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X-Wing Co-Op Campaign is Here!

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JayDestroyaC are you saying that your Ywing players need that much more exp given to them??? That you have to give them extra exp if they take bombs.

Because that is what your logic is. Ive never found the Ywing in HOTAC to be lacking and have fully played the Ywing through several campaigns now.

In the most recent campaign. run through, I had more than 50% more exp on my fighter than the net closest person in the total exp rankings by the end of the campaign.

And yes again bombs give you a second chance to make sure you get the damage ep point, and also gives you a chance in a Ywing to fire your turret to pick off a damaged fighter from your bomb.

I have now even seen people take Sabine Crew on a B-wing just to take a bomb since it plus kturnng with the bwing for firing its regular guns, or even just using out-of arc torps thaks to Nera, to make sure a bomb injured fighter is dead is that powerful.

Also, Vaevictus has spelled it out for you how bombs are very good in HOTAC and how Ywings are also very good, I jus dont see how your group is failing to use bombs as well as almost every other HOTAC group Ive seen or heard about.

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Looks cool ... Mind if someone took a look at the mechanics to re-tool them for Scum-AI?

For scum I would add in a target priority for damage ships (picking off weak ones) and a coward mechanic making them run for the nearest table edge the moment they took a damage card (or lose all shield tokens for 2 hull ships like scyk or Headhunter). As for a Scum ace give them a bounty and make them a little more brave (ignoring the coward rule as long as the bounty is on the table until down to 2 hits left).

 

Also back to the other list. Some future proofing can be done by placing in a blank template for future ships unlocking them at Pilot Skill 5. That way the Rebels can add Stolen TIE Fighter to their list.

Edited by Marinealver

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The bomb tweak seems fairer to bombers. In the current rules a well placed bomb might damage 4 or more ships but the player would only receive 1 XP without destroying a ship. So we give the 1XP plus an AP for each ship damaged. But we also remove an AP for each friendly ship caught in the blast!

To clarify, we don't award APs for enemy ships that get destroyed since the kill awards 1 or more XP anyway. So if a player drops a bomb that damages 4 enemy tie fighters and destroying 1, they would get 1XP for doing damage, plus 1XP for the kill, plus 1XP for 3 assists (damaging 3 ships)

You give extra XP to bomb users? Wow, I've found bombs to be great in the game, especially proton bombs dealing out crits.
Yeah, i don't think I've ever encountered a situation where we thought "Wow, that Y-Wing pilot isn't getting enough XP. Let's give him way more, despite the fact that he's getting a second opportunity to get XP in a turn when everyone else only gets one." Bombs are super easy to use in HotAC as it is, since the TIEs won't behave predictively. Giving bonus XP to bombs seems both exploitative, and unnecessary. Y-Wings aren't at some kind of disadvantage in the game where their ordnance should have an offset. That example literally gives that Y-Wing 4-5 XP in a single attack (potentially more if he manages to destroy an elite or large craft). The most a direct-fire attacking ship like an A-Wing or X-Wing could ever gain is 4. The Y-Wing then has a chance to further gain XP by finishing off one of the wounded ships with its turret attack. I don't think this is a good house rule. In terms of odds, the likelihood of a fighter recouping the value of their Torpedoes/Missiles in a single attack is fairly low, and those attacks require a to-hit roll, and most of them require some kind of combination of action-usage. The bomb is just dropped, then the ship continues on its normal turn. More mathematically, Proton Torpedoes cost 4 points. The only way to recoup 4 points in a single hit is to destroy an Elite Large Base craft with it. Elite Large craft represent an extremely small percentage of the ships in the game. The average XP gained from destroying a craft with Torpedoes is going to be 2-3 points. However, that's assuming you destroy your target. With a Focus at Range 2, even if shooting at a 3 AGI TIE with no tokens, the average damage dealt is only 2. With an Evade token it is 1. Which means the typical Proton Torpedo shot isn't going to gain any more than 1 XP under most circumstances.You will, on average, have to fire Proton Torpedoes 3-4 times to recoup 5 XP. The example of dropping a bomb on 4 TIES and getting 5XP is five times what a player will typically receive from firing their Proton Torpedoes.

