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Forgottenlore

the rulebook is new and there are changes

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@Zephaus: I'm done covering Biggs, since I've said my piece multiple times in multiple ways.

I will say that you're misreading the first sentence in the attack rules. You "may" measure distance because the rules don't (and shouldn't) require you, for example, to measure range to everything on the table.

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1- Yeah I think it is deliberately overpriced.

 

...

 

I'm not even going to bother. If you think this you're a completely lost cause.

 

 

3- I'm unclear here - Are you talking about the show "Rebels" here?   Because I'm really just talking about the game.   These ships are configurable.  You can load out a regular academy pilot TIE with extra Hull, or Shields, or an Angine Upgrade if you want... then suddenly it's not the same as a TIE we saw on screen.   I think weather we make our TIE a V1 or an X1 has no reflection of what happens on the shows we watch... it's simply from a game-play perspective.   If the Inquisitor flew a "V1" on the show thats fine... but it's the same as Vader having an X1 in the film, and me having the option to fly him without the X1 title in this game.

 

Stick an Engine Upgrade on a TIE fighter and it's still a TIE fighter, just with an upgraded engine. Remove the TIE/x1 title from a TIE advanced x1 and it doesn't cease to be a TIE advanced x1.

 

Vader's TIE is a TIE advanced x1. The title is called TIE/x1 because it needed a name, but not equipping it doesn't make Vader's TIE not a TIE advanced x1. Not equipping the TIE/v1 title to the Inquistor doesn't make his ship not a TIE advanced v1. The big brick of a fighter is a TIE/x1, and what FGD calls the "reverse crowbat" is a TIE/v1.

This makes the intent is blindingly obvious.

 

Yes it does.  It absolutely does.   Removing the Slave-1 Title from a Firespray, and it's no longer the Slave-1.   Same goes for every other title imaginable.  Vader's card still states X1 on it, apparently for fluff, but all other TIE Advanced ships do NOT have the X1 on their ships.   You can't just decide that Juno Eclipse is an X1 without the Title.   People can't just arbitrarily decide that ships have upgrades that they do not have.   I can't just invent new rules on the fly.   Obviously I'm taking this way too far here, but it's only because I have no reason where you are going with this.... as it's OBVIOUS that when you remove an upgrade from a card... the upgrade is no longer on the card, and you seem to be stating the opposite. 

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Yes it does.  It absolutely does.

 

The Slave 1 is a specific Firespray.

 

You can't just decide that Juno Eclipse is an X1 without the Title.

 

The ship she is flying is called a TIE advanced x1, just as the ship Howlrunner is flying is a TIE/ln.

 

The TIE bomber is also known as the TIE/sa. They're synonymous. TIE/sa, TIE bomber, same thing. Say they release a title for the TIE bomber called TIE/sa that gives it some sort of fix-style buff. Is a TIE bomber that doesn't equip TIE/sa not a TIE/sa? That is to say, is a TIE bomber that fails to equip TIE/sa somehow not a TIE bomber?

 

The ship Juno Eclipse flies in X-wing is a TIE advanced x1, also known as a TIE/x1 and sometimes abbreviated to TIE advanced. The ship the Inquisitor flies is a TIE advanced v1, also known as a TIE/v1. The TIE advanced Prototype is the TIE advanced v1. Same thing, different name. The Inquisitor's TIE may not have the TIE/v1 title card equipped, but it's still a TIE/v1 because that's what the ship is. Every TIE advanced prototype is a TIE advanced v1.

 

This is a TIE advanced x1.

ULVBqme.jpg

If Juno Eclipse isn't flying a TIE/x1, she's not flying this. So what is she flying?

Edited by Blue Five

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"There is also nothing in the new rulebook that clarifies the issue about dropping a bomb before SLAMing."

 

The new rules reference has this interesting statement on page 4 under "Activation Phase", fourth bullet-point in the left column:

"When an ability instructs a ship to execute a specific maneuver, it resolves only the "Execute Maneuver" step."

The SLAM card says to "choose and execute a maneuver on the ship's dial."  I would say that clarifies it perfectly--you're not revealing a dial, so you're not dropping a bomb.

 

My apologies to Vorpal for my snark in the other thread on this subject, I stand sit in my wheelchair corrected.

 

This is from a new topic I started on the same topic:

 

 

New Rules Reference says  

When an ability instructs a ship to execute a specific maneuver, it resolves only the "Execute Maneuver" step of the Activation phase.

 

emphasis added

 

Why this does NOT mean that a K-wing can't drop a bomb before executing its SLAM

 

1.  These rules were obviously written before wave 7.  (List of bombs does not include conner, ion, or clusters)  

2.  The SLAM action does not instruct you to perform a specific maneuver (think Daredevil).  Instead, SLAM instructs you to choose a maneuver.

