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So, fun question, has anyone legitimately killed the Decimator in the Imperial Entanglement mission? Not run it off the board. Legitimately taken it to 0 hull?

Because I'm starting to think that it's truly just not intended to be killable. 16-22 total hit points, two shots with a 360 degree turret and a free target lock. At PS6 and higher, it's sporting Mara Jade, and will have two Elite pilots entering the board on the same turn. I've flown that mission 3 times and it's always been a case of "stay away from the Decimator".

 

I'm playing with one group that hasn't lost a mission yet. They decided (against my advice, lol) to try to kill the Decimator. I even flew distraction with my Autothruster PTL A-Wing to suck up the Target Lock and Focus tokens and the first shot. Everyone had proton/plasma torpedoes loaded.

It didn't end well. The Elite Bomber and Phantom did some of the work, but I don't think it would have ended well even if they had been positioned less fortuitously or had been less deadly ships (like an Advanced or a Lambda shuttle or something).

 

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The Decimator did fly off the board, but my group doesn't allow AI ships to leave the board and be destroyed unless it was by player action (ion tokens, for example). That last screenshot was just Turn 10, so no reason to reposition it.

 

I would guess you can hit this mission in a sweet spot (PS 5 or less) and maybe pull that kill off. Winning the mission is fairly easy. Killing the Decimator is nearly impossible. I guess you could "game the system" and drop cluster mines and/or conner nets in its path before it gets on the board, but that's basically just "cheating" since its movement and deployment is scripted.

 

Has anybody managed to do it?

 

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My group (4 players) was able to kill it.  B-wing with Keyen, Pred, FCS, APT, EM, and GC two turns in a row.  HLC from long range to trigger the FCS as he closed to range 1, and Keyen the stress away.  There wasn't much left to kill after that (an X-wing with Ethan was also shooting at it).

 

My R5-P9+Biggs+2 Shield upgrades Y-wing was TLT the TIE's and drew fire from the Deci so the B-wing could do his job.

Edited by Salted Diamond

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I killed it once, we used my Y-wing loaded out with Proton Bombs to mess it over through its shields, which gave some really helpful crits. And another person in the group Ion Bombed it slowing it down, while the rest of us shot it.

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So, fun question, has anyone legitimately killed the Decimator in the Imperial Entanglement mission? Not run it off the board. Legitimately taken it to 0 hull?

Yes, and it was trivial.

First of all we had 2 TLT carriers, so that's 4 damage a round essentially guaranteed.

Second, we had someone carrying Plasma Torps so shields were down after 2 attacks.

Third, anyone who didn't have Plasma Torps had either Proton Torps or a Heavy Laser Cannon. Every non-TLT attack against the Decimator was a 4-dice attack, of which you only need 3 to eliminate it once shields are down.

12 hull does not last long as long as you have multiple people shooting at it. The Decimator's ability to shoot at 2 targets means it doesn't focus one down, so you'll live. Gunner is a negligible upgrade when the Decimator is likely to hit, but only pushing 1-2 damage through. And if he does Gunner on the first attack, it means he forgoes his second attack against another target.

Delta squad does not come in on the same vector as the Decimator (in fact you have 66% chance of them being across the board from it) so they can be ignored in favor of shooting down the hulk.

I think the Decimator is the easiest part of that mission. It's much harder to kill the TIE Bombers before they shoot their Ion Pulse Missiles, but R3-A2 helps with that since they can't use their free pre-move action to TL if stressed and they won't shoot the Transport unless they got it TL'd.

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It was never about the Decimator being too tough. If it was all by itself, it would be trivial. There are just so many other ships flying around in that mission too. With all those Cheaterceptors, and then having to bring down the Bombers, are people actually clearing the table fast enough to be able to just focus on the Decimator? It's never been solely about the Decimator's stats. It's the stats (16-20 points) and the time compression (5 turns), mixed with the minefields and the number of Imperial small-base ships. I mean, some of you are describing fighting the Decimator like it's occurring in a vacuum where you just had all the time in the world, plenty of room to maneuver, and no other ships to worry about, lol. With 4+ players and a PS of 6, that meant 3 Interceptors alone (sporting HU/SU or AT or SD), which are time consuming to destroy, as well as the 6 Hull Bombers which have to become the primary target as soon as they hit the board meaning you're no longer able to concetrate to bring down the multi-token Interceptors and Fighters. There's just a lot of damage that needs to be grinded out on that mission, and a lot of return fire coming in wearing everyone down in decidedly non-dodgy Rebel ships. 

