Shark officially jumped!

[DariusAPB 6,925]

Shame they stopped. Since (as is apparent in this thread) some of us are big into oldhammer, I think it'd work really well.

 

Ah well, could still happen. We have Marines in Fantasy now...

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

There is also an early WHHFRP scenario where an ambull from 40k is caught in a warp gate and ends up in a mine in the old world and has to be defeated by the players.

 

Ah, ambulls.  Wherefore art thou ambulls?

 

[Gadge 4,294]

These are my Ambulls.

 

They have a rep for being quite rare but i find this odd as hundreds were cast up in the 80s and i personally had several hundred cast up to use in 'ambull hunt' open day games and give away as prizes in the 2000s.

 

[FTS Gecko 24,135]

Hmmm, didn't realise there were two different poses.

 

I was a an of the old metal Genestealers and Hybrids (except the toilet Patriarch), prior to the "straight-outta-first-edition-Space Hulk" current plastic kit.

[Gadge 4,294]

I dont think there are two poses, i repositioned mine for  a little variety i think

 

edit: actually looks like there were two upper bodies.  i think i have two of each but bent one of each slightly for variety

 

pop fact:

 

The ambull was originally supposed to be represented by the citadel D&D 'umber hulk' model, all the original rt monsters were designed to be represented by existing models or commonly available toys.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Gadge

[DariusAPB 6,925]

including space vampires...

 

funny story about that involving a co-op necromunda campaign about a zombie uprising, a badass vampire I thought would be a great boss, a melta gun, and me being depressed for a week.

[Gadge 4,294]

Karloth Valois in necromunda is a space vampire ,  its there if you read between the lines

[DariusAPB 6,925]

True, and there are a lot of little things like that in 40K. but I wanted something generic to lead zombie hordes and.... not get oneshotted by a meltagun.

[DariusAPB 6,925]

So it seems I was mistaken, tac squad doesn't have a hvY Bolter. I used the sternguard one for mine, and a forgeworld drum-fed for another.

[DariusAPB 6,925]

Right now I have the spare cash for a thunderhawk gunship. It's kinda the space marine players holy grail. I could just purchase it online, get it shipped. done.

 

I don't often have that spare cash lying around, so .. yeah.

Right now, I don't even want to buy it.

 

That's how much I think 40K has fallen in grace for me.

 

I could actually buy the very real startings of a forgeworld 30K army and I literally don't want to.

[Skeve 58]

I clicked on this thread just because it has the best single phrase for a title I've heard today

[Alphastealer 42]

^{I have a fair amount of 40K models for Marines, Tau and Tyranids. None have been used in the last 2 years.}

 

^{My question is; do you think now is the right time to sell? Or should I hold onto them until they become classics?}

 

^{Why did GW have to screw the pooch so badly. 40k was a lovely game in the version 3-4 era. As soon as they added flyers it went south, then forgeworld, then allies and unbound.}

 

^{I feel for the fantasy guys. I made a small investment into a lizardmen army, that is now just taking up shelf space.}

 

^{I got into warmachine after 40k and enjoyed it. The only downside there is the constant learning that is required, as there are some nasty combos that can wreck your game if you do not know about them.}

 

^{X-Wing was a more recent purchase, but there again there is a constant rebalancing of knowledge required and the good cards are cleverly spread over all the expansions, so you need to get 1-2 of every ship in production to have the full set of cards.}

 

^{I have been considering Imperial Assault, as I love RPG and skirmish level games, but it looks like you need to buy a lot of expansions.}

 

^{My poor wallet. It has forgotten what it feels like to hold currency.}

[DariusAPB 6,925]

40K Flyers were always around (dons hipster glasses) I had them in 2nd and third before they went mainstream.

They were in 1st as well, this said third and 4th was when Forgeworld REALLY kicked off. Was a lot cheaper back then of course.

Balance wasn't a big deal, but then arguably the tournament scene wasn't as huge.

