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X-Wing Co-Op Campaign is Here!

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I am playing the campaign with my brother and son. About 4 missions so far, all of them Tier I in their story arcs.

I fly a PS 4 Y-Wing with TLT, Adv. Proton Torpedoes, Conner Net, R2, Extra Munitions, Push the Limit.

My brother is flying a PS 3 T-65 X-Wing with BB-8, Engine Upgrade, Push the Limit, Plasma Torpedoes, planning to upgrade to T-70.

My son is flying a PS 3 T-65 X-Wing with R2, Shield Upgrade, Push the Limit, and planning to upgrade to T-70.

 

I am sitting comfortably on a pile of 25 XP that I don't know how to spend since I have all my PS4 slots full and trying to delay the PS increase, while they struggle to get enough XP to upgrade their ships.

We are seeing that I have much easier time to get XP every single round, because I can shoot with the turret. Even when I don't do the killing blow, the damage-XP-per-round is enough to make me earn around 10XP per mission, while they barely reach 5XP each.

In the last mission, I was lucky enough to land the killing blow on the Elite Interceptor in "Rescue Rebel Operatives", that if I am not mistaken, earned me 1 for the damage that round, 1 for the kill, 1 for not being a T/F, 1 for being elite, plus 3 for the mission bonus objective. That was 7 points in one shot, that is more than what my brother and son got in the whole mission. I also did the most Protect actions on the Operatives' HWK, so that gave me 2 more XP. Add to that the 1 damage XP per round of successful turret shooting, that probably accounted for 4-5 more XP.

Meanwhile, my brother managed to land 3 attacks and one kill on TIE fighters, plus the 3XP from the defeat of the Elite, amounted to 7XP, but he was blown up by the elite and lost his two most expensive upgrades: Engine upgrade and Plasma Torpedoes (7 points total), netting him a grand total of 0 XP.

 

All in all, we are having a blast. But I am considering that the XP perhaps should be more balanced, or shared among the squad members. Any suggestions?

Simple, Replace push the limit with one of the teamwork based pilot abilities. Help them to do damage and get the xp.

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It's not that simple. By replacing Push the Limit with something like... (what there is at PS 4 that I can use to buff them besides Squad Leader?) something else, I reduce my repositioning ability and/or damage output. When there are 7 TIE Fighters and 1 elite TIE Interceptor on the table it's not that easy for two PS 4 X-wings to survive that and make a difference, even when their fellow Y-wing somehow buffs them.

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They are already PS 3 and most TIEs are PS 1. I don't see how buffing their PS to 12 during the combat phase makes any difference. If anything, I try to attack first to the same targets than they do, so that I can strip the tokens away and then they can deal the final hit. It helps, but it isn't that effective.

It's really tricky. In standard play you don't care which of your ships kills the enemies. It's all the same. However in this coop mode it does matter a lot. Maybe we need to approach the game in a different mindset.

Maybe it's not that important to win the missions, but to earn as much XP as possible, then flee and replay them later for more XP farming.

If sounds like cheating the system, but I am not sure if that would anyway the cleverest approach.

Edited by Azrapse

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Are their X-wings using Integrated Astros by the way?

Yes. We include all the 0 upgrades as built-in. Sadly that extra "hull point" doesn't seem to do much against a pursuing range 1 PS 4 interceptor with Outmaneuver, focus, evade and autothrusters.

Perhaps he should drop BB-8 until later, and get instead shield-regenerating droids like R2-D2.

Edited by Azrapse

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The campaign was built before TLT was a thing, the AI can't mitigate TLT in the same way players can, and the designers have their eye on TLT already because it seems to be pushing the limits on balance somewhat. If you wanted to keep the S3 Y-wing, swapping the TLT out for a Blaster or Ion'd probably do the trick to even things out. Given your stack of XP you're in an excellent position to switch ship though, and B-wing's not necessarily going to be worse. It'll just have a firing arc.

Edited by Blue Five

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All in all, we are having a blast. But I am considering that the XP perhaps should be more balanced, or shared among the squad members. Any suggestions?

 

The few times we ran into giant XP disparities, we just went ahead and tallied it up, then split it (mostly) evenly amongst the players. We figured it is a game, and we're only really competing with ourselves or the AI. :)

 

1) Yep, appears to be a mistake in the text on p68. This mission should be 6 asteroids only.

