Some Feedback for My turnament list needed

[Green Squadron 3 81]

Hey there is an Armada event closeing fast and i need some input on my list i want to use on it... this is what i created using my game experience... Xi17 are the best weapons out there... so i put them in also mon mothma works well with Electronic Countermesures so i can use the Evade (advanced projectors are not worth it) also i used 6 squadrons... i still need to pick the objectives for my fleet and need some feedback on those... any way here is the list...

Im still pondering adding Gram Bel Ibis instead of Mon Mothma... 

 

1 • Assault Frigate Mark II B - Assault Frigate Mark II (72)     - Mon Mothma (30)    - Intel Officer (7)    - Gunnery Team (7)    - Electronic Countermeasures (7)    - XI7 Turbolasers (6)
    • Total : 129    • Code : -
2 • Assault Frigate Mark II B - Assault Frigate Mark II (72)     - Raymus Antilles (7)    - Flight Controllers (6)    - Electronic Countermeasures (7)    - XI7 Turbolasers (6)
    • Total : 98    • Code : -
3 • X-wing Squadron - X-wing (13)
    • Total : 13    • Code : r6
4 • X-wing Squadron - X-wing (13)
    • Total : 13    • Code : r6
5 • X-wing Squadron - X-wing (13)
    • Total : 13    • Code : r6
6 • X-wing Squadron - X-wing (13)
    • Total : 13    • Code : r6
7 • Y-wing Squadron - Y-wing (10)
    • Total : 10    • Code : r9
8 • Y-wing Squadron - Y-wing (10)
    • Total : 10    • Code : r9

 

Total 299 points... 

Edited August 26, 2015 by Green Squadron 3

[BigBearCDN 53]

I think Garm is a much smarter play than Mon. 30 points to improve 2 defense tokens is so steep. Save 5 points and get 6 command tokens right off the bat. Upgrade a Y-Wing to Dutch and lock down your enemy's most fearsome squadron.

 

Imagine some Imperial dog spends 21 points on Vader and Dutch makes him skip a turn. Me love me some Dutch.

[Mundo 264]

Agreed with the above. Like the list, but I might swap out ECM for Advanced Projectors as they are so versatile. And get gunnery teams in both ships - it is a must have upgrade for the space whale!

[Corellian Corvette 1,733]

I would only run with advanced projectors only if I have Mon mothma. That way all 3 tokens are equally potent, and you have good responce options for any attack.

[Akhrin 576]

I had been pretty settled with ECM, but starting to see the advantage of Advanced Projectors on the AF2 so can see the benefit of either.

With a pair of AF2s Garm brings a lot of utility, but it depends when you expect to join the fight. If you're rushing in against the enemy (or expect them to rush you) then you'll get use of those tokens from turn 1, and should have used them up by turn 5 when you get the next set. If you expect to play a bit slower (that may depend on objectives) then you could have had plenty of chance to build those tokens up through dials the first few turns.

So lets talk objectives.

Assault

Advanced Gunnery is pretty good on an AF2, put it on the one without Gunnery Team and you should be able to unload three sets of attacks on a single target using XI7s, which will drill through shields and onto hull pretty efficiently. Good option if you just plan to straight-up-kill.

Precision Strikes is tempting with that many bombers. Once you start putting damage on a ship it can't just run away and bring its shields back up, as you'll still be able to flip those remaining damage cards for victory points.

Too few ships of Opening Salvo, and neither of your ships will be safe enough for Most Wanted.

Defence

Fire Lanes wins this for me. Park yourself next to all three and let them close on you, rack up the 45pts per turn and either let them fly into a bomber screen (buys you an extra turn for something like Concentrate Fire rather than Squad Command) or hold squads back a bit then throw them forward as soon as they come into range. They're likely closing straight-on at you so you can get plenty of use out of those XI7s to wipe out front-facing shields.

Consider Contested Outpost for a similar reason.

Hyperspace has potential to ambush them, but leaves each ship solo and vulnerable.

Fleet Ambush I don't see achieving much.

Navigation

I like Superior Positions here. Your squadrons should find it easy to get attacks on rear arcs, and it lets you react to your opponent's deployment. Watch out for the big rear arcs on the AF2s though, especially as the AF2 mostly wants to point side arcs at people, leaving the rear worryingly accessible.

Minefields is neither here no there really, and Intel or Dangerous Territory would likely require splitting your fleet.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Akhrin

[MoffZen 760]

I have a few suggestions to make ^^

 

Agreed with the others, I think that Garm will be a better choice with the Guppies (-5 points).

