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X-Wing Co-Op Campaign is Here!

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We made few days ago the mission "Imperial Entanglement".

We are 2 players with PS5, a B-wing and an X-wing. 

 

Mission was so easy I had to check multiple times we didn't make a mistake

....

Someone tried this mission before? any feedback please ?

It's possible that mission doesn't scale well for 2 players as written.

I've also been thinking about removing the dice-roll for the transport; it doesn't really need the extra energy.

Also, the Decimator is really only the Empire's backup plan that forces the players to leave. If the TIE Bomber(s) succeed in getting at the transport, things get very tense. If the Rebels make quick work of the Bombers, things probably go well.

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Played Capture Imperial Officer (M1) again last night (this makes the 3rd time I've played it).

 

4 Player 1st attempt:  failed by 1 pt. of damage against a tie fighter in turn 9.  3 Interceptors came on and we bugged out.

4 Player 2nd attempt: succeeded in turn 9!

6 Player 3rd attempt: failed by 1 pt. of damage against a tie fighter in turn 9.  4 Interceptors came on and we bugged out.

 

Personally, I think the mission is fine and needs no tweaking.

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Played Capture Imperial Officer (M1) again last night (this makes the 3rd time I've played it).

 

4 Player 1st attempt:  failed by 1 pt. of damage against a tie fighter in turn 9.  3 Interceptors came on and we bugged out.

4 Player 2nd attempt: succeeded in turn 9!

6 Player 3rd attempt: failed by 1 pt. of damage against a tie fighter in turn 9.  4 Interceptors came on and we bugged out.

 

Personally, I think the mission is fine and needs no tweaking.

 

I think the conflicting reports are the result of different player counts and PS levels, which is an indication that the mission scaling could be improved a bit.

 

What was your squadron like in those three games?

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We have a group of four players playing Heros of the Aturi Cluster on Vassal--and have started to maintain a blog with battle reports at http://grimsquadron.weebly.com. So far so good!

 

We've included some optional medals cards in order to facilitate and encourage the adoption of roles, or to introduce some of the optional rules (large ships, unbalanced ships) while still providing some level of fairness. 

 

Here's a Link to the medals explanation page: http://grimsquadron.weebly.com/aturi-campaign-system.html 

 

Medal_5kills_zpstb1eqgi1.png  Posthumous_zps1jwcm5lj.png  Medal_Guardian_zpsxzavygqz.png  Medal_Smuggler_zpsne71bhom.png  

Edited by PEARSUS

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Played Capture Imperial Officer (M1) again last night (this makes the 3rd time I've played it).

 

4 Player 1st attempt:  failed by 1 pt. of damage against a tie fighter in turn 9.  3 Interceptors came on and we bugged out.

4 Player 2nd attempt: succeeded in turn 9!

6 Player 3rd attempt: failed by 1 pt. of damage against a tie fighter in turn 9.  4 Interceptors came on and we bugged out.

 

Personally, I think the mission is fine and needs no tweaking.

 

I think the conflicting reports are the result of different player counts and PS levels, which is an indication that the mission scaling could be improved a bit.

 

What was your squadron like in those three games?

 

 

As best I can remember:

 

Campaign 1:

1st Attempt (this was the 2nd mission we played, right after the Local Trouble mission, although I think we earned XP a little wrong. The Y wings got more xp because they were double tapping and in re-reading the rules I think that is wrong)

X Wing: PS3, BB-8, Engine Upgrade (7 xp)

X Wing: PS3, Hull Upgrade, R5-X3, (6 xp)

Y Wing: PS3 / BTL, Ion Turret, R5-P9, Engine Upgrade (10 xp)

Y Wing: PS3 / BTL, Ion Turret, Hull, R7-T1 (9 xp)

 

2nd Attempt: *success*

X Wing: PS3, BB-8, Engine Upgrade, Hull Upgrade, and EPT (don't remember) (16 xp)  This pilot got shot down in the first attempt so got much less XP.

X Wing: PS4, Hull Upgrade, R5-X3, (14 xp). I honestly don't remember what we gave this guy, but we made him squad leader so bumped his PS up.