 

2) There isn't currently a shuttle that comes with a cannon. The AI Statcard for the Lambda Shuttle mentions cannons as a way for me to leave that design space open:

  • If I have a scenario in the future that features a Lambda equipped with a cannon, the AI statcard works.
  • If I change or add Imperial Pilot cards in the future that include an equipped cannon, the AI statcard works.
  • If people want to use the AI outside the campaign and play with cannon-equipped shuttles, the AI statcard works.

I think I'll add this to the FAQ.

 

Also, thanks a ton again, haha... everything has been awesome. **** though, this does make the space whale much less terrifying. :) We were generally afraid of the 4 dice all day every day, and went through a lot of effort to stay behind those guys. I can't really think of any different way to phrase it while keeping it as concise as you have - something like 'if equipped' would bump the amount of text by 50% on that card. :\

 

I do agree on the droids comment, too - BB-8 in particular has been a party with the X-Wing + PTL + Engine Upgrade. The action economy is insane on that thing! It also makes Advanced Proton Torpedoes kind of useful.

 

I really can't imagine how insane it would be to have access to the T-70 X-Wing or the E-Wing with their more flexible dials and native actions. I see what you were worried about before in that they're just plain... better than the X by itself.

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Quick question regarding the HWKs - do they come automatically with the Moldy Crow? I don't see an upgrade slot on their sheet, and it would certainly help with the cost disparity between them and the Y-wings.

 

Z95s are... interesting. I'd love to see ways to make 'em useful, but the price discrepancy is just so big. Handing out XP just makes them the preferred sidegrade and/or the inevitable squad leader.

 

Perhaps I'd mind less if there were a couple missions where you got them as support? Or maybe they come with a free missile upgrade and/or illicit upgrade (Putting them as more attractive reach to Awings and HWKs, respectively), for pilots that want to focus on talents to support or zoom... but even then, that 2-attack is going to make it hard to keep the kills flowing. Maybe that's the point, though...

 

... wait, do z95s come standard with hyperdrives? (I know some were 'modified' to include them, but it's still a pertinent question.) Perhaps they're not present by standard because they don't match the Rebels jump-in-jump-out modus operandi; thus they'd only be present as mission-specific NPC ships. :)

 

in v0.7 the HWK statcard has a title slot for Moldy Crow, but you'd have to buy it for the usual 3XP.

 

If I include the Z-95 at a later date, I see it as more of an alternate starting ship if your gameplan is to go straight to A-wing once you hit PS4 (and you could start with some extra XP to make that easier).

 

I am playing the campaign with my brother and son. About 4 missions so far, all of them Tier I in their story arcs.

I fly a PS 4 Y-Wing with TLT, Adv. Proton Torpedoes, Conner Net, R2, Extra Munitions, Push the Limit.

My brother is flying a PS 3 T-65 X-Wing with BB-8, Engine Upgrade, Push the Limit, Plasma Torpedoes, planning to upgrade to T-70.

My son is flying a PS 3 T-65 X-Wing with R2, Shield Upgrade, Push the Limit, and planning to upgrade to T-70.

 

I am sitting comfortably on a pile of 25 XP that I don't know how to spend since I have all my PS4 slots full and trying to delay the PS increase, while they struggle to get enough XP to upgrade their ships.

We are seeing that I have much easier time to get XP every single round, because I can shoot with the turret. Even when I don't do the killing blow, the damage-XP-per-round is enough to make me earn around 10XP per mission, while they barely reach 5XP each.

In the last mission, I was lucky enough to land the killing blow on the Elite Interceptor in "Rescue Rebel Operatives", that if I am not mistaken, earned me 1 for the damage that round, 1 for the kill, 1 for not being a T/F, 1 for being elite, plus 3 for the mission bonus objective. That was 7 points in one shot, that is more than what my brother and son got in the whole mission. I also did the most Protect actions on the Operatives' HWK, so that gave me 2 more XP. Add to that the 1 damage XP per round of successful turret shooting, that probably accounted for 4-5 more XP.

Meanwhile, my brother managed to land 3 attacks and one kill on TIE fighters, plus the 3XP from the defeat of the Elite, amounted to 7XP, but he was blown up by the elite and lost his two most expensive upgrades: Engine upgrade and Plasma Torpedoes (7 points total), netting him a grand total of 0 XP.

 

All in all, we are having a blast. But I am considering that the XP perhaps should be more balanced, or shared among the squad members. Any suggestions?

 

I am a little surprised you have earned double the XP of the other players, when the ship loadouts all look pretty decent. Are they dropping shots by maneuvering poorly, or letting you pick up the kills? As soon as they get some more possible actions (built-in boost with the T-70 should help), it seems like your squad leader Y could be doing more to help them out. Even if you upgrade to PS5 you could get Etahn Abaht to help them pour on the critical hits, or Roark to give them PS12 shots. Either of those things will offset the occasional extra TIE Fighter or additional ability on Elite enemies.