 

I'm not a fan of XI7 Turbolasers on carrier ships. With them you'd want to use Concetrate Fire Commands, while here your list obviously wants to maximize squadron effectiveness. Why Concentrate Fire wit XI7 ? Simply because adding one more dice is a potential of one extra hit or crit going through the shields. I'd remove them on both (-12 points).

 

Because you'll want to be kiting, I'd remove ECM and instead throw in Advanced Projectors on both. You get more mileage from ECM by going in close range where you will want to ensure at least one Brace or Redirect. At long range, Advanced Projectors makes it that much harder for the opponent to get accuracies (no Blue dice) and makes the choice between Brace, Redirect and Evade that much harder. (-2 points)

Remember, the Evade only prevents one dice, which is why it is marginally more interesting at long range rather than close range where you're likely to eat a 6 course menu full of dice, while at long range is allows to remove one third of the front arc of a Victory

 

Overall, you're saving 19 points on the list (leading to 280). With that, I'd simply get some Aces for your X-Wings with Luke and Wedge (back to 299), or maybe a Dutch + Wedge combo to kill out enemy Aces.

 

For the objectives, I'm in agreement with Akhrin, you could go for the following :

- Assault : Advanced Gunnery or Precision Strike (if you do my modifications, Precision Strike would work a lot better imho)

- Defense : Fire Lanes or Contested Outpost

- Navigation : Superior Positions for sure

Edited August 27, 2015 by MoffZen

[Green Squadron 3 81]

Guys i really appreciate the feedback so let’s get on to some discussion…
Akhrin MoffZen thanks for the input on objectives i decided to pick:
Advanced Gunnery - Precision strike is nice but i lose the token from the card when i use Graham Bel Ibis so im not so sure that is worth it... and shooting twice from the same hull zone is always nice.
Contested Outpost – well fire lanes are nice but i think it might be a little risky with just 2 ships easier to guard one spot and force my opponent to fly his ships into it
Superior Positions – the one is the best i can choose with this list.
Ok now for some upgrades discussion... I still don’t understand why Advanced Projectors > ECM... yes the projectors are gr8 but... i still have only one Redirect token... so accuracy will hurt and also XI17 turbolasers will hurt to:/ I know the goal is to engage the enemy at long range but this will not always be possible as Gladiator’s and Corvettes and even Neb-B’s are quite fast and it might be problematic to keep them at the distance.  So ECM is helpful when it comes to enemy accuracy since i only have 1 of each evade tokens... or am i mistaking...
As for XI17’s well they are good for striping enemy shields far better then the additional dice from enhanced armament  and blocking enemy redirect tokens is always nice.
Well as for commander when i kind a think about that Gram is better then Mon Mothma so i will sit a bit on the list and post a changed one: )

[MoffZen 760]

You don't take Precision Strike for the CF token You take it because you have many dice that can crit with the amount of Bombers you have in your list So it's okay if you lose it when taking Garm Bel Iblis.

 

Okay, so Advanced Projectors versus ECM. I didn't say that they were better. I said you'd get more mileage from them at long range, which is where your AFMK2 Bs want to stay.

Here is a scenario with Advanced Projectors (the key takeaways for each point is in bold) :

1) You are being shot at by the front arc of a VSD with Concentrate Fire at long range, so you take 4 red dice to the face

2) The average damage is 2.5 and the average accuracies is 0.5, let's round up at 3 damage and 1 accuracies (let's assume that he didn't roll any double damage, for 3 hits and 1 accuracy).

3) You are at long range on your side arc. Let's see what the results are if :

a) He negates your Evade : You can Brace and Redirect, resulting in 2 total redirected to 1 damage on 2 facings, which can be on the two sides on the other side of your ship where they are the least likely to be shot at (opposite hull section + adjacent hull section that will be away from the line of fire). The hull zone you've been shot at is still at full shields, and so is the one that is the second most likely to be targeted.

b) He negates your Brace : You can Evade and Redirect, resulting in negating one damage die for a total of 2 damage, redirected to 1 damage on 2 facings on the other side of your ship. The end result is the same as 3a).

c) He negates your Redirect : You can Brace and Evade, removing 1 damage die, then halving it, for a total of 1 damage on the hull zone you've been shot at.

 

With Advanced Projectors, the worst case scenario on an statistically average roll is taking 1 shield damage on the facing you've been shot at.

 

Let's repeat the process with ECM, going straight to step 3.

3) Due to ECM, you can use all of your tokens and totally negate his accuracy. Assuming you use all of them, you'll be getting 1 damage that you can Redirect to an adjacent hull zone. That zone won't ever be the zone completely opposite to the one that you've been shot at. In conclusion, you have 3 shields that you will never get to use.

However, ECM works relatively well in that case, better than Advanced Projectors.

