droid, could you disorient it with the strength upgrade?

If it’s got a physical manifestation, then it should affect anyone and everyone — including droids and toydarians.

We’ve seen Move get used on 3PO in the Ewok camp, and I would submit that Bind would be no different.

If Qui-Gon had used Bind on Watto, he definitely would have been able to throttle him — Jedi Mind Tricks like Influence might not work on him, but a telekinetic choke certainly would.

Distract should also work against them, because again it has a physical manifestation — the Force is used to cause the air waves to move in such a way as to make someone think that they heard something “over there”.

Battle Meditation wouldn’t work, any more than Influence or Sense.

Heal would be a special case, since that is a power that has a physical manifestation, but is designed to help organics and not droids. But Harm should definitely be able to hurt them.

IIRC, we recently heard (or saw) a clarification from the Devs on this matter. Is it not in the "FFG Developer Answered Questions” thread?

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Are Hutts not immune to force suggestion in the game?

 

Player option version has 3 in Willpower and an option for a free rank in Discipline, which basically makes them naturally hard targets for Influence, but not immune. Default Hutt Crime Lord stat block is 5 Willpower and 5 Discipline, which practically makes them immune to Influence, but not outright immune.

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Hutts, do not have an ability that makes the immune to mind tricks. Unlike Watto, who specifically calls out that his race is immune to such tricks of the Jedi, he simply accuses Bib Fortuna of being a weak minded fool - implying that he is not.

Hmm, fair point. Perhaps Jabba simply succeeded at a save check. Still though, I thought somewhere in the lore they mentioned that mind tricks were next to useless. I know that part of the novel "Darth Plagueis" is dedicated to his efforts to get past yinchorri's (sp) force immunity, but that point is mute as I don't think they've been introduced in the rpg yet.

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I think in past RPG iterations, they were immune, but FFG clearly has gone a more practical route.

 

Since the great canon wipe of 2013, their immunity (or lack there of) to the force is in question. I don't recall it ever coming up in the Clone Wars cartoon.

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I didn't think this needed clarification, but here goes...

 

I know the rules say that droids are immune to the mental aspects of the force.  But the force is magic.  I was asking for people to spell out things they consider mental and those they consider physical.  Influence being the obvious pure mental, and move being the obvious pure physical.  I'd almost assuredly consider bind physical, but the disorient?  Not so sure any more...

 

I guess I could see arguments either way for a lot of these things.

 

 

Side note:  My EU knowledge hardly extends past what I have read in the books for this game, if even that far.  If 4 of you posted that Bothan's were Force immune I would probably believe you, then go and read their book entry to see if it is mentioned (to get context, not to confirm).  Ok, I'm exaggerating a little, but not much.  So saying things like, "give races you think deserve it benefits when resisting the force" don't really help me.

 

I appreciate the effort, I really do, but I was hoping for something a little more concrete (not in bonuses, but in species) :D

 

 

Good call on the Hutts, I had completely forgotten they have been shown to be a least somewhat resistant, if not immune.  Or at least Jabba has.

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IIRC, we recently heard (or saw) a clarification from the Devs on this matter. Is it not in the "FFG Developer Answered Questions” thread?

 

No offense to the guy maintaining it, as it is a daunting task, but I have trouble finding things there at times.  If it is in there, I wouldn't know.

Edited by rowdyoctopus

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I'd almost assuredly consider bind physical, but the disorient?  Not so sure any more...

 

Disorient isn't really mental in this case, it's more of just that you're attempting to completely freeze somebody in place (or choke them out in Dark Side Mastery/Vader's case). So it's just that you're physically struggling to do skill checks. Disorient is just the catch-all name for the mechanical effect.

 

 

As for what the Devs have to say. So it's basically your choice on if they're fully immune to mind alterations or not.

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I'm okay with having the droid be immune to bind. Considering some of the recent topics regarding droids, some still feel they are lacking. I would be okay making their immunity shine a bit. Especially considering how little I would ever consider using influence on an NPC. But the road goes both ways. A PC couldn't use bind on a droid NPC if the table agrees.

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In my head-canon, Hutts and Toydarians would be "Force-resistant" to mental effects.  I'd try to adjudicate on a case-by-case basis, but being consistent between each.  That resistance wouldn't extend to anything beyond what would effect their mental state and, *maybe* perception.

 

I think this would be pretty cut-and-dry for simplicity (FOR ME) for most powers: Sense can sense Hutts and Toydarians without issue (they're *alive* after all) but not droids (need to check on this one's wording).  Similarly, Seek could be used on any specific Hutt, Toydarian, or Droid, as could Forseeing.  Influence can't be used on droids, and would be difficult to use on Toydarians and Hutts.