Also, your squad has probably yet to encounter anything horrifying, since you've only done the part-1 missions. A lot can happen to your XP lead with one bad eject roll or failed mission ;)

I'd be interested to hear an update from your squad after a few more missions.

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All in all, we are having a blast. But I am considering that the XP perhaps should be more balanced, or shared among the squad members. Any suggestions?

 

The few times we ran into giant XP disparities, we just went ahead and tallied it up, then split it (mostly) evenly amongst the players. We figured it is a game, and we're only really competing with ourselves or the AI. :)

 

1) Yep, appears to be a mistake in the text on p68. This mission should be 6 asteroids only.

 

2) There isn't currently a shuttle that comes with a cannon. The AI Statcard for the Lambda Shuttle mentions cannons as a way for me to leave that design space open:

  • If I have a scenario in the future that features a Lambda equipped with a cannon, the AI statcard works.
  • If I change or add Imperial Pilot cards in the future that include an equipped cannon, the AI statcard works.
  • If people want to use the AI outside the campaign and play with cannon-equipped shuttles, the AI statcard works.

I think I'll add this to the FAQ.

 

Also, thanks a ton again, haha... everything has been awesome. **** though, this does make the space whale much less terrifying. :) We were generally afraid of the 4 dice all day every day, and went through a lot of effort to stay behind those guys. I can't really think of any different way to phrase it while keeping it as concise as you have - something like 'if equipped' would bump the amount of text by 50% on that card. :\

 

I do agree on the droids comment, too - BB-8 in particular has been a party with the X-Wing + PTL + Engine Upgrade. The action economy is insane on that thing! It also makes Advanced Proton Torpedoes kind of useful.

 

I really can't imagine how insane it would be to have access to the T-70 X-Wing or the E-Wing with their more flexible dials and native actions. I see what you were worried about before in that they're just plain... better than the X by itself.

 

 

The funny thing is that Advanced Proton Torpedoes have a habit of not even being that good in our games. The last mission I flew (Disable Sensor Net), we encountered two TIE Interceptors with Stealth Devices on patrol. We closed to range 1 and pumped an APT into each one (which had a focus + evade stack). In both cases we only managed to deal did 1 damage total, thanks to hot AI defense dice. :(

I think the T-70 will be OK for the campaign as it compares better to the B-wing point-for-point (you can tell it was designed using the slightly undercosted B-wing as a benchmark), but the E-wing is definitely overpowered once you load it out.

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I'm surprised you're finding R2-D2 and R5-P9 that powerful - my group found those droids were often not worth it compared to other astromech choices such as R2 Astro + Push the Limit, or R7-T1 (who needs to regenerate shields so much when you can just kill that TIE in the first place?). Now we've also got BB-8 from the new core set as a pretty viable option, so I think it's fair so say there's a lot of competition for the astromech droid slot.

 

As for adding new cards, it's something I've deliberately avoided. My golden rule is to change as little as possible from the standard game, which makes the campaign easier to learn and play. Some of those cards do look neat though, and I'm sure you could figure out a way to integrate them into your own games.

 

After playing another mission, it was definitely circumstantial. It was the escort mission with the HWK-290. The TIE Fighters got a really strong start and stripped the Shields and a hull point from it in the first round. By the time we got close enough to protect it, we were drawing shots away from it by jousting with the TIEs at point blank. The only thing that saved us was being able to regen a couple of shields while pulling shots away from the HWK.

 

On an unrelated note, would you be willing to share the font file you use for the fighter symbols? I want to try to create a string of missions based on the X-Wing pc game. I'm not a great hand with photo shop, but I would love to be able to make that table you put at the beginning of each mission.

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I am a little surprised you have earned double the XP of the other players, when the ship loadouts all look pretty decent. Are they dropping shots by maneuvering poorly, or letting you pick up the kills? As soon as they get some more possible actions (built-in boost with the T-70 should help), it seems like your squad leader Y could be doing more to help them out. Even if you upgrade to PS5 you could get Etahn Abaht to help them pour on the critical hits, or Roark to give them PS12 shots. Either of those things will offset the occasional extra TIE Fighter or additional ability on Elite enemies.

Also, your squad has probably yet to encounter anything horrifying, since you've only done the part-1 missions. A lot can happen to your XP lead with one bad eject roll or failed mission ;)

I'd be interested to hear an update from your squad after a few more missions.

 

 

They usually had to go close range to land any hits on the TIEs. Most of the time, the TIE Fighters get 2 or 3 modified evades in all their defenses, so the X-Wing can land between 0 and 1 hits, average, even when fully modified shots. Add to that, they need to maneuver and reposition, so not all the time they have a shot, and not every time they have a shot it is on the same target.

As a contrast, on my Y-Wing, I tried to keep distances with the enemy to avoid it getting into my range 1 hole. That had the effect of letting me shoot at least once every round, and most of the time at least land 1 hit (scoring 1 XP); and also, it kept me out of range for using my Squad Leader trait.

All in all, I was getting almost consistent XP from hits every round, while they weren't.

Also, when they attacked and destroyed TIE Fighters, their X-Wings had kind of streaky damage output, either dealing no damage at all, or killing the TIE Fighter in a single blow. So they scored most of the time only 2 XP per TIE Fighter.

However, my TLT killed slower but consistently. I was usually dealing 1 damage per round to every TIE Fighter that I focused fire on, so I took 3 rounds to kill anything, but that gave me 4XP total (3 for the 3 rounds of damage, and 1 extra for the kill).

 

I think the XP awarding system can be a little bit exploited (even unintentionally) by this. Slowly killing a ship yields more XP than killing it in a single blow. If you have enough time (rounds left) you can farm something like a lambda shuttle, and instead of blowing it up with a couple of Adv. Proton Torpedoes in two rounds (that would give you 2XP for the damage + 2 XP for the kill), you can rather slowly scratch hitpoints off it with the TLT or Conner Nets over 5 or 6 rounds and earn much more XP.

 

This was creating a mood of unfairness, so I have finally given in and "upgraded" to a B-Wing. I cannot make any use of my R2, TLT, Conner Net, etc that I had on my Y-Wing, but I was able to equip it kind of okay with the pile of XP I had.

So now I fly a PS 4 B-Wing with Advanced Sensors, Engine Upgrade, Adv. Proton Torpedoes, Kyle Katarn as a crew, Push the Limit, and Heavy Laser Cannon.

It allows me kind of nice action economy if I start with an advanced sensors' Barrel Roll, then Push The limit, Target Lock/Boost, then I perform a green maneuver, removing the stress and Kyle Katarn gives me a focus.

Still, the B-Wing dial is much worse than the Y-Wing's with R2, and I need to get my shots in arc, so I am attacking much less often, and if I have to boost or barrel roll for repositioning, I cannot modify my single attack, so I hit much less often.

 

We have started the Minefields story arc and we did yesterday the first mission. I am no longer getting tons of XP as I was doing with the Y-Wing. I think I got around 5 XP, while my brother got 7 XP and my son got 4 XP.

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On an unrelated note, would you be willing to share the font file you use for the fighter symbols? I want to try to create a string of missions based on the X-Wing pc game. I'm not a great hand with photo shop, but I would love to be able to make that table you put at the beginning of each mission.

 

The font is available here (I made some contributions to it): https://github.com/geordanr/xwing-miniatures-font

 

 

I am a little surprised you have earned double the XP of the other players, when the ship loadouts all look pretty decent. Are they dropping shots by maneuvering poorly, or letting you pick up the kills? As soon as they get some more possible actions (built-in boost with the T-70 should help), it seems like your squad leader Y could be doing more to help them out. Even if you upgrade to PS5 you could get Etahn Abaht to help them pour on the critical hits, or Roark to give them PS12 shots. Either of those things will offset the occasional extra TIE Fighter or additional ability on Elite enemies.

Also, your squad has probably yet to encounter anything horrifying, since you've only done the part-1 missions. A lot can happen to your XP lead with one bad eject roll or failed mission ;)

I'd be interested to hear an update from your squad after a few more missions.

 

 

They usually had to go close range to land any hits on the TIEs. Most of the time, the TIE Fighters get 2 or 3 modified evades in all their defenses, so the X-Wing can land between 0 and 1 hits, average, even when fully modified shots. Add to that, they need to maneuver and reposition, so not all the time they have a shot, and not every time they have a shot it is on the same target.

As a contrast, on my Y-Wing, I tried to keep distances with the enemy to avoid it getting into my range 1 hole. That had the effect of letting me shoot at least once every round, and most of the time at least land 1 hit (scoring 1 XP); and also, it kept me out of range for using my Squad Leader trait.

All in all, I was getting almost consistent XP from hits every round, while they weren't.