 

Now, that scenario was a pretty good roll for the Imperial player, let's do the same but taking the other side of the average, going down to 2 damage and 0 accuracies.

 

A) With Advanced Projectors, you take 1 damage to the other side of the ship, still keeping your Brace. The targeted hullzone and the two adjacent remain untouched.

B) With ECM, you take 1 damage to an adjacent hullzone, acting exactly as if you didn't have ECM and still keeping your Brace as well. So it's 7 points wasted.

 

So, as you can see, what happens is that when accuracies have lower chances of popping up, ECM is less interesting. At long range, considering that each red die only has a 12.5% chance to roll an accuracy, you are relatively safe. And you get 3 shields to redirect to that you will never get to use, which expand your survivability by that much.

Remember that this scenario was when eating 4 dice to the face, which doesn't happen necessarily often.

 

When diving in however, and expecting to take rolls of 6 to 7 dice, the chance to get hit by accuracies is that much probable. In that case, you want to ensure that your 2 main defense tokens at close and medium range (Brace and Redirect) can be used. At these range, Advanced Projectors become much less useful, and the chances to see 2 accuracies in the front arc of a VSD2 is really high, making Advanced Projectors useless.

 

I do agree that you are going to get more use out of Advanced Projectors with an Imperial SD with 2 Redirect Tokens. But at long range for an AFMK2, it is more efficient because it increases your total hull + shields by 3 points.

[Green Squadron 3 81]

Well now this is really good rundown about difference betwen the projectors and ECM but since im not a sesoned veteran yet i have dubts that i will be able to keep my opponent at arms lenght:) 

[Mundo 264]

...

Advanced Gunnery - Precision strike is nice but i lose the token from the card when i use Graham Bel Ibis so im not so sure that is worth it... and shooting twice from the same hull zone is always nice.

...

Graham Bel Iblis must be Garm's younger brother. ;-)  Dang autocorrect!

[Green Squadron 3 81]

LOL thanks  

[Green Squadron 3 81]

1 • Assault Frigate Mark II B - Assault Frigate Mark II (72)     - Garm Bel Iblis (25)    - Gunnery Team (7)    - Advanced Projectors (6)    - XI7 Turbolasers (6)
    • Total : 116   
2 • Assault Frigate Mark II B - Assault Frigate Mark II (72)     - Flight Controllers (6)    - Advanced Projectors (6)    - XI7 Turbolasers (6)
    • Total : 90   
3 • X-wing Squadron - X-wing (13)
    • Total : 13    
4 • X-wing Squadron - X-wing (13)
    • Total : 13    
5 • X-wing Squadron - X-wing (13)
    • Total : 13  
6 • X-wing Squadron - X-wing (13)
    • Total : 13    
7 • B-wing Squadron - B-wing (14)
    • Total : 14   
8 • B-wing Squadron - B-wing (14)
    • Total : 14    
9 • Objectives - Objectives (0)     - Advanced Gunnery (0)    - Contested Outpost (0)    - Superior Positions (0)
 

Total : 286

 

Ok reworked my list as per your tips what do you think about it now??? still have 14 points left so i wonder what i can do with them... 

[MoffZen 760]

Upgrade to Aces or Gallant Haven, think of Adar Tallon too

[BigBearCDN 53]

I love Adar Tallons ability but for 10 points I'm not sure I'm getting my money's worth. I ran him last battle and only used his ability once. You pretty much have to spam squadron commands to set him up for use. Also for Gallant Haven I can't remember the last time a dogfight took place next to my AF2. Trade in those 2 cards and you can get another nice squadron Ace.

[MoffZen 760]

I love Adar Tallons ability but for 10 points I'm not sure I'm getting my money's worth. I ran him last battle and only used his ability once. You pretty much have to spam squadron commands to set him up for use. Also for Gallant Haven I can't remember the last time a dogfight took place next to my AF2. Trade in those 2 cards and you can get another nice squadron Ace.

 

If you have a ship that is a dedicated carrier for Rebels (Neb B Escort, AFMK2 B), then Tallon works nicely enough.

 

That said, where he shines is when you use him to get double (triple with Yavaris) use out of your Aces' abilities. Sure, getting a double use of a regular X-Wing is good, but now think about getting Luke twice for 2 black dice under the shields (now with Dodonna we're talking about a serious chance to inflict the crit you want early on). Or think about double tapping Wedge for 12 blue anti-squadron dice in a daring counter attack. Or completely trolling the Imperial player when Dutch Vander Ion Cannons two of his Aces and keeps them out of use for the entire game. Or Keyan for double damage that reroll once shields are down.

 

The only one not getting much use out of Tallon is Tycho because his ability is mainly there to help better control the engagements. But in a single turn it's quite useless to double activate him.

 

Regarding Gallant Haven, I've had excellent mileage throwing it on an AFMK2B with Expanded Hangar Bays and managing a flight of 4 X-Wing Squadrons with Wedge (and Tallon in the mix). Absolute anti-fighter superiority and excellent damage against ships over the course of the game.

We were playing on Contested Outpost, so I threw the AFMK2 forward to prevent the Imperial player from capturing in in the first couple of turns, so most of the dogfights took place within 1. And they greatly helped to ensure the X-Wings would survive and keep punching.

[BigBearCDN 53]

I hadnt thought of double tapping Dutch. Nice tip thx

[Green Squadron 3 81]

Well i now think about dropping Gunnery Team which will give me 279 points (so 21 free points left) and i will add 2 Intel Officers... quite handy with my Xi17's and leave me with 7 points initiative bid:) 

[MoffZen 760]

I hadnt thought of double tapping Dutch. Nice tip thx

 

No worries ! Adar really brings out the Aces because they're that good. If you don't have any, then he's a nice upgrade but as optimized

[Corellian Corvette 1,733]

Looking at this list again after this long time, I think it needs a third ship (cr90a or b) to help with activation and prevent them from just gunning for your two whales and sacrificing a few ships to table you.

(also interesting enough on the online vassal forum tourney, all the lists with dodonna were filtered out of the top 8 by round 2)

[Green Squadron 3 81]

Well played in the TOP 8 of that turnament my last fight was against 4 Gladiators... killed 2 of the buggers and severly damaged the 3rd but my whales didn't survied... any way learned some stuff the list is good but you need to play it smart:) 

[Green Squadron 3 81]

Ok i just came back from a turnament i took the following list:

 

[ REBEL FLEET (297 points)
1 • Assault Frigate Mark II B - Garm Bel Iblis - Gunnery Team - Advanced Projectors - Enhanced Armament (120)
2 • Assault Frigate Mark II B - Intel Officer - Flight Controllers - Advanced Projectors - XI7 Turbolasers (97)
3 • X-wing Squadron (13)
4 • X-wing Squadron (13)
5 • X-wing Squadron (13)
6 • X-wing Squadron (13)
7 • B-wing Squadron (14)
8 • B-wing Squadron (14)
9 • Objectives - Advanced Gunnery - Contested Outpost - Superior Positions (0)

 

Finished 3rd with 19 points and 146 MOV... 

 

I Game (5:5)

Was against VSD II with Tarkin I EA and something 2 GSD II with exp. lunchers and one of them was Demolisher. We played Contested Outpost with me as the 2nd player. 

The game ended 5:5 with small point difference in my favor... I lost my flagship and 2 squadrons he lost his VSD II but i had more victory tokens... i was unlucky becouse i had Demolisher on 1 Hull point left but rolled a blank and accuracy when i took the last shoot

 

II Game (7:3)

This time i was playing Advanced Gunnery me as 2nd player... my opponent had 3 x VSD II with Tarkin and one of them was Dominator with Enchanced Armament and Issard. I deplyed in such way that Demolisher was on the other side of enemy formation... the game was fun i punded 2 VSD's into submission with combination of my battery salvos and squadron strafing run's and didn't lose a single ship in combat... but i was so clumsy that i flew my flagship out of the table    

 

III Game (7:3)

This time i ended up playing against rebels... AF MK II A (Gallant Haven) with some upgrades and Neb-B escort frigate (Redemption) Wedge and 2 other X wings, Tycho, A-wing, Y-Wing, B-Wing. I flew my whales around his formation and i was able to hit the enemy ships from both sides. While fighters furballed in the middle... lost all my squadrons except one X- Wing but i was able to take Wedge, X-wing and B-wing with me. While my flagship was able to jump on the Neb-B from the side and blast it out of existance. We were playing Precision Strike and i was the 1st Player. I was able to bag 3 victiory tokens while my opponent got only 1... my mov was 80 something points... but tell me if i flew into the asteroid and was awarded a crit hit did my opponent supposed to grab a vistory token from the objective???

 

 

Also i have a small rules question when i have an AF II with Paragon title and i shoot at something that was already shoot at do i add this black die without Range restrictions???

Edited September 13, 2015 by Green Squadron 3

[Green Squadron 3 81]

And here is the upgraded list...

 

[ REBEL FLEET (296 points)
1 • Assault Frigate Mark II B - Garm Bel Iblis - Gunnery Team - Advanced Projectors - Enhanced Armament - Paragon (125)
2 • Assault Frigate Mark II B - Raymus Antilles - Advanced Projectors - