For goodness sake don't measure with your fingers

[ctsparky 33]

So I know that measuring with your fingers is illegal. So after watching yet another video where it happens: please call a to and get that guy outta here..  

 

just don't do it.  I'm all for flying casual.. until it is a regional or higher.

 

 

 

 

 

[Hobojebus 11,341]

That's why ball peen hammers were invented.

[ScottieATF 2,864]

Some players just don't seem to understand.

Edited August 30, 2015 by ScottieATF

[flightmaster101 1,534]

Can you point out the timeframe when it happens?

[ForceSensitive 1,991]

**** thing is I'm so used to doing it now, and I used to be against it. I kept having to stop myself last week and just shove my hands in my pockets. It just seems so natural to me now.

And I'm thinking about it now like, well, people do it in chess in a round about way. Not that I know what would happen in higher chess play but whatever. If nothing else I should get rid of the habit so I stop giving away info in the planning phase.

[Plainsman 1,002]

Can you point out the timeframe when it happens?

Yes, please!

[MrTyres 74]

Well, about 13:50, the player on the right actually uses his 2 straight to measure the distance on all three ships before choosing which one to activate. The commentators even comment on it.

 

ETA: Then the player on the left uses his fingers at 16:35

Edited August 31, 2015 by MrTyres

[Critias 877]

Yeah, "fly casual" doesn't mean "completely and repeatedly ignore the rules and insist your opponent shrug it off."  I always feel like there's an excluded middle in these types of conversations.

[flightmaster101 1,534]

Yeah, "fly casual" doesn't mean "completely and repeatedly ignore the rules and insist your opponent shrug it off."  I always feel like there's an excluded middle in these types of conversations.

Agreed. I played a game where my opponent repeatedly "forgot" to de cloak his phantoms until after my bwings moved. I called him on it then he got really pissy, wouldn't concede his ships were in arc At all, crap like that. The TO had to babysit our game b/c he turned into such an asshat.

[Xmage 112]

He actually does it 3-4 times during this match.

[TasteTheRainbow 8,636]

Quite a lot of players don't know it's illegal. Best to assume you are just informing them of the rule.

[Blail Blerg 7,335]

I used to do this. But it is definitely cheating. Don't.

[Slugrage 5,007]

When I played my very first competitive tournament, I noticed one of my opponents doing it, but never thought to comment on it. It wasn't until after that I realized that his four fingers together were pretty darn close to a 2-straight move, which he kept doing after his ships moved to apparently plot out his next turn.

[Ebak 1,102]

Yeah, the commentary was done post game and obviously once the game is done there's nothing that you can do, all you can do is simply go along with it and make sure the TO is informed for the future.

 

I commentate on my FLGS X-Wing streams and there were moments in our latest stream where we did not notice an incorrect ruling, and there were some instances we did. For example we noticed a critical simultaneous fire moment that resulted in one opponent losing another ship, so it was definitely a difference maker.

[LucCros 195]

The commentators say Davy has explicitly said hand measuring is not allowed, but is it actually in the core or tournament rules at this time? (Maybe I missed it..Not saying it should be allowed, just wondering)

[yourtruly 34]

**** thing is I'm so used to doing it now, and I used to be against it. I kept having to stop myself last week and just shove my hands in my pockets. It just seems so natural to me now.

And I'm thinking about it now like, well, people do it in chess in a round about way. Not that I know what would happen in higher chess play but whatever. If nothing else I should get rid of the habit so I stop giving away info in the planning phase.

 

In chess, once you touch a piece you have to move that piece. Once you let go of the piece, your move is then finished.

[macar 408]

The commentators say Davy has explicitly said hand measuring is not allowed, but is it actually in the core or tournament rules at this time? (Maybe I missed it..Not saying it should be allowed, just wondering)

any sort of pre measuring is not allowed, regardless if it is a template or fingers. That is stated in the rules of Tournament play. It falls along the lines of if you place the template for a boost or BR you must do it if you fit.

[Robin Graves 6,050]

That's why ball peen hammers were invented.

 

Turns out they also don't like it when you measure with other bodyparts...

[ForceSensitive 1,991]

**** thing is I'm so used to doing it now, and I used to be against it. I kept having to stop myself last week and just shove my hands in my pockets. It just seems so natural to me now.