 

Sounds like some of you just got really fortunate with where the Imperial reinforcements spawned, or friendly dice if you had that kind of breathing room. Our Bombers came in the corner opposite the deployment area, meaning they were close to the transport and as far away as possible. Then, when they were done, it meant crossing the map again to get to the Decimator, and being chased by two Elites with PS7 and a stack of abilities.

 

Because killing off 2-3 Fighters (since it sounds like most of you had 3-4 players) and 2-3 Interceptors in the first three rounds before the Bombers spawn, and then killing off the 2-3 Bombers in the three rounds before the Decimator spawns, and then killing off the Decimator, while dodging 1-2 Imperial Elite ships? And if you're doing all the damage to the TIEs, it means nobody is killing the minefields, which have to be maneuvered around.  All while dodging fire from a 3-weapon turret primary in Agility 1-2 ships that is going to take 2-3 rounds to kill with focused fire? "Trivial" isn't the word I'd use, lol. 

 

 

Edit: I mean, maybe I'm wrong or I'm underestimating the skill level of your groups and overestimating my own, but statistically, the math is staggeringly against the players with the ships you're claiming to be using, even accounting for player superiority over card AI. If you're running 2 HLC B-Wings and 2 Y-Wings with TLT with an average PS of 6 since somebody is running Keyan (PS7), you will kill one TIE Interceptor per round, if you can all fire at it, expending all tokens and using Predator (since that's basically an auto-take for the Y-Wing). Then you will take 3-4 damage in return from its buddies. If you can't all shoot at the same Interceptor (an easily possible outcome), the squadron is statistically likely to fall just short of dealing fatal damage to it at Range 3, and will take return fire from 3 Interceptors instead of just 2 (1.5 hits vs .75 dodges each). Nobody will shoot on the first turn, so you have 2 turns of concentrated fire which will, statistically, kill 2 out of 3 Interceptors, at the cost of 4-6 damage in return over the course of 2 rounds since both flights will be on a head-on trajectory in order to make this scenario of concentrated fire even possible. And that's before accounting for the flight of three TIE Fighters you're not killing (who, assuming everybody just goes towards at the Interceptors may not be in range to fire until Round 3).

Once the Bombers arrive, assuming you get lucky and they spawn in front of you to where the entire squad can fire on the same target immediately, again, statistically you're only killing one of them the first turn (average squadron damage output 10 vs 12 Hull and 2 AGI), taking two rounds to kill both, and probably getting one of the Fighters or Cheaterceptors additionally on the second round. You're probably also taking an additional 3-4 damage per round. Again, this assuming that every player has a desirable target every round but the TIEs do not.  It's Round 5, and the squad has suffered an expected minimum of 16 damage from the non-Bomber TIEs (out of a capacity for 36-40 for the squad assuming some Shield Upgrades are present) running AGI 1 ships.

 

This is before the Decimator even arrives.

 

With a Target Lock and Focus on the first target, it is dealing out (statistically) 2 damage to that initial target and 1 damage to the second target, adding 3-4 damage to the player ships per turn just by itself. Assuming the squad can focus fire on the Decimator (assuming all being in position to shoot at it on Turn 6), killing it in two turns (maximum squadron damage output per round is 12, average is 10, or 9 at Range 3), that will limit its damage output to just 3, which seems minimal. Of course it doesn't account for the fact that there are still 3-4 Fighters/Interceptors running around, again dealing out their own 3 damage (adjusted to assume not every ship will be in position to shoot, we'll dock them 1 point and round down) every turn against a force completely comprised of 1 AGI ships. So by Turn 7, the squadron has suffered (bottom end estimate to account for player superiority over AI maneuvering) 25 damage. And this is before accounting for the new Elite and 1 TIE Fighter, which we'll assume arrive but cannot contribute on Turn 6.