I think you guys totally misread my post. Doing splash damage with bombs earns AP not VP, and using 3AP = 1 VP. So damaging a cluster of 4 healthy ties will only earn 1.3VP. And if they do manage to destroy one or more ships then they don't get any AP for those. However from what we've seen in the game it's extremely unlikely to ever kill more than 1 ship since by the time a squad has taken enough damage to get them down to 1 hull each they have long since broken formation and are much less likely to wind up in a cluster for maximum bomb damage spread.

Seriously, we are talking a maximum of 3 extra VP per game that they wouldn't get under the default rules, and that's assuming 2 well placed bomb drops each game hitting at least 4 targets.

And no, I don't think Y-Wings need any more help getting XP, but with the Sabine crew they are not the only ship which can take bombs.

It may also help for context that we are just casual X-wing players so we don't have quite the level of skill you competitive tournament players have. Also since we are sharing XP now there is not so much jealousy for the BTL Y-Wing!

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As for Assault Missiles it happens more than you'd think, especially if two or 3 people take Assault Missiles and stick together trading off shots at the groups of fighters...instantly eliminating a group of ties, or doing serious damage.

Now it also helps if you count all crits done to regular TIE fighters only, as 2 damage...the proton bomb becomes well worth it over any other bomb. Especially since on the way into droppng a bomb (the prior turn) you have likely shot at least one of them.

Wait, a couple of things I need to parse out here. How are you getting multiple people with missiles? Are a bunch of you running A-Wings?

Also, I don't think you should be awarding 2 hits for a crit, you draw a crit damage card as usual. The 2 damage crit rule only applies to special terrain where drawing crit damage makes no sense without a custom crit deck.

Edited by whittaker007

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Wait, a couple of things I need to parse out here. How are you getting multiple people with missiles? Are a bunch of you running A-Wings?

Also, I don't think you should be awarding 2 hits for a crit, you draw a crit damage card as usual. The 2 damage crit rule only applies to special terrain where drawing crit damage makes no sense without a custom crit deck.

Well yes that would mean several people were in Awings.

And we only award 2 damage instead of a crit to regular TIES, found that it greatly speeds up game play. For anything other than regular TIE/LNs we use crit cards. It sees much less cltter on the board, and side areas.

And also know other groups have doen the same, even creating a chart that someone posted a chart that handles what to do to fighters for crits (such as a stress token and 2 damage, etc), though we dont use that in the group I play in.

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As a heads-up, the docking bay has added a HotAC forum to their webpage in the last couple of days. Hopefully it will turn into a good place to consolidate discussions for all use HotAC fans.

 

http://dockingbay416.com/forums/forum/heroes-of-the-aturi-cluster/

 

I'm also looking to assemble a band of rogues for a vassal campaign (based out of the UK for time zone purposes) starting shortly, so if you are keen to get involved drop me a PM.

Edited by asters89

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Just a quick question for you regarding 0pt upgrades

 

as a house rule do you allow them to be taken without a mod slot being used or do you say that IA takes a mod and Chimps takes a mod slot.

 

I'm running an A wing with extra munitions and chimps (and prockets) so IA doesnt help but Chimps does. would be nice to free up a mod slot though :)

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I believe IA is no mod slots on t-65 xwings, and the gchips take a mod slot.

 

Exactly this.   We did dig in the rules and I think we asked the creator.  IA is free with no slot as it's deemed a "fix".  Guidance Chips takes a slot.  

 

Do you get Test Pilot for the A-wing and allow you another EPT at a lower level?

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I believe IA is no mod slots on t-65 xwings, and the gchips take a mod slot.

 

Exactly this.   We did dig in the rules and I think we asked the creator.  IA is free with no slot as it's deemed a "fix".  Guidance Chips takes a slot.  

 

Do you get Test Pilot for the A-wing and allow you another EPT at a lower level?

 

 

The A wing get 5 EPT's, a missile and 4 Mods so Test Pilot built in. i don't think there's anything in there a'la chardaan refit though (to be fair you need the missiles as an A though) and cant really see a way of factoring that particular upgrade in - unless you Forgo the missile slot for a extra mod slot or something.