Y Wing: PS4 / BTL, Ion Turret, Hull, R5-P9, Predator, Engine Upgrade (27 xp)

Y Wing: PS4 / BTL, Ion Turret, Hull, Shield, R7 Unit, Tarn Mison pilot ability (26 xp)

 

Campaign 2:

1st Attempt (again, this was the 2nd mission we played, right after we completed Local Trouble.)

 

Banquo (played by Vin Diesel): PS3 X Wing with BB8, Hull Upgrade, Crack Shot

Bingo Diggs (played by Steve Buscemi): PS2 X Wing with Hull Upgrade and Crack Shot

Chloe (played by my pet Rottweiler, Chloe*): PS3 Y Wing with Twin Laser Turret, R3 A2, and Hull upgrade

Tango** (played by Sylvester Stallone): PS3 X Wing with R2 Unit, Hull Upgrade, PS3 and Earden Vrill

Cash** (played by Kurt Russel): PS2 X Wing with R2 Unit and Hull Upgrade

Sunny Trayne (played by Charlize Theron) (aka: "Solar Express"):  PS2 Y Wing with R7-T1, Ion Cannon Turret and Hull upgrade

 

 

*The idea of my Rottweiler, Chloe, piloting a Y Wing, with a little space helmet and flight suit is too precious to pass up. Like the Y wing, she is a tank, bumps into a lot of things, not very maneuverable, and basically is just a beast.

 

**Ok so a quick anecdote, here:  A long time ago, in my tweens (I'm 41 now), I saw the movie Tango and Cash, and remarked to my peer group (much to my chagrin), that it was better than Star Wars. I have been mocked endlessly and without cessation since that fateful day sharing my opinion over 25 years ago.  My friends see to it, with much glee, that I never forget this day. I quickly rescinded my decision, but since then I have rescinded by rescinding and the statement stands:  Tango and Cash is better Star Wars (at least 4 of the 6 Star Wars movies).  However, when my buddy, last night, and I, decided to start HoAC, and i was trying to coming up with a couple pilot names, he gleefully offered "how about Tango and Cash". "Perfect", I remarked, thus my squad was born.

Edited by Rocmistro

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This campaign is awesome.  Constructive criticism:  I think missions should offer XP reward for success even it is just 1 point.

 

 

 

After playing this for awhile I totally wish that XP rewards were more based around mission completion. No worrying about if your build is gaming the rules or that TLTs  are basically free XP. Or if your buddy took the unique pilot talent you were hoping to get and now you have less XP potential. XP feels very much like a snowball mechanism right now. 

 

I think I'd gut the damage mechanic completely. Make only kills worth XP and that goes to a pool. Make the mission objectives the point pinatas. Have the a successful completion be a much larger chunk of the point. I think as a co-op game a catch up type xp mechanic would be a lot more pleasant for the bulk of the players. 

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This campaign is awesome.  Constructive criticism:  I think missions should offer XP reward for success even it is just 1 point.

 

 

 

After playing this for awhile I totally wish that XP rewards were more based around mission completion. No worrying about if your build is gaming the rules or that TLTs  are basically free XP. Or if your buddy took the unique pilot talent you were hoping to get and now you have less XP potential. XP feels very much like a snowball mechanism right now. 

 

I think I'd gut the damage mechanic completely. Make only kills worth XP and that goes to a pool. Make the mission objectives the point pinatas. Have the a successful completion be a much larger chunk of the point. I think as a co-op game a catch up type xp mechanic would be a lot more pleasant for the bulk of the players. 

 

It would also reduce some of the bad vibes around 'kill-stealing' when someone kills 'your' ship after you whittled away most of its health.

 

This is probably not a bad thing.

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A small group (3), have just started HotAC .. we hope to pick up more players in early December, and will likely reset at that time ..

 

I have not seen the XP rewards for completing the objectives .. did I miss that? .. please tell me where to find that in the document.

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I got the idea elsewhere of having every player get 1 xp for a kill, not just the person who fires the last shot. 

I think it will help lower PS players from getting discouraged when they can't build XP.

we are currently putting the XP's from kills into a blender .. (average all kills to all participants) .. though I am thinking every 5'th should go directly to that pilot instead.

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Hey, I've gotta ask ..