Also, when they attacked and destroyed TIE Fighters, their X-Wings had kind of streaky damage output, either dealing no damage at all, or killing the TIE Fighter in a single blow. So they scored most of the time only 2 XP per TIE Fighter.

However, my TLT killed slower but consistently. I was usually dealing 1 damage per round to every TIE Fighter that I focused fire on, so I took 3 rounds to kill anything, but that gave me 4XP total (3 for the 3 rounds of damage, and 1 extra for the kill).

 

I think the XP awarding system can be a little bit exploited (even unintentionally) by this. Slowly killing a ship yields more XP than killing it in a single blow. If you have enough time (rounds left) you can farm something like a lambda shuttle, and instead of blowing it up with a couple of Adv. Proton Torpedoes in two rounds (that would give you 2XP for the damage + 2 XP for the kill), you can rather slowly scratch hitpoints off it with the TLT or Conner Nets over 5 or 6 rounds and earn much more XP.

 

This was creating a mood of unfairness, so I have finally given in and "upgraded" to a B-Wing. I cannot make any use of my R2, TLT, Conner Net, etc that I had on my Y-Wing, but I was able to equip it kind of okay with the pile of XP I had.

So now I fly a PS 4 B-Wing with Advanced Sensors, Engine Upgrade, Adv. Proton Torpedoes, Kyle Katarn as a crew, Push the Limit, and Heavy Laser Cannon.

It allows me kind of nice action economy if I start with an advanced sensors' Barrel Roll, then Push The limit, Target Lock/Boost, then I perform a green maneuver, removing the stress and Kyle Katarn gives me a focus.

Still, the B-Wing dial is much worse than the Y-Wing's with R2, and I need to get my shots in arc, so I am attacking much less often, and if I have to boost or barrel roll for repositioning, I cannot modify my single attack, so I hit much less often.

 

We have started the Minefields story arc and we did yesterday the first mission. I am no longer getting tons of XP as I was doing with the Y-Wing. I think I got around 5 XP, while my brother got 7 XP and my son got 4 XP.

 

 

Seems like TLT breaks the XP system, agreed. I'm not overly surprised as it didn't exist when most of the campaign was written, and it is very consistent damage over time. I'm going to think about some ways of reigning it in - perhaps there's an elegant way of doing so.

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We'be just started the campaign. We are also allowing players to take Scum pilots if they want, replacing the starting X-Wing with the Kihraxz and Rebel pilot abilities with the Scum abilities. Played the first game and had a blast. I went with an X-Wing with R2-D2 and scored a kill. This gave me enough xp to get a Shield Upgrade for the next game. I was surprised at how well the AI flew, better than some live opponents I've faced. Really looking forward to playing more games with this system.

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TLT has not negitivly impacted our game. We have only played 3 missions (starter, hwk, sensor mine field). Our group is 7 players using the 6 player + hard mode to adjust for the extra player.

Iirc our squad is:

4 xwings

R2d2, ion torp

R3a2, Vrill, hull

Lightning reflexes + ? Highest PS

I don't recall

3 Ys

Seismics and autoblaster turret

Warthog

TLT

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Yah, I'm finding the consistent damage of the TLT is a real XP magnet given how XP scoring works. Just hitting vs how much damage you put down is a big part of that. I may one shot a TIE in my xwing and get 2xp. The TLT is milking that same TIE for 3-4 xp every time and rarely has turn where it doesn't have a shot. TIE don't exploit the donut hole well. We're also having issues with the lower PS pilots falling behind as their targets are often getting cleaned off before they shoot.

 

Some thoughts-

XP per X damage in a turn. Makes hitting with 4 die worthwhile. (Maybe every 2?) That would limit TLTs to 1 xp, but other ships could score 2-3xp.

 

The kill bonus can get kinda insane. Damage xp and 1xp for a kill is fine, but I'd prefer to see other bonuses as squad bonuses. Kill a non-tie, get 2 party xp. Elite? Get another 4xp (or number of players). Maybe add a bonus for finishing squadrons to party XP. At the end of the mission you split the XP, lowest PS players get remainders. It would help alot with some players feeling they got screwed out of kills all the time as there would be much more trickle down XP.

 

 

On another note- EPT cost x2 the card cost. EPT from another pilot don't seem to have this multiplier. Is that right?

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I believe pilot skills from named pilots are just the flat cost since you need to be at least their PS.

Milking xp does not seem to be an issue in our games. We have been geting overwhelmed and having close missions.

Edited by GeneticDrift

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