Hounds Tooth title, The Nashta Pup, and Veteran Instincts

[WWHSD 9,273]

 

5.  Therefore, upgrade cards that affect pilot skill would still be in effect, since they are a) still attached to the destroyed ship and b) not technically affecting a ship in play, but the destroyed ship.

This is a huge assumption, though. The simplest rule would be "When a card has been removed from play, it has no effect." You're positing a rule instead that "When a card has been removed from play, it can only affect other cards that have been removed from play."

So why introduce that additional complication? The only thing it changes at the moment (that is, barring additional references to destroyed ships) is the VI - Nashtah Pup interaction.

 

 

Once the cards are off the board, I don't think it matters what type of card they are, they cease having an effect on the game. The way I see it you've got an all or nothing situation depending on whether the stats for the Pup are something that are set at the time of deployment or if they are evaluated constantly.  

If the Pup gets the PS and ability of the Hound's Tooth at the time of deployment (which is what I tend to believe) then the stats of the Pup are affected by VI, Damaged Cockpit, Injured Pilot, Swarm Tactics, Decoy (and maybe a couple of things that I forgot).

 

If the stats for the Pup are not set at the time of deployment but are more or less just variable that are linked to the VY-666 pilot card then neither VI, Damaged Cockpit, or anything else is going to continue having an effect. 

 

[DailyRich 3,346]

Like I said, I'm fine with it either way.  Really, if you're pinning your hopes on a Z-95 saving your bacon after your 6 shield, 6 hull, minimum-35 point YV gets blown up, you've got bigger problems than worrying about what your pilot skill might be.

[quasistellar 736]

At first I thought this argument was silly, and then I read the Pup text and VI text closely. . . and now it seems that unless FFG specifically states otherwise, you would keep the PS that you got from VI.  And, lets be realistic:  if you have a ps9 Bossk in a z-95, it really isn't going to be much different than a ps7 Bossk in a z-95.  If in some crazy universe where you actually have initiative and actually manage to get, say, Soontir Fel in your arc at the same time you're in his arc, then cthulhu bless you, you deserve to take that shot first and have it promptly negated by focus focus evade autothrusters before he blows you away.

 

I can see it going both ways.  It will definitely need a faq.

[DailyRich 3,346]

You know, we've been focusing so hard on the Pup card, we've been overlooking the Hound's Tooth card. It says "After you are destroyed, before you are removed from the play area..." So at the point the Pup is deployed, nothing has been removed.

Consider me now on the "everything counts" side.

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

Answer to an email from FFG on a German forum:

 

 

So yeah basically the ship is there JUST to be a guide for where the Pup comes out of. In every other way, it is destroyed like a normal ship.

 

You take from the printed card value/ability, that's it.

 

Case closed.

[Parravon 5,217]

So, any pilot skill adjustments are simply gone. Sounds about right to me.

[Smuggler 556]

Answer to an email from FFG on a German forum:

 

 

So yeah basically the ship is there JUST to be a guide for where the Pup comes out of. In every other way, it is destroyed like a normal ship.

 

You take from the printed card value/ability, that's it.

 

Case closed.

I can't get that picture to load. Any link to the actual forumpost with that mail?

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

Link to my screencap: https://ton.twitter.com/i/ton/data/dm/639723038951477251/639723038993420288/_d4DdAFm.jpg

 

Cannot find the link to the thread now as it is lost in the mass of new core set posts on FB.

[Toqtamish 3,643]

Link to my screencap: https://ton.twitter.com/i/ton/data/dm/639723038951477251/639723038993420288/_d4DdAFm.jpg

 

Cannot find the link to the thread now as it is lost in the mass of new core set posts on FB.

Twitter link not worKing. 

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

Try this again: https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/11894421_10153577510298104_2322261010696760512_o.jpg

[Smuggler 556]

Try this again: https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/11894421_10153577510298104_2322261010696760512_o.jpg

Thanks, that one worked.

[StephenEsven 632]

So which destroyed ship has the Hound's Tooth equipped?

Edited September 5, 2015 by StephenEsven

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

The YV-666 that you put it on.

 

Basically, the rules for that card (Hound's Tooth title) and the rules for what you do to eject the Pup are new rules. We've never had a ship eject from another before. So they work a little differently than the usual play style. The order is now kinda like this:

 

• YV-666 is dealt damage cards.
• Damage cards total the remaining HP on the ship (or more) and it is destroyed. THEN there is a new step slotted in here JUST for a ship with the HT title.
• You leave the YV where it is (even though it is damaged) so that you can place the Pup.
• You (as per the card and now FFGs email) use the PS and ability of the YV that was destroyed for the Pup's pilot. Ignoring upgrades as it is destroyed.
• You remove the YV model and discard an damage cards as it is destroyed.

So yes, the YV-666 is on the board (when it would normally be instantly removed) but ONLY to use as a guide for where Pup comes from and to use the text of the Hound's Tooth title card.. For every other game purpose, it is no longer in existence. It is dead. It is an ex-ship!

