Targeting

[Rhinehard 37]

Please take a look at this image as i can't fine an answer in this forum.

 

 

Can the ship target the CR-90s rear? it looks like it can. It looks like it would be medium range.

 

I got confused because in the faq it said something about not passing through the lines on the base. I mean if its this easy to hit any hull zone paragon becomes much easier to use.

 

Thanks in advance to anyone that knows. Im going to the massing and i want to know my options

 

[ovinomanc3r 4,437]

You can't. Each hull have a yellow point. Rear hull zone of the CR90 is in range and in firing arc but you you have to draw a line from the yellow point of your attacking hull zone to the defender hull zone (the rear). If that line pass throw the arc lines of other hull you can'take see it so you can't shoot it.

[DWRR 898]

Yup, if range or LOS crosses the arc lines on the target ship then you do not have a legal shot.

[Rhinehard 37]

does it have to be dot to dot? Because it can shoot the flank in the manual description and the flank dot is out of LOS.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Rhinehard

[ovinomanc3r 4,437]

It is hard to determine the LOS in this picture. We can't see the yellow pointso but in my experience it could be in, near the limit. But it could be out too.

Anyway, this picture explain the range and the firing arc. The manual doesn't introduce you in the LOS concept at the beginning. You have the LOS explanation in the advanced rules.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Don't forget that you have to measure the closest point of the range ruler and if that crosses a line then you can't hit your target either.

[Rhinehard 37]

Don't forget that you have to measure the closest point of the range ruler and if that crosses a line then you can't hit your target either.

 

Thanks Lyraeus thats the part that confuses me. If you have to measure to the closet point on the targets base there's no way this ship could hit the flank without passing through one of the quadrant lines.

 

Its what the rules mean by closet point that confuses me. That's why i put this picture up, because the rules had already stated that the ship can hit the fore and port of this ship.

 

By extension my point was if this ship can hit the port it can hit the rear because of the way the targets quadrant lines are set up.

 

This rule is causing problems for me because i was trying to set up attacks for paragon.

[DWRR 898]

In the above diagram attacking the rear arc of the Corvette cannot happen just because of the LOS rules (yellow dot to yellow dot, no crossing of arc lines), before you even need to look at range.

[Rhinehard 37]

so it is Yellow dot to yellow dot then? Thanks mate

Edited September 10, 2015 by Rhinehard

[DWRR 898]

That is part of it for sure,but you have to meet 3 requirements.

1. Dot to dot (without the LOS crossing the targets arc lines)

2. In range (without your range measurement crossing the targets arc lines)

3. Within your own fire arc.

If the attack meets all three requirements, it is legal.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

There is my targeting 2.0 video that goes over all of this. I am sorry that it is Ling but I tried to be as concise as possible with my low level of experience recording things.

[LordStroyer 3]

Another tricky question, I am not shure about; its all about a squadron attacking a ship; need a short confirmation.

 

Rules reference states:

 

When resolving an attack, players measure line of sight
between ships and squadrons in the play area to determine
if an attack is possible and whether it is obstructed. (clear)

To determine line of sight, a player uses the range ruler
to trace a line between the attacking squadron or hull
zone and the defending squadron or hull zone. (clear)

When tracing line of sight to or from a squadron, trace
the line using the point of the squadron’s base that is
closest to the opposing squadron or hull zone.

When tracing line of sight to or from a hull zone, trace
the line using the yellow targeting point printed in that
hull zone.

 

So I determine the shortes distance (i.e. point blank range) between sq base and the hull zone of the defending ship. I get 2 points, one at the sq base and one at the ship´s hull zone. The point of the sq´s base is then used to trace the line to the yellow dot of the hull zone to determine LOS. Am I right?

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Actually you don't have to measure to the yellow dot when attacking with a squadron.

Only when measuring from a hull zone to hull zone do you need the yellow dots.