 

The big "if" would be for Misdirect, which is where the "*maybe* perception" comes into play.  If you're projecting the illusion into the minds of the targets (which it kinda sounds like you are, IIRC, since there's a limit on targets) then it would fall into 'resistant/immune' category.  If it's creation of an illusion, then they'd be subject to it.

 

Edit: Misdirect explicitly calls out "a living target" so no droids on this one.

 

I'm okay with having the droid be immune to bind. Considering some of the recent topics regarding droids, some still feel they are lacking. I would be okay making their immunity shine a bit. Especially considering how little I would ever consider using influence on an NPC. But the road goes both ways. A PC couldn't use bind on a droid NPC if the table agrees.

 

I would say the Bind power is the telekinetic 'grab' ability and exists in the physical realm, so droids could be effected, but that's totally open to interpretation, and from the sound of it by intent on the part of the devs.

Edited by LethalDose

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In my head-canon, Hutts and Toydarians would be "Force-resistant" to mental effects.  I'd try to adjudicate on a case-by-case basis, but being consistent between each.  That resistance wouldn't extend to anything beyond what would effect their mental state and, *maybe* perception.

 

I think this would be pretty cut-and-dry for simplicity (FOR ME) for most powers: Sense can sense Hutts and Toydarians without issue (they're *alive* after all) but not droids (need to check on this one's wording).  Similarly, Seek could be used on any specific Hutt, Toydarian, or Droid, as could Forseeing.  Influence can't be used on droids, and would be difficult to use on Toydarians and Hutts.

 

The big "if" would be for Misdirect, which is where the "*maybe* perception" comes into play.  If you're projecting the illusion into the minds of the targets (which it kinda sounds like you are, IIRC, since there's a limit on targets) then it would fall into 'resistant/immune' category.  If it's creation of an illusion, then they'd be subject to it.

 

I'm okay with having the droid be immune to bind. Considering some of the recent topics regarding droids, some still feel they are lacking. I would be okay making their immunity shine a bit. Especially considering how little I would ever consider using influence on an NPC. But the road goes both ways. A PC couldn't use bind on a droid NPC if the table agrees.

 

I would say the Bind power is the telekinetic 'grab' ability and exists in the physical realm, so droids could be effected, but that's totally open to interpretation, and from the sound of it by intent on the part of the devs.

Important toydarians and hutts could resist the misdirect power using discipline. Per the resisting force powers sidebar. Which would make hutts and toydarians difficult to misdirect due to the 3 willpower and possible discipline skill levels. 

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"You think you're some kind of Jedi, waving your hand around like that? I'm a Toydarian. Mind tricks don't work on me." - Watto

One way this could be read (and I am not saying this is the original intent) is that Watto isn't just referring to Jedi mind tricks, but mind tricks in general, mundane and otherwise.  At this point, Watto doesn't know Qui-Gon is a Jedi (does he ever actually find out?) but that Qui-Gon is obviously trying to pull something and Watto could simply be saying "Don't waste your time, buddy.  Toydarians are a shrewd people".  This read suggests, in-game, Will and Discipline bumps...  From a certain point of view.

 

Edited by Aluminium Falcon

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"The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded" - Obi-Wan Kenobi

 

It could be that Toydarians are inherently strong-minded, especially in regards to financial matters. As for the late great Jabba, it is pretty well established that he's quite cunning.  That said, I don't believe there's any need to rule that any entire species is immune to the force based on what was presented in the films.

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What about a Force talent which has no interaction with a target's Willpower? I'm thinking of Sleight of Mind - you just get a bonus Boost die to any Stealth check unless the observer is "immune to Force powers". I suspect droids would be immune, but Toydarians? Hutts? Jedi with strong Will and Sense powers?

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What about a Force talent which has no interaction with a target's Willpower? I'm thinking of Sleight of Mind - you just get a bonus Boost die to any Stealth check unless the observer is "immune to Force powers". I suspect droids would be immune, but Toydarians? Hutts? Jedi with strong Will and Sense powers?

In my game, Droids and Toydarians would be the exception. I'll have to go back and read the fluff for hutts in Lords of Nal Hutta, I don't think they get the same mention that Droids and Toydarians do with regards to the Force.

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I know the rules say that droids are immune to the mental aspects of the force.  But the force is magic.  I was asking for people to spell out things they consider mental and those they consider physical.  Influence being the obvious pure mental, and move being the obvious pure physical.  I'd almost assuredly consider bind physical, but the disorient?  Not so sure any more...

I would say the Disorient from Bind is likely lack of oxygen (force choke) or simply being slammed into something (force push). I'd definitely put the whole power tree on the physical side, personally.

I also now want to see a PC try to Force Choke a Hutt. :)

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