 

.. after playing local trouble and rescue rebel operative, I get the feeling that a t-70 x-wing is way over balanced .. we had little issue with either mission using only 3 T65's in local trouble and 2 T65's in rebel operative .. that extra shield, engine and upgrade slots with the expanded maneuver dial, just seam like drastic Monty Hall.

 

.. Those of you using T70's, did you also do something to make the game more challenging? .. is there something I have overlooked that would make it more difficult than what I have experienced?

Edited by w3k4

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Hey, I've gotta ask ..

 

.. after playing local trouble and rescue rebel operative, I get the feeling that a t-70 x-wing is way over balanced .. we had little issue with either mission using only 3 T65's in local trouble and 2 T65's in rebel operative .. that extra shield, engine and upgrade slots with the expanded maneuver dial, just seam like drastic Monty Hall.

 

.. Those of you using T70's, did you also do something to make the game more challenging? .. is there something I have overlooked that would make it more difficult than what I have experienced?

 

I'm allowing upgrading to T-70s at PS 4 or higher, for 5 XP, with no difficulty adjustments. It doesn't seem to be breaking the game. Local Trouble is probably the literally easiest mission in the game, and Rescue Rebel Operative is also pretty easy if you're smart about how you fly the HWK. I have definitely lost missions using the T-70. A lot of the time, you aren't losing by just getting yourself blown up; you lose by not efficiently pursuing the mission objectives or using a poor strategy. The T-70 may be a bit stronger than the standard the campaign was designed around, but it's not going to auto-win missions or complete objectives for you on its own.

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The T70 in this game is probably closer to what the original T65 should have been from the beginning. What made the X-Wing a great fighter was its versatility to act both as a phenomenal escort, an okay strike craft, an makeshift interceptor, or given the need, even a torpedo platform.

The T65 in this game is extremely limited to just face an opponent and roll dice at them, with zero repositioning abilities and zero tricks in its sleeves.

I understand that the campaign wants to put the heroes on the controls of X-Wings and Y-Wings, because that was what the "real" rebel heroes were using all the time due to the versatility of these two ships. But it is not weird that players want to jump fast to the better incarnation of the X-Wing as soon as they can.

A T65 is a glorified Z95 in this game, while the T70 is much much more able to deal with wave after wave of TIEs.

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By brother and I just polished off our short campaign by finishing Pride of the Empire and picking up 3/3 victory points.

 

And boy, did we polish it off. The lone elite died on turn 3, the shuttle followed on turn 4 and then it was just a matter of mopping up the TIEs and the pesky Stealth Device Interceptor that popped up later.

 

I really love Advanced Proton Torpedoes, T70/BB8/PTL and Nera Dantels.

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I am in a 7 player game and I have not seen any kill stealing, or TLTs being free XP. We can be a prickly bunch but winning as a team is the objective.

Kill stealing is rediculous, a dead ship helps everyone. We can arrange the order of attacks, striping tokens then letting those that need the XP try to kill it. Accidents happen like rolling all hits followed by all evades, but that's not to common.

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Yeah killstealing isn't a thing. As per Oswald Boelke "It does not matter who actually scores the victory as long as the Staffel wins." (Staffel = squadron).

 

Of course X-wing doesn't account for surprise attacks from unknown enemies (much - Aturi has it a bit, and of course phantoms/re positioning shenanigans). Doesn't reaaallly have friendly fire (though.. ruthless). So some of the dicta Boelke doesn't apply that much.

Edited by DariusAPB

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I've run this campaign at a local game store three weeks in a row now, and so far, still no real "kill stealing." The players in my group really emphasize cooperative play, and work really well together as a squad. 

 

On an unrelated note, I just started a solo campaign tonight. I started with a single X-Wing with BB-8, and I had a blast. Having an arc-dodging X-Wing was a lot of fun. In round 2, I managed to one-shot the second TIE fighter, and in round 6, I did the same to a stealth device TIE Interceptor. In the 7th round, I managed to put a Direct Hit on the first TIE Fighter, but sadly I didn't manage to bring it down before the end of round 10. This is my first time ever flying a ship that wasn't Imperial, and it's gotten me a bit interested in trying out some more Rebel ships. (For the record, I don't fly a ship in the store campaign. I just set up the missions and 'control' the AI.)