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Squad Builder for HotAC?

 

Quick question: are any of the current online squad builders capable of being used for pilots with HotAC?  I believe that most are designed to limit what you can put on a ship (and certainly which pilots are used).  Do any have a "free mode" that might let you create something like a HotAC ship?  It would be nice to use a printout of the pilot and the upgrades, rather than the big pile of upgrade cards (and handwritten notes on the pilot upgrades).

 

Just curious.  Love the module!

 

Chris

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Note for IA, if you allow the T70 that ship does NOT get it built in like the t65, so you would have to use the mod slot there.

The only way to allow the t-70 fairly is to allow it at ps6 with two less mod slots for about 6-8xp.

The reason being that the t-70 is just a better t-65 with a boost/shield upgrade (both mod slots in this game), tech slot and slightly better dial with s-loops.

So the two less mod slots will take care of boost and shield upgrade and the free IA sorta takes the place of a free tech slot and you end up paying 6-8xp for the slightly better dial. So in the end the t-65 is slightly more flexible with its mod slots whereas the t-70 is just flat out better in that particular setup.

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Squad Builder for HotAC?

 

Quick question: are any of the current online squad builders capable of being used for pilots with HotAC?  I believe that most are designed to limit what you can put on a ship (and certainly which pilots are used).  Do any have a "free mode" that might let you create something like a HotAC ship?  It would be nice to use a printout of the pilot and the upgrades, rather than the big pile of upgrade cards (and handwritten notes on the pilot upgrades).

 

Just curious.  Love the module!

 

Chris

 

I believe a couple of the squad builders, particularly Aurora Squad Builder IIRC, support creating your own custom ship definitions with whatever upgrade slots you want them to have. You'd have to specifically create a "HotAC X-Wing" template, for example, and then fill it out, but it should work.

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Squad Builder for HotAC?

 

Quick question: are any of the current online squad builders capable of being used for pilots with HotAC?  I believe that most are designed to limit what you can put on a ship (and certainly which pilots are used).  Do any have a "free mode" that might let you create something like a HotAC ship?  It would be nice to use a printout of the pilot and the upgrades, rather than the big pile of upgrade cards (and handwritten notes on the pilot upgrades).

 

Just curious.  Love the module!

 

Chris

 

I believe a couple of the squad builders, particularly Aurora Squad Builder IIRC, support creating your own custom ship definitions with whatever upgrade slots you want them to have. You'd have to specifically create a "HotAC X-Wing" template, for example, and then fill it out, but it should work.

Aurora works like a charm - thank you! You start by creating a custom pilot and giving him plenty of slots for mods and elites. I also created custom upgrade cards for the pilot abilities that I selected as elite upgrades.

Thanks for the tip - and thanks to the creator of Aurora!

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Exactly this.   We did dig in the rules and I think we asked the creator.  IA is free with no slot as it's deemed a "fix".  Guidance Chips takes a slot.  

 

I don't quite understand this distinction of IA as a "fix," and thus being allowed with no slot-cost.

 

Wasn't the standard T-65 X-wing playtested in HotAC without IA, and found to be balanced?  If so, isn't the addition of IA a flat-out power-up, not a "fix"?

 

(Note that I understand that IA is a fix in the competitive game, intended to help out the T-65 (mostly).  My point is that the X-wing as it existed -- needing help and all -- was tested and balanced without IA in HotAC.)

 

That said, the Y-wing is arguably a superior choice in HotAC in terms of XP and possibly raw power, so maybe giving IA free to the T-65 is reasonable in that regard.  I just don't see how it's reasonable just because it's an after-the-fact fix in the competitive game.

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Exactly this.   We did dig in the rules and I think we asked the creator.  IA is free with no slot as it's deemed a "fix".  Guidance Chips takes a slot.  

 

I don't quite understand this distinction of IA as a "fix," and thus being allowed with no slot-cost.

 

Wasn't the standard T-65 X-wing playtested in HotAC without IA, and found to be balanced?  If so, isn't the addition of IA a flat-out power-up, not a "fix"?