 

So, literally, assuming everything falls in favor of the players in terms of deployment vectors, with the Bombers being as close as possible and the reinforcements as far as possible, and maximum efficiency of player movement to their desired targets, a 4 player squadron is likely to suffer approximately 65-70% damage attacking the Decimator head on with 4 1AGI ships in this scenario at an average PS of 6. Approximately 45-50% damage by the start of Turn 6 when the Decimator arrives, thus pinning hopes and dreams of attacking an 18 Hull/Shield ship with an average damage output of 19, making the probability killing it in 2 turns essentially a coin flip, with an expected return damage of 3-4 if you do kill it in 2 turns, and 7-8 damage if you don't (increasing the squadron's expected damage received to approximately 75% of its expected capacity). This brings the expected player casualty rate to 2-3 ships (out of 4), and on Turn 8 should leave 2-3 TIE Fighters, 1 TIE Interceptor, and 1 Elite on the board.

The reason the Decimator is hard to kill isn't because of its raw stats, it's because ignoring everything else on the board is so dangerous. Sure, doing 18 damage in 2 turns with a damage output-optimized group is "easy" and can theoretically kill the Decimator before it can fire a second time. The problem is that it relies on the players being in position to immediately engage the Decimator on a dynamic tabletop (unlikely even with good planning), and a damage output-optimized group isn't optimized to avoid the incoming damage output from the Imperials. Keyan's ability is great because it opens up the B-Wing dial. The problem is that it's functionally equivalent to just having a Focus token, and having a stress token during Activation prevents you from repositioning with EU or BR leaving you more vulnerable to enemy fire.

 

Hence my skepticism of killing the Decimator being "trivial". Using that kind of language leads me to believe you're playing something wrong (the Interceptors, maybe?), or the dice love you beyond a reasonable probability, lol.

Edited by VaeVictis

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Any ideas on when HoTAC is being updated again? 1.0 release or am I dreaming?

 

Likely not for the foreseeable future, last I heard the original author is now deep into other projects (that he gets actually paid for, unlike HotAC), so it will have to wait. But feel free to edit on your own and share your improvements with us.

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I should be interviewing the author next week for my podcast.  This is going to be one of the many questions we want to ask.  I know he's got some ideals and some things already hammered out for the next version.  He did get a job at a game company and has been working to develop games that will actually bring him money.  So, I completely understand why he hasn't been able to update it any time soon.  

 

 

I've done about half of the work below, which I feel is necessary for a v0.8 update:

  • splitting the rulebook into separate campaign missions and rulebook documents. It's more expansion friendly going forward
  • rewriting how assists work (including a bunch of layout changes to the rulebook)
  • re-working some of the AI statcards to incorporate logic for bombs, and the updates to the TIE Defender. That's been a fair bit of testing.
  • better AI logic reference for certain orders
  • making balance tweaks to some missions
  • creating a reference PDF of every upgrade with campaign-specific notes. This one has to be continuously updated as FFG releases more stuff, which is why it's more of an FAQ thing meant to live online instead of printed.

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I should be interviewing the author next week for my podcast.  This is going to be one of the many questions we want to ask.  I know he's got some ideals and some things already hammered out for the next version.  He did get a job at a game company and has been working to develop games that will actually bring him money.  So, I completely understand why he hasn't been able to update it any time soon.  

 

 

I've done about half of the work below, which I feel is necessary for a v0.8 update:

  • splitting the rulebook into separate campaign missions and rulebook documents. It's more expansion friendly going forward
  • rewriting how assists work (including a bunch of layout changes to the rulebook)
  • re-working some of the AI statcards to incorporate logic for bombs, and the updates to the TIE Defender. That's been a fair bit of testing.
  • better AI logic reference for certain orders
  • making balance tweaks to some missions
  • creating a reference PDF of every upgrade with campaign-specific notes. This one has to be continuously updated as FFG releases more stuff, which is why it's more of an FAQ thing meant to live online instead of printed.

 

 

 

I've held off professionally printing the book until version 0.8 is out, I've got wave 8 pilot abilities on a word doc (and wave 9 Arc) and the Terrain is lovely and printed, cant wait for version 0.8 so i can get printing!!

 

i was looking into splitting the booklet myself as its the only bug bear i have (along with Ai Logic etc for bombs) so am glad that being looked into.

 

This excites me more than Tourney play, i love it and the prize support from my FLGS is awesome but nothing beats blowing up a load of tie fighters!!

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I've been having a lot of fun with HotAC, thanks for creating this Josh!  Must have taken a lot of testing for balance.

 

I have one question on the enemy AI action selection for anyone that knows the answer...

 

Action Selection

1) Remove stress or Resolve critical

2) Barrel roll to get a shot [on it's target] OR [on any rebel ship]?

3) Barrel roll to avoid target's arc, and keep target in your arc

4) Focus if you have a shot [on it's target] OR [on any rebel ship]?

5) Evade

 

I'm pretty sure that Josh clarified at some point that step 4 should be Focus if you have a shot on any rebel ship (not just the target).  Step 3 is pretty clear that it will only barrel roll to avoid the target's arc and won't barrel roll to get out of another rebel ship's arc (even if only in that arc).

 

Is step 2 also only with regard to the selected target?  If it has no rebel ships in arc would it barrel roll if that would get a different rebel ship in arc (i.e. not it's target)?

 

No knows the answer to the previous AI action selection question for sure?    Basically whether or not a TIE fighter that does not have a shot and can not get a shot on its original selected target (even if it barrel rolls) should barrel roll in order to get a shot on a different rebel ship?

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I've been having a lot of fun with HotAC, thanks for creating this Josh!  Must have taken a lot of testing for balance.

 

I have one question on the enemy AI action selection for anyone that knows the answer...

 

Action Selection

1) Remove stress or Resolve critical

2) Barrel roll to get a shot [on it's target] OR [on any rebel ship]?

3) Barrel roll to avoid target's arc, and keep target in your arc

4) Focus if you have a shot [on it's target] OR [on any rebel ship]?

5) Evade

 

I'm pretty sure that Josh clarified at some point that step 4 should be Focus if you have a shot on any rebel ship (not just the target).  Step 3 is pretty clear that it will only barrel roll to avoid the target's arc and won't barrel roll to get out of another rebel ship's arc (even if only in that arc).

 

Is step 2 also only with regard to the selected target?  If it has no rebel ships in arc would it barrel roll if that would get a different rebel ship in arc (i.e. not it's target)?

 

No knows the answer to the previous AI action selection question for sure?    Basically whether or not a TIE fighter that does not have a shot and can not get a shot on its original selected target (even if it barrel rolls) should barrel roll in order to get a shot on a different rebel ship?

 

 

This is answered in the (by now way too long) comments section of the faq over at http://dockingbay416.com/campaign/faq/

 

Someone asked this

 

I have anot her question… so it says that you select a target the re select a target during combat.

My question is once selecting the target does he basiccally get blinders and essentially ignore the existance of all other ships?

 

Meaning he selects target A and does his manuever. He doesn’t end up with target A in his arc and barrel rolling won’t get him there… however he has a different ship in his arc… does he evade cause he doesn’t have a shot on the original target or does he focus because he has a shot in general?

 

This also can apply to the barrel rolling to get out of arc while keeping target in arc… does this apply if he is in any target arc?.. so ship A is his target and after moving he is in ship Bs arc and can shoot ship A but is not in ship As arc. Does he barrel roll out of ship Bs arc while keeping Ship A in his arc?

 

We’ve been playing it that in first example he has a shot so he focuses and in example be he barrel rolls out of arc. I’m sure there is a specific way thay balances properly and I’d like to be doing it the way it was intended.

 

And thanks yet again!

 

to which Josh replied this:

 

During the action selection phase, if it’s possible for the AI ship to get its target in range/arc by using barrel roll or boost, it should do so.

If it can’t get range/arc on its target, but it has other enemies in range/arc, it should end up with focus.

Then, during combat phase, it’ll just shoot the nearest enemy (unless the mission has special rules for what to fire at), regardless of who it tried to chase during its maneuver & action selection.