 

After I've played around with the rest of the Rebel ships, I think I'm going to start building AI cards for all the Rebels, and possibly for Scum & Villainy as well. I'd love to make an Imperial version of this campaign that focuses on driving the Rebels and pirates (and a few treacherous Imperials) out of an Outer Rim sector. Thinking of calling it Defenders of Shelkonwa, based off of the Shelsha Sector from Timothy Zahn's Allegiance. I think I have most of the missions in mind already, I just need to come up with AI cards and balance it properly.

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I've run this campaign at a local game store three weeks in a row now, and so far, still no real "kill stealing." The players in my group really emphasize cooperative play, and work really well together as a squad.

On an unrelated note, I just started a solo campaign tonight. I started with a single X-Wing with BB-8, and I had a blast. Having an arc-dodging X-Wing was a lot of fun. In round 2, I managed to one-shot the second TIE fighter, and in round 6, I did the same to a stealth device TIE Interceptor. In the 7th round, I managed to put a Direct Hit on the first TIE Fighter, but sadly I didn't manage to bring it down before the end of round 10. This is my first time ever flying a ship that wasn't Imperial, and it's gotten me a bit interested in trying out some more Rebel ships. (For the record, I don't fly a ship in the store campaign. I just set up the missions and 'control' the AI.)

After I've played around with the rest of the Rebel ships, I think I'm going to start building AI cards for all the Rebels, and possibly for Scum & Villainy as well. I'd love to make an Imperial version of this campaign that focuses on driving the Rebels and pirates (and a few treacherous Imperials) out of an Outer Rim sector. Thinking of calling it Defenders of Shelkonwa, based off of the Shelsha Sector from Timothy Zahn's Allegiance. I think I have most of the missions in mind already, I just need to come up with AI cards and balance it properly.

If I could double like a post I would. I know all are eager for an Imperial campaign and more AI. Nothing against Armoredgear7, I think that this format has taken firm root and brought something into X-wing that was perhaps lacking - cinematic squadron tactics with lots of cliche catch phrases and TIEs spinning into space.

While I was in between X-wing podcasts, I stubble upon the Intensify Forward Firepower cast about Armada. Great group. Funny and interesting despite that I never intend to get into Armada (money / time). Anyway, those guys have an HotAC campaign going that is well documented and quite thematic. Find it here: http://www.wwpd.net/p/star-wars-x-wing.html?m=1

They have been talking about doing a HotAC podcast episode. I think it would be great if Armoredgear7 was a guest star.

Coming back around to the quoted post, I'm working through some thoughts for a Scum campaign that could offer interesting variant the system Armoredgear7 has devised with its own appropriately scummy themes.

Edited by Rhoaran

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So thinking more about unlocking the T-70 as an upgrade ship, I have to make an argument that it should cost 10 XP to unlock.

 

Basically, there is absolutely no reason why, at 5 XP, you wouldn't immediately move into a T-70 at PS4.

For 5 points you get the equivalent of:

-a 4 pt. Shield Upgrade

-a 4 pt. Engine Upgrade

-a free "tech" slot

-a green 3^ and the 2 talon rolls.

And you give up absolutely nothing in return.  You don't even have to sacrifice any of your previously purchased upgrades, since everything you bought as an T-65 (or a Y wing, for that matter), is available to you in a T-70.

 

This is not an issue of the T-70 being "overpowered". I'm sure the campaign could be played quite nicely with a 5 pt. upgrade T-70, and it might even get shot down a couple times.  Rather, this is about sustaining meaningful choices and making the players' decision-making actually important by forcing a cost-benefit analysis. "Do I want to purchase a helpful R2 unit right now and spend XP on it, knowing full well I plan on moving into a B Wing later on?"  "Do I want to give up the X Wings durability and simple offense for more speed, agi, and EPT slots on an A Wing?"

 

There is no cost-benefit analysis to a T-70 at 5 pts. It's a simple slam dunk auto-choice.

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So thinking more about unlocking the T-70 as an upgrade ship, I have to make an argument that it should cost 10 XP to unlock.

 

Basically, there is absolutely no reason why, at 5 XP, you wouldn't immediately move into a T-70 at PS4.