 

To make it easier, you could discard the damage cards and flip over all the upgrade cards BEFORE deploying the Pup, just so it's clear what you need to look at and transfer. Just the pilot card for the YV.

[StephenEsven 632]

I was trying to make a point. If the mail says you ignore all upgrade cards, you also have to ignore the Hound's Tooth card. Thus making the reference on the Pup not work. The ruling basically contradicts itself.

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

Not really. As I said, the rules for how the Pup works overrule a FEW of the usual rules. I set them out above.

 

And they are not saying the cards are ignored entirely, the FFG ruling is saying that when TRANSFERRING things to the Pup (as per the problem we had in this thread), you ignore the upgrades and damage. So when transferring the pilot skill for example, you ignore any upgrades or downgrades to it you may of had on the YV.

 

Same with the title. The title lets you do something when destroyed. The title doesn't transfer or even need to be 'there'. It just lets you activate rules (that are in the rules in the pack, not on the card) when you are destroyed.

 

Like Dead Man's Switch. By your extrapolation of their statement, that doesn't work either. but it does, because the rules say it does. It lets something happen when you are destroyed.

[WWHSD 9,273]

With the new FAQ ruling on this does that mean that the PS from Damaged Cockpit, Swarm Tactics, and Decoy as well as the loss of pilot ability from Injured Pilot transfer as well? Mechanically they are the same a VI and Adarptability.

 

 

FAQ, pg: 9

"If Bossk is equipped with Veteran Instincts or

Adaptability and Hound’s Tooth, the Nashtah

Pup Pilot keeps that modified pilot skill."

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

No the crit does not. The FAQ states 2 cards explicitly that stay in effect when 1 pilot uses the Hound's Tooth title.

 

If they wanted to reverse it, they would of stated it.

 

Decoy and Swarm Tactics would still apply (and I would say always have) as they are outside influences.

[WWHSD 9,273]

No the crit does not. The FAQ states 2 cards explicitly that stay in effect when 1 pilot uses the Hound's Tooth title.

 

If they wanted to reverse it, they would of stated it.

 

Decoy and Swarm Tactics would still apply (and I would say always have) as they are outside influences.

 

The FAQ doesn't say that those cards stay in effect. It says that the Pup inherits those values. If the Pup is inheriting the values for Pilot Skill and Pilot Ability at the time that the Hound's Tooth is destroyed, it shouldn't matter effect set the value.

 

It's important to understand why a FAQ entry works the way that it does to be able to apply the entry to other similar effects that aren't specifically called out.

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

I didn't mean the cards are still there/equipped, just that they outlined 2 specific effects from equipped cards that carry over (in effect only) to the Pup.

 

I suppose an argument could be made for an against the crit and the other outside effects now, as it did not say anything about them.

[CDKENNE 44]

If pilot skill is previously altered and is then reduced per this ruling, why does a ship equipped with R2-D6 get to maintain it's EPT when R2-D6 is discarded via Integrated Astromech? I was informed by a TO at a tournament that R2-D6 was ruled to function this way in an email.

 

VI - Adds 2 to the ship's PS

R2-D6 - Adds an EPT slot to the upgrade bar

 

What is the difference in these rulings?

[Jehan Menasis 1,562]

I love U turns. Specially when they make sense.

[DR4CO 6,234]

If pilot skill is previously altered and is then reduced per this ruling, why does a ship equipped with R2-D6 get to maintain it's EPT when R2-D6 is discarded via Integrated Astromech? I was informed by a TO at a tournament that R2-D6 was ruled to function this way in an email.

 

VI - Adds 2 to the ship's PS

R2-D6 - Adds an EPT slot to the upgrade bar

 

What is the difference in these rulings?

 

Because the Pup isn't looking at the upgrades at all. He's looking at the Pilot Skill value, which has been altered by VI. Thus the Pup reads it as the base PS+2 and runs with it.

Edited March 15, 2016 by DR4CO

[CDKENNE 44]

Unless I'm interpreting incorrectly, the ruling in the email pictured above states that the Pup only gets printed value which would exclude the altered Pilot Skill.

 

IMHO if the EPT added to the upgrade bar is kept with R2-D6, then the printed pilot skill +2 should also be retained in the case of Nashtah Pup.

 

I can't tell if we are agreeing or not DR4CO lol

[DR4CO 6,234]

Unless I'm interpreting incorrectly, the ruling in the email pictured above states that the Pup only gets printed value which would exclude the altered Pilot Skill.

 

You're not, but a new FAQ just landed which says otherwise.

 

IMHO if the EPT added to the upgrade bar is kept with R2-D6, then the printed pilot skill +2 should also be retained in the case of Nashtah Pup.

 

I can't tell if we are agreeing or not DR4CO lol

 

It does, and we are. 

[CDKENNE 44]

I've been at work all day and haven't had a chance to read it in it's entirety yet