And I'm thinking about it now like, well, people do it in chess in a round about way. Not that I know what would happen in higher chess play but whatever. If nothing else I should get rid of the habit so I stop giving away info in the planning phase.

In chess, once you touch a piece you have to move that piece. Once you let go of the piece, your move is then finished.

Right, which is where the round about thing starts, like in the case of a rook, I can slide it up and down the board and think about which square it will actually end in right? Like barrel rolling for one thing, but is there anything against putting your finger down where you think your going to have a piece to avoid touching any?

Honestly I've never used it for range, always just using a finger to mark where a corner could end up or where a center point is going to be too visualize, hence chess location reference and questions

Edited August 31, 2015 by ForceSensitive

[yourtruly 34]

 

 

**** thing is I'm so used to doing it now, and I used to be against it. I kept having to stop myself last week and just shove my hands in my pockets. It just seems so natural to me now.

And I'm thinking about it now like, well, people do it in chess in a round about way. Not that I know what would happen in higher chess play but whatever. If nothing else I should get rid of the habit so I stop giving away info in the planning phase.

 

In chess, once you touch a piece you have to move that piece. Once you let go of the piece, your move is then finished.

Right, which is where the round about thing starts, like in the case of a rook, I can slide it up and down the board and think about which square it will actually end in right?

 

 

Yeah that would be fine.

[eagletsi111 1,113]

I'm all for flying casual, but I hate people who measure with their fingers in this game.   It happens a lot.     I don't understand why no one stops it.   I pointed it out at two regionals and both players seemed upset.   One even said, it's a habit what happened to fly casual?        

 

FFG should put a stop to it.   If you do it and are caught you should be removed from the tourney.

[ScootyPuffJunior 51]

Hey! I painted those Blue Squadron B-wings the player on the right is flying!

 

I've played the guy on left in a tournament a couple of months ago and I did not notice him premeasuring anything, so maybe he's figured out that you can't do that. I would have said something if he had did though.

Edited August 31, 2015 by ScootyPuffJunior

[kgwradford 29]

 

The commentators say Davy has explicitly said hand measuring is not allowed, but is it actually in the core or tournament rules at this time? (Maybe I missed it..Not saying it should be allowed, just wondering)

any sort of pre measuring is not allowed, regardless if it is a template or fingers. That is stated in the rules of Tournament play. It falls along the lines of if you place the template for a boost or BR you must do it if you fit.

 

im agreeing u shouldnt be allowed just like to find the rules to back it up. but looking through the torny rules i cant find anything about pre measuring but looking at the main rules this is all i can find on pre meausring for movement  "Each selection on the maneuver dial has a corresponding maneuver template, which measures the ship’s movement during the Activation phase. During the Planning phase, players cannot use maneuver templates in order to “test” where ships will end up. Instead, they must plan their maneuvers by estimating their ships’ movement in their heads."    now this says u cant use the templates but nothing about fingers. just wondering were the rule is that u cant use fingers. now i could argue that the last part of that says in your head as well but also the middle only says templates. 

Edited August 31, 2015 by kgwradford

[ViscerothSWG 3,940]

'Must estimate in their head' excludes all other forms of estimating including fingers.

[GroggyGolem 2,844]

So I know that measuring with your fingers is illegal. So after watching yet another video where it happens: please call a to and get that guy outta here..  

 

just don't do it.  I'm all for flying casual.. until it is a regional or higher.

 

 

I pointed this out on the X-Wing reddit when the video was posted. The first instance of the player premeasuring with his fingers was 9 minutes, 48 seconds in. He leaves his finger there for 2 nearly 3 seconds.

 

It was at this point I stopped watching the video initially.

 

Now I've come back to see how many other times he premeasures.

 

Second premeasure at 16:41, this time using both index finger and thumb. He leaves his hand there until about 16:46.

 

Third premeasure at 22:50 until 22:55.

 

Fourth at 23:15 until 23:30 in which he changed the position of his hand at least twice to simulate boosting into different directions.

 

Fifth at 27:06 until 27:10.

 

1 premeasure is understandable to miss but 5? This is sad.