For squadrons it is from the closest point of the base to the closest point of the hull zone/squadron base you are targeting.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

I do not believe that is correct.

"• When tracing line of sight to or from a squadron, trace

the line using the point of the squadron’s base that is

closest to the opposing squadron or hull zone.

• When tracing line of sight to or from a hull zone, trace

the line using the yellow targeting point printed in that

hull zone."

You can be both tracing Line of Sight from a Squadron to a Hullzone in which case both of the above enteries would be in effect forcing you to trace Line of Sight from the closest point of the Squadrons base to the yellow dot of the Hullzone.

I am not seeing anywhere in the RRG that would suggest that you only utilize the yellow dots when going from one Hullzone to another, as the above entry states both to OR from in it's wording, not to AND from

Edited September 11, 2015 by ScottieATF

[Lyraeus 4,759]

You are right. . . That should teach me not to post at 4am when I have not yet gone to bed. . . Speaking of which. . . I miss you sleep!

[Gowtah 196]

Don't forget that you have to measure the closest point of the range ruler and if that crosses a line then you can't hit your target either.

 

This rule addition makes no sense to me.

If you have LOS and the closest unobscured part (ie not behind a hull section line) of the target hull zone base in range, why bother measuring the absolute closest range?

 

The configurations where this can happen also seem very limited. The only one I can think of is very, very close range, and even then it's a matter of a few millimeters. Most of the time when you have LOS, the closest part of the defending hull zone will be right outside of the hull line, and the shot valid.

[DWRR 898]

I think it is just a 'fine-print' rule to clear up some outlier situations that might crop up, as per the example in the FAQ.

[Gowtah 196]

OOh thanks, now I see the picture and what they're getting at. It would still be simpler to consider at all times that if the target hull base edge is out of the arc, there's no valid shot.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

The reason for the rule was because people were taking shots out of arc.

Their arc lines never actually touched the hull zone of the target bit they took the shots because they had line of sight.

[DiabloAzul 2,636]

For additional reference:

 

 

An Imperial Custom Corvette has caught up to a group of freighters smuggling arms for the rebel terrorists. The Corvette (A) powers up the turbolasers in its front hull zone and prepares to disintegrate the traitorous ships.

 

-There is a clear line of sight to the rear hull zones of ships B and C.

-There is a clear line of sight to the left hull zone of ship D: the attacker's own hull zones are ignored for the LoS and range check, provided the defending hull zone is within the firing arc.

-No attack can be made against the right hull zone of ship B: the line of sight crosses through the freighter's rear hull zone.

-No attack can be made against the left hull zone of ship C: although the line of sight (dot-to-dot) is clear, the range measurement (in blue) crosses the Gozanti's rear hull zone.

[Gowtah 196]

Yeah, that's exactly why I'm saying the wording could have been better thought out.

 

In the faq example restated by Lyraeus, I can understand the use of such a rule : preventing people from taking shots at hull zones which aren't directly in their arc of fire.

 

However, in your example DiabloAzul, which is pretty much the case I was thinking of earlier, it seems like this shot on C left side is invalid only as a side effect of the rule wording. It's in the arc, obviously in range and in LOS, why wouldn't that shot be valid if not for that rule wording? There's like 60% of the attacking ship base in plain view of the target hull zone.

 

This makes no sense when, on the other hand, you can have the tiniest corner of a ship base in arc and if LOS is fine, then you can take that shot.

 

Anyhow, not a big deal.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

So in his example, the closest point of A's forward arc means that when you check range it will cross the line of C's left arc line.

However, C can attack A with both the left and rear hull zone.

[Gowtah 196]

However, C can attack A with both the left and rear hull zone.

 

Exactly, which makes it hard to justify the rule by saying that C rear zone obstructs its left side.

 

This rule addendum is entirely counterintuitive and somewhat nonsensical in half of the situations described so far.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

It is but alas it is impossible to fix everything

[Gowtah 196]

True, it's however possible to fix some carefully so as not to break others.