 

FAQ will be needed to clear this up but I think the design intent is clear that a ship can drop a bomb before a SLAM maneuver.

 

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Well lets just refer to her pilot card to settle the discussion of what ship she is flying.

Juno-eclipse.png

I mean honestly...  I think you are talking 100% about lore, and I'm talking 100% about the game.  

 

And the ship on that card is a TIE advanced x1. The ship in that little ring in the corner is a TIE advanced x1. The ship written under her name is TIE advanced, which is usually synonmous with TIE advanced x1 (it's sure as hell not a TIE avenger, which is the other TIE advanced).

 

I'm attempting to make it clear to you what the names TIE/v1 and TIE/x1 mean. They're the names of two specific models of ship. The TIE/x1 is the one on that card with the angular wings and extended body. The TIE/v1 is the one on the Inquisitor's card with the armoured curved wings, and much less significantly extended body.

 

A TIE/x1 is a ship, and a TIE/v1 is a different ship. Each have a title card with their name on it that gives them a special ability, but they are still TIE/x1s and TIE/v1s without their respective title cards equipped because otherwise they aren't anything.

 

Equipping the TIE/x1 title to a TIE/v1 is like equipping a title called "T-65 X-wing" to a Y-wing. FFG would never make such a card equippable to a Y-wing, and if they wanted it to be they would call it something else.

 

The fact that the name of the TIE advanced's fix card is a synonym for the ship itself is an overwhelming indicator that it's only meant to go on that ship.

Edited by Blue Five

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You can call it a TIE Advanced X1 until the cows come home.   The ship still reads, and will always read, TIE Advanced.   The Dial too!   You need to draw a line of distinction between what you know of the lore, and the mechanics of the game.  In terms of game-play, certain things aren't going to work out the same way they do with lore. 

 

  It'd be like if there was a new ship that came out called an Incom XYZ.   Maybe it had a non-unique title called "Super Ship", and that title was restricted to Incom only.   Would you then argue that it coudl go on an X-Wing because X-Wing is made by Incom? 

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This was always painfully obvious, I still can't believe we had that thread.

Someone is still going to argue that since "Adv." obviously stands for "Advance" therefore it DOES have the whole name and can take the X1 title.

Sounds like I need to go read the other thread, because, yes, "adv." stands for "advanced," and therefore it can take the X1 title. Not sure why this would even be questioned...

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This was always painfully obvious, I still can't believe we had that thread.

Someone is still going to argue that since "Adv." obviously stands for "Advance" therefore it DOES have the whole name and can take the X1 title.

Sounds like I need to go read the other thread, because, yes, "adv." stands for "advanced," and therefore it can take the X1 title. Not sure why this would even be questioned...

 

 

no it does not

 

"Adv." only stands for "Advanced" according to us squishy humans

 

in pure game terms, no. Adv != Advance

 

hence why Tie Adv. Prototype only only goes on the Tie Adv. Prototype, and the Tie Advance only only goes on the Tie Advance (x1)

 

sorry folks, the rules care not for your intuition. There is only binary, cold computer logic at work.

 

 

the designers care, because they gave you a way to recognize the Tie Advance v1 without it being stupid broken :) (imagine: inq with ATC...ugh)

Edited by ficklegreendice

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This was always painfully obvious, I still can't believe we had that thread.

Someone is still going to argue that since "Adv." obviously stands for "Advance" therefore it DOES have the whole name and can take the X1 title.

Sounds like I need to go read the other thread, because, yes, "adv." stands for "advanced," and therefore it can take the X1 title. Not sure why this would even be questioned...

 

It's because of the syntax of the wording.   We all know ADV. stands for advanced, but many thought the abbreviation was FFG's way of making them distinct from each other, so as to NOT have the title available for both ships. 

HOWEVER....

The Raider's titles require a Raider Corvette only, yet the Raider ship card has the word Corvette abbreviated to Corv.  - So now the argument has been reawakened.  Clearly it's going to require an FAQ.  I think the X1 ought to work on the prototype, but some do not.  I suspect they don't WANT it to work on there because of lore, or perceieved power issues... but I'll let FFG be the judge in this case.  

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This was always painfully obvious, I still can't believe we had that thread.

Someone is still going to argue that since "Adv." obviously stands for "Advance" therefore it DOES have the whole name and can take the X1 title.

Sounds like I need to go read the other thread, because, yes, "adv." stands for "advanced," and therefore it can take the X1 title. Not sure why this would even be questioned...

 

no it does not

 

"Adv." only stands for "Advanced" according to us squishy humans

 

in pure game terms, no. Adv != Advance

 

hence why Tie Adv. Prototype only only goes on the Tie Adv. Prototype, and the Tie Advance only only goes on the Tie Advance (x1)

 

sorry folks, the rules care not for your intuition. There is only binary, cold computer logic at work.