 

It's hard to see where games workshop has really messed up. I think balance is a large large part of it, price is a large large part of it. The price increases have gotten to the point where - as discussed in another thread, it's gone beyond the worth it Mark.

 

I just bought into Imperial Assault, literally less than a month ago.

 

Here's the thing. General Weiss is a $15 buck ($CAN) expansion if you know where to shop You guys stateside will find this cheaper.

 

He's basically a dude in a tricked out ATST, about as much plastic as a Space Marine dreadnought, though admittedly a little less detail. He also contains the usual FFG Cards, paper skirmish map etc.

 

How much would the same dreadnought cost? $40, $50?

 

Now I'll stop the reply of "but customization" Yeah. You are right.  lots of different dread arms, compared to Weiss being "Regular ATST" and "What the **** is this ATST".

 

But. Here's where GW can get clever.

 

Make it's sprues cheaper, more basic again. Sell the upgrades and special **** online or as addon kits. Make the Stores BACK into gaming stores. Complete with sunday noob gaming, maybe a killteam day, maybe once a month apocalypse weekend.

 

Bring back the specialist games, worst thing GW has done in recent memory was getting rid of those. (Yes, worst, stop crying Warhammer Fantasy Fans - inquisitor, Mordheim, BFG, the chance of customized space hulk and Necromunda are collectively EASILY a bigger loss).

 

GW has done good things recently. Entire range in plastic! Have you EVER tried to customize a metal model? It's a pain! Kitbashing has never been easier. This comes with the downside that lots of the old school / old cool models are gone / gold dust priced brittle as roast **** finecrap.

 

Also. Simplify the game: Allies was good on paper but... with all the special rules too **** balance broken

Killteam, 1st and 2nd worked because they were squad/platoon level games.

Later games... it grinds too much. Let's go back to stats. Back to minimalistic special rules and go from there. Overhaul the **** thing. Bring it into the 2010s.

 

So yeah.. In Sum. IA is good, FFG better, GW needs to turn it's shi(p)t around. Stuff we all already know.

Edited October 13, 2015 by DariusAPB

[VanorDM 11,599]

I think what really kills 40k for me, is that GW has basically admitted they can't write a balanced rule set, so rather than getting a team in that can, they are making the BS claim that 'well we've always just been a model company not a game company'

Between 40k and WFB there's been 15 different editions published. A model company does not produce 15 different editions of rules for 2 games.

I think GW's inability to make decent rules along with the industry moving towards more of a squad based scale vs the company or larger size that 40k likes is the big problem.

Which is in a way funny since 40k started off as a small scale game. It was when GW decided that they wanted larger games with more models because that meant more money that things started going downhill.

If I didn't already play X-Wing, Armada, IA, SW LCG, along with my other hobbies I'd really consider kill team. But right now I think I'd have trouble finding time to play that.

[John Tenzer 301]

If you consider playing killteam just go with Infinity instead. It is a much more balanced, thought out and supported game than Killteam isAnd ever will be...!

[zathras23 936]

At my FLGS (Game Kastle in Santa Clara CA.) Thursdays are both X-Wing and 40k night. When X-Wing first came out in 2012, the tables in the back of the store would have 6-8 40k games going on at the same time. Fast forward to 2015? You're lucky to see 2 games of 40k being played while 4-5 games of X-Wing and Armada are going on and, when I see this, I just smile with the knowledge GW is on it's last legs.

[DariusAPB 6,925]

If you consider playing killteam just go with Infinity instead. It is a much more balanced, thought out and supported game than Killteam isAnd ever will be...!

 

I like infinity, but i'll happily play both games.

 

I like 40k for the aesthetic, infinity for the rules (but hate the aesthetic).

 

I can't smile that GW is on it's last legs, in fact I could very almost weep.

Edited October 13, 2015 by DariusAPB

[John Tenzer 301]

Why's that?

Their development over the last decade has proven that they themselves don't shed a tear for you...!