 

(Note that I understand that IA is a fix in the competitive game, intended to help out the T-65 (mostly).  My point is that the X-wing as it existed -- needing help and all -- was tested and balanced without IA in HotAC.)

 

That said, the Y-wing is arguably a superior choice in HotAC in terms of XP and possibly raw power, so maybe giving IA free to the T-65 is reasonable in that regard.  I just don't see how it's reasonable just because it's an after-the-fact fix in the competitive game.

 

 

While I get where you are coming from, the designer specifically stated this for the new 0 pts fix cards in his FAQ on the webpage.

 

 

Upgrades are going to be addressed on a case-by-case basis in a new “master upgrade list” PDF that will be easier to keep up to date without editing the core rulebook. Each upgrade’s entry will also describes how it interacts with generating assists in the new format in the v0.8 rules.

 

Integrated Astromech:

comes for free on the T-65 (will be written on the ship card underneath its droid + torpedo slots). On the T-70, if your group plays with it, it’ll be a 0pt modification as usual.

 

Guidance Chips:

0 pts, takes a modification slot

 

Adaptability:

This will have to take an EPT slot, but I don’t think it’s worthwhile in the campaign when the EPT slot has so many more valuable things that can go into it. Maybe I can figure out a way to make it desirable anyway.

 

So we just go by his "official" ruling for v0.8 on the use of the IA and GC cards. I think he mentioned somewhere that the default T-65 is lacking a bit compared to the Y-Wing starter so that's why the "fix" is probably free since it is just for the X-Wing. Guidance Chips is just a flaout upgrade for ordnance so it "costs" a slot.

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How are people finding the ARC-170 in the games of aturi cluster if they have tested it?

 

I just got my arcs delivered 2 days ago, I barely unpacked them. Will definitely bring them once we group up again for the next session, but fairly sure other people will do that before we do, usually is at least a month between HotAC sessions here.

 

EDIT: They are currently in the process of being magnetized :)

Edited by JayDestroyaC

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I think they are fairly balanced with an interesting combo.

The Level 7 ARC-170 build that I am playing now is:

Push the Limit, Hobbie Klivian, and Jake Farrell for EPTs (Have not decided on last one yet). With Targeting Astromech and Kyle Katarn.

That gives me the following options:

Perform Non-Red Maneuver (I should almost never start the turn stressed). Take Focus for my Action and do a Jake Boost or BR, PtL to Target Lock. During Attack, spend Target Lock, Remove Stress with Hobbie, Gain Focus from Kyle, and reposition if needed with Jake (whichever option I did not take prior). Net Gain: 2x Focus, Target Lock, Boost, BR, and No Stress.

or

Perform a Red Maneuver and gain Stress. Gain TL through Astromech, Loose Stress with Hobbie, Gain Focus from Kyle, use Jake to Boost or BR. Take Focus for Action, use Jake again. Net Gain: 2x Focus, Target Lock, Boost, BR, and No Stress.

Now to decide what to do for my last EPT...

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I think they are fairly balanced with an interesting combo.

The Level 7 ARC-170 build that I am playing now is:

Push the Limit, Hobbie Klivian, and Jake Farrell for EPTs (Have not decided on last one yet). With Targeting Astromech and Kyle Katarn.

That gives me the following options:

Perform Non-Red Maneuver (I should almost never start the turn stressed). Take Focus for my Action and do a Jake Boost or BR, PtL to Target Lock. During Attack, spend Target Lock, Remove Stress with Hobbie, Gain Focus from Kyle, and reposition if needed with Jake (whichever option I did not take prior). Net Gain: 2x Focus, Target Lock, Boost, BR, and No Stress.

or

Perform a Red Maneuver and gain Stress. Gain TL through Astromech, Loose Stress with Hobbie, Gain Focus from Kyle, use Jake to Boost or BR. Take Focus for Action, use Jake again. Net Gain: 2x Focus, Target Lock, Boost, BR, and No Stress.

Now to decide what to do for my last EPT...

If you PTL to target lock, Hobbie would remove the stress then and not when you use it, his is when you gain or spend a TL remove a stress.

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