For 5 points you get the equivalent of:

-a 4 pt. Shield Upgrade

-a 4 pt. Engine Upgrade

-a free "tech" slot

-a green 3^ and the 2 talon rolls.

And you give up absolutely nothing in return.  You don't even have to sacrifice any of your previously purchased upgrades, since everything you bought as an T-65 (or a Y wing, for that matter), is available to you in a T-70.

 

This is not an issue of the T-70 being "overpowered". I'm sure the campaign could be played quite nicely with a 5 pt. upgrade T-70, and it might even get shot down a couple times.  Rather, this is about sustaining meaningful choices and making the players' decision-making actually important by forcing a cost-benefit analysis. "Do I want to purchase a helpful R2 unit right now and spend XP on it, knowing full well I plan on moving into a B Wing later on?"  "Do I want to give up the X Wings durability and simple offense for more speed, agi, and EPT slots on an A Wing?"

 

There is no cost-benefit analysis to a T-70 at 5 pts. It's a simple slam dunk auto-choice.

 

This is a good point. Increasing the cost to switch to a T-70 would be one way to incentivize alternatives (either putting off the switch until your other upgrades are more filled out, or switching to a B-Wing or A-Wing instead). Another way to tweak things would be to not allow the T-70 until a higher PS than 4. You could put it at 6 or 7 instead. That would give players eager to switch away from the X-Wing or Y-Wing incentive to go for a B-Wing or A-wing sooner, or else they'll have to stick it out with the T-65 or Y-Wing longer until they can make the upgrade.

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We have a group of four players playing Heros of the Aturi Cluster on Vassal--and have started to maintain a blog with battle reports at http://grimsquadron.weebly.com. So far so good!

 

We've included some optional medals cards in order to facilitate and encourage the adoption of roles, or to introduce some of the optional rules (large ships, unbalanced ships) while still providing some level of fairness. 

 

Here's a Link to the medals explanation page: http://grimsquadron.weebly.com/aturi-campaign-system.html 

 

Medal_5kills_zpstb1eqgi1.png  Posthumous_zps1jwcm5lj.png  Medal_Guardian_zpsxzavygqz.png  Medal_Smuggler_zpsne71bhom.png

I really like your approach to tweaking aspects of the campaign which fell a little short. The medals emphasize the RP aspect. I could see a good variety of medals being introduced to add more flare and develop characters.

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Coming back around to the quoted post, I'm working through some thoughts for a Scum campaign that could offer interesting variant the system Armoredgear7 has devised with its own appropriately scummy themes.

 

 

Glad to hear someone's working on this a bit- had some ideas kicking around myself.  What's your aim?  Are you thinking along the lines of a straight pirate or crime syndicate campaign or something more like Firefly/Cowboy Beebop?

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So thinking more about unlocking the T-70 as an upgrade ship, I have to make an argument that it should cost 10 XP to unlock.

 

Basically, there is absolutely no reason why, at 5 XP, you wouldn't immediately move into a T-70 at PS4.

For 5 points you get the equivalent of:

-a 4 pt. Shield Upgrade

-a 4 pt. Engine Upgrade

-a free "tech" slot

-a green 3^ and the 2 talon rolls.

And you give up absolutely nothing in return.  You don't even have to sacrifice any of your previously purchased upgrades, since everything you bought as an T-65 (or a Y wing, for that matter), is available to you in a T-70.

 

This is not an issue of the T-70 being "overpowered". I'm sure the campaign could be played quite nicely with a 5 pt. upgrade T-70, and it might even get shot down a couple times.  Rather, this is about sustaining meaningful choices and making the players' decision-making actually important by forcing a cost-benefit analysis. "Do I want to purchase a helpful R2 unit right now and spend XP on it, knowing full well I plan on moving into a B Wing later on?"  "Do I want to give up the X Wings durability and simple offense for more speed, agi, and EPT slots on an A Wing?"

 

There is no cost-benefit analysis to a T-70 at 5 pts. It's a simple slam dunk auto-choice.

Every 5 point ship is really good. the T70 benefit is in that comparability and a few little perks. If the T70 was the obvious choice above the others then we would have an issue.

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