 

So the action selection comes down to:

1) Remove stress or Resolve critical

2) Barrel roll to get a shot [on it's target]

3) Barrel roll to avoid target's arc, and keep target in your arc

4) Focus if you have a shot [on any rebel ship]

5) Evade

 

I'd like to know how it is with 3) if the target has a turret, because that is basically a wasted action there then and it should rather focus. I think it would only make sense to avoid the arc if an attack made via the arc is more powerful than the turret (e.g. Torpedoes).

Edited by JayDestroyaC

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Anyone had an idea that would work on an a wing to increase fire power?

I'm thinking out maneuver, gemmers pilot ability, vectored thrusters ptl. And expose, so expose then boost/barrel roll to get r1 and hopefully out of arc (failing that, prockets in the face at r1)

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Not a lot of ways to deal a lot of damage with an A-Wing, other than EM Procket alphas.  Outmaneuver is one of the better abilities for it, IMO. That would tandem well with Expose, but the question is what are you giving up to get Expose? Because you probably need PTL to take advantage of it.  At PS5, you have 3 abilities. PTL/Expose/Outmaneuver is nice, but you're going to lose Focus if you can't reach out of arc with your basic maneuver.  Once you lose Focus, you're really ending up in a slightly statistically inferior position. 

 

Four dice without a Focus is a 2 hit average.  Three dice with Focus is 2.25 hits on average.  If you have Predator instead of Expose, you've upped your average to 2.81 hits, which falls only slightly short of Expose + Focus which is 3 hits averaged. And Predator works all the time, including when you need to both shoot, and defend. 

 

I still think the A-Wing isn't a good ship until PS7 when you can stack a 4th EPT.  If you had Jake Farrell (or Sabine's attack shuttle ability)/Expose/PTL/Outmaneuver, then you're possibly ending up in a superior place. Then you have a 3-hit average with Expose and a Focus, and you'll still get your reposition. You could also use Keyan Farlander to eat your stress but you're giving up action economy slightly and can't use Keyan's ability as a Focus if you need to defend.

 

I think the most (effective) firepower you can get with an A-Wing would be PS7+, using PTL/Outmaneuver/Expose/Predator. That would give you theoretically 3.75 hits at R1 out of arc (+ Focus), against 1.25 evades against a TIE with a Focus Token (2.5 damage average), 1.75 evades with an Evade Token (2 damage average) or .75 evades without a token (3 damage average). You'd still be getting the Outmaneuver PredaProckets dealing 4.69 hits. If you add Guidance Chimps, you've bumped your PredaProckets up to an all-but-guaranteed 5 hits (4.94 hits average). The downside is that to achieve that shot, you're basically an X-Wing for the turn since you can't reposition (unless you have Experimental Interface as well and want to suck up an extra stress token). 

 

 

Juke is a possibility on an A-Wing as well, but really only works against TIEs without Focus Tokens, which, well, often requires some teamwork since it's the default action most of the time. Otherwise it's nothing more than a way to all but guarantee to strip a Focus token to help out one of your buddies firing subsequently.

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Not a lot of ways to deal a lot of damage with an A-Wing, other than EM Procket alphas.  Outmaneuver is one of the better abilities for it, IMO. That would tandem well with Expose, but the question is what are you giving up to get Expose? Because you probably need PTL to take advantage of it.  At PS5, you have 3 abilities. PTL/Expose/Outmaneuver is nice, but you're going to lose Focus if you can't reach out of arc with your basic maneuver.  Once you lose Focus, you're really ending up in a slightly statistically inferior position. 

 

Four dice without a Focus is a 2 hit average.  Three dice with Focus is 2.25 hits on average.  If you have Predator instead of Expose, you've upped your average to 2.81 hits, which falls only slightly short of Expose + Focus which is 3 hits averaged. And Predator works all the time, including when you need to both shoot, and defend. 

 

I still think the A-Wing isn't a good ship until PS7 when you can stack a 4th EPT.  If you had Jake Farrell (or Sabine's attack shuttle ability)/Expose/PTL/Outmaneuver, then you're possibly ending up in a superior place. Then you have a 3-hit average with Expose and a Focus, and you'll still get your reposition. You could also use Keyan Farlander to eat your stress but you're giving up action economy slightly and can't use Keyan's ability as a Focus if you need to defend.

 

I think the most (effective) firepower you can get with an A-Wing would be PS7+, using PTL/Outmaneuver/Expose/Predator. That would give you theoretically 3.75 hits at R1 out of arc (+ Focus), against 1.25 evades against a TIE with a Focus Token (2.5 damage average), 1.75 evades with an Evade Token (2 damage average) or .75 evades without a token (3 damage average). You'd still be getting the Outmaneuver PredaProckets dealing 4.69 hits. If you add Guidance Chimps, you've bumped your PredaProckets up to an all-but-guaranteed 5 hits (4.94 hits average). The downside is that to achieve that shot, you're basically an X-Wing for the turn since you can't reposition (unless you have Experimental Interface as well and want to suck up an extra stress token). 

 

 

Juke is a possibility on an A-Wing as well, but really only works against TIEs without Focus Tokens, which, well, often requires some teamwork since it's the default action most of the time. Otherwise it's nothing more than a way to all but guarantee to strip a Focus token to help out one of your buddies firing subsequently.

I might go with Jakes ability as well to get me a focus + boost/barrel roll, also I really want etahns ability as crits are always good on unshielded ties!

Edited by taulover55

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Any ideas on when HoTAC is being updated again? 1.0 release or am I dreaming?

 

Likely not for the foreseeable future, last I heard the original author is now deep into other projects (that he gets actually paid for, unlike HotAC), so it will have to wait. But feel free to edit on your own and share your improvements with us.

 

 

Yes, this is accurate.

It's been a combination of working two jobs, general life stuff, and losing the fantastic Friday night X-wing play space/scene I had when I was developing HotAC.

 

I've worked on half a dozen boardgames over the past year, including these two:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/203102/buffy-vampire-slayer-board-game

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1746391996/neverlands-legacy/description

 

However, we're coming up on the one year anniversary for HotAC's public beta release next week, and the fact that this thread is still chugging along makes me smile.

We should do something to celebrate!

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Any ideas on when HoTAC is being updated again? 1.0 release or am I dreaming?

 

Likely not for the foreseeable future, last I heard the original author is now deep into other projects (that he gets actually paid for, unlike HotAC), so it will have to wait. But feel free to edit on your own and share your improvements with us.

 

 

Yes, this is accurate.

It's been a combination of working two jobs, general life stuff, and losing the fantastic Friday night X-wing play space/scene I had when I was developing HotAC.

 

I've worked on half a dozen boardgames over the past year, including these two:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/203102/buffy-vampire-slayer-board-game

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1746391996/neverlands-legacy/description

 

However, we're coming up on the one year anniversary for HotAC's public beta release next week, and the fact that this thread is still chugging along makes me smile.

We should do something to celebrate!

 

If I wasnt busy with my Edge of Empire stuff, I'd try to have more HotAC:Hunters material ready. the aniversary snuck up on me.

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Any ideas on when HoTAC is being updated again? 1.0 release or am I dreaming?

 

Likely not for the foreseeable future, last I heard the original author is now deep into other projects (that he gets actually paid for, unlike HotAC), so it will have to wait. But feel free to edit on your own and share your improvements with us.

 

 

Yes, this is accurate.

It's been a combination of working two jobs, general life stuff, and losing the fantastic Friday night X-wing play space/scene I had when I was developing HotAC.

 

I've worked on half a dozen boardgames over the past year, including these two:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/203102/buffy-vampire-slayer-board-game

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1746391996/neverlands-legacy/description

 

However, we're coming up on the one year anniversary for HotAC's public beta release next week, and the fact that this thread is still chugging along makes me smile.

We should do something to celebrate!

 

 

Good to hear from you and see you alive and kickin'.

Whenever you find the time to keep us updated on the current status of the HotAC v0.8, please feed us some bits :)

 

I'm not sure you if you want to share what you have but I think you said something like you have more missions on the backlog that only need playtesting, and some kind of scum arc?

If you feel like you want to share I'm sure we can find someone who...

 

...WILL FINISH... WHAT YOU STARTED. </imperial march theme>

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