Edited October 13, 2015 by John Tenzer

[DariusAPB 6,925]

Fairly sure i've covered it in this thread, but to sum:

 

40K is a hobby that I got into a long time ago, where my late mother bought me a painted LOTD squad from a car boot. After me falling in love with the aesthetic I quickly started to buy paint and convert my own, meeting likewise individuals over the hobby with which I am still fast friends with.

 

Through 40K i've had some epic battles, rough fights, glorious victories, epic last stands. Even my RPG name Zechs Darius comes from when I first made a space marine captain.

 

I've played the videogames, love the models - especially forgeworld, and still enjoy playing oldhammer.

 

Even newish rules such as the forgeworld Raptors rules I really enjoy, I do miss the age where custom house rules appeared in each months white dwarf.

 

I make a lot of analogies when I post, I know this. It's a terrible habit you all have to put up with.

 

So here's this. In the UK there is a small town, Southam. I worked there bout a decade, went to school there, lived there for a couple years.

 

I've been slowly watching this once thriving market town die literally all my life. Old family stores close etc, every year a little bit of the towns soul dies.

 

I've been watching that happen to GW for a long time now. Specialist games was the most noticeable blow in recent years, white dwarf losing all semblance of use another... removing "classic" models is never good.

 

I'll shed a tear when it goes under cause I remember mordheim nights at the local GW - some 12 people around one big ass table.

I'll be genuinely upset because i remember pre-apocalypse apocalypse games, where a load of us just brought whatever and did objectives.

 

I'll remember the sense of wonder and curiosity about the plotlines, the warp, the deeper mysteries of chaos and the eldar.

 

I'll be sentimental over near 20 years collecting of models.

 

So yeah. GW may have turned to ****. But some of us can remember it didn't start as ****.

[Gadge 4,294]

As i've said before you can put the whole problem down to moving to a shareheld company in the early 90s.

 

They need to not just make *profit* but consistently make *more profit* to keep the shareholders happy.

 

Thats why stuff costs more and you see more of the 'high selling' stuff like endless marines and chaos.

 

I think i mentioned on this thread, in the 80s GW licenced or made about 80 different games, they made obscure minis that didnt sell well but were fun because all they had to do was make enough to pay wages and licences

 

in the 90s the product diversity drops to about 30 different games and licences and in the 2000s it was less than 10.

 

Because why make 'imperial townspeople' for the RPG market that might sell 100 blisters total when you can make 'ultra chaos mega death blaster terminators' that will sell 100 blisters a week.

 

GW started off making things because they were cool and they were their own customers.  Now they make things that sell to keep people who dont actually play the games 'portfolios' happy.

 

And sell your models now.   Plastics/resins rarely become 'classics'.

 

I collect 80s and to a degree 90s citadel and plastics (other than early landraiders) just dont appreciate in value.  Part of it is because they are multipart and most people want to make them up their own way, the other thing is they have no 'range collectability' as once you have one sprue you potentially have every variant whereas citadel collectors like to get 'every one of the 1987 night horrors range' or 'the first 40k releases range'

 

Sell them now while people can still use them in their armies.  Dont wait for GW to retcon your plastics into unusable stuff.

[Gadge 4,294]

I think what really kills 40k for me, is that GW has basically admitted they can't write a balanced rule set, so rather than getting a team in that can, they are making the BS claim that 'well we've always just been a model company not a game company'

Between 40k and WFB there's been 15 different editions published. A model company does not produce 15 different editions of rules for 2 games.

 

 

 

Actually that was deliberate policy in UK/Group studio for years, probably still is.

 

Core games were supposed to get a rewrite roughly every five years and specialist games (when we had them) would run concurrently for around two years, then retired and redone when needed (often to keep copywrite/usage current as with space hulk ).

 

If you consider

 

rogue trader/40k 1st ed was 1987

2nd edition was about 1993

3rd edition around 1998

 

that sort of makes sense

 

 

Like i say, *roughly* every five years, sometimes editions of either core system were either lacking or badly recieved so they got fixed quicker.