 

 

the designers care, because they gave you a way to recognize the Tie Advance v1 without it being stupid broken :) (imagine: inq with ATC...ugh)

Raider-Class Corv.

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This was always painfully obvious, I still can't believe we had that thread.

Someone is still going to argue that since "Adv." obviously stands for "Advance" therefore it DOES have the whole name and can take the X1 title.

Sounds like I need to go read the other thread, because, yes, "adv." stands for "advanced," and therefore it can take the X1 title. Not sure why this would even be questioned...

 

no it does not

 

"Adv." only stands for "Advanced" according to us squishy humans

 

in pure game terms, no. Adv != Advance

 

hence why Tie Adv. Prototype only only goes on the Tie Adv. Prototype, and the Tie Advance only only goes on the Tie Advance (x1)

 

sorry folks, this game cares not for your intuition. There is only binary, cold computer logic at work.

Ok, well I will admit to not having my cards in front of me. If it says "Tie adv. prototype" as the ship title, then yes that's different. But no one can make the argument that "adv." does not mean "advanced." That was my point.

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You can now target lock a ship you already have a lock on, the old lock is discarded. A minor change to a couple abilities.

 

 

I'm confused about this? If you already have a target lock on a ship, why or what situation would you want to target lock on it again?

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"Adv." only stands for "Advanced" according to us squishy humans

 

in pure game terms, no. Adv != Advance

Then how does the Raider equip the titles that it comes with?
 

You know what? At the moment, I am 100% okay with the prospect that the Raider titles can't be equipped to any ship. Because the Raider still works fine without its titles, while the TIE Adv. Prototype is completely busted with the TIE/x1 title.

You can now target lock a ship you already have a lock on, the old lock is discarded. A minor change to a couple abilities.

 

I'm confused about this? If you already have a target lock on a ship, why or what situation would you want to target lock on it again?

It's a corner case, but say Dutch Vander and Garven Dreis are fighting a lone VT-49 Decimator. Dutch already has a target lock on the Decimator, but he wants a new one so he can give one to Garven, too.

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You can now target lock a ship you already have a lock on, the old lock is discarded. A minor change to a couple abilities.

 

 

I'm confused about this? If you already have a target lock on a ship, why or what situation would you want to target lock on it again?

 

Redline's ability to have 2 target locks and having to use 1 for missiles leaving 1 for the attack.  This is very useful actually.

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You can call it a TIE Advanced X1 until the cows come home.   The ship still reads, and will always read, TIE Advanced.   The Dial too!   You need to draw a line of distinction between what you know of the lore, and the mechanics of the game.  In terms of game-play, certain things aren't going to work out the same way they do with lore. 

 

  It'd be like if there was a new ship that came out called an Incom XYZ.   Maybe it had a non-unique title called "Super Ship", and that title was restricted to Incom only.   Would you then argue that it coudl go on an X-Wing because X-Wing is made by Incom? 

 

An Incom isn't a synonym for an X-wing.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that the ship in the Inquistor's TIE expansion pack and the TIE/x1 are completely different ships. Equipping TIE/x1 to a TIE advanced v1 is like equipping BTL-S3 Y-wing to an A-wing. FFG simply wouldn't make that possible.

 

I guess like that business with the Raider's arcs this one's going to come down to bothering Frank with another email again.

Edited by Blue Five

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You can now target lock a ship you already have a lock on, the old lock is discarded. A minor change to a couple abilities.

 

 

I'm confused about this? If you already have a target lock on a ship, why or what situation would you want to target lock on it again?

 

 

Dutch Vander and TIE/v1.

Edited by Blue Five

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"Adv." only stands for "Advanced" according to us squishy humans

 

in pure game terms, no. Adv != Advance

 

 

Then how does the Raider equip the titles that it comes with?

 

Problem solved if they base it on the dial text. Raider Class Corvette on the dial.

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*thud*

"Do you think this post adds to the discussion? (Y/N)"

 

 

It adds my opinion.

It's a tired argument the whole adv/advanced thing.

 

It's bloody obvious that the X-1 is for the TIE Advanced, and the V-1 is for the TIE Advanced Prototype.

 

T-65 and T-70 x-wings are no different.

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"Adv." only stands for "Advanced" according to us squishy humans

 

in pure game terms, no. Adv != Advance

 

 

Then how does the Raider equip the titles that it comes with?

 

 

idk, I've never run a huge ship :unsure:

 

 

my guess is FAQ for raider, Tie Advance works as obviously written

 

epic, after all, isn't part of the base game :P

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Need to explain firtyher about redline - if you have fcs on redline you get 2 target locks after attack.  If you spend 1 it leaves only 1 and then you have 1 for missile attack but none for reroll for the actual attack.  Allowing TL'ing on a ship you have TL on would allow redline to have both each time so her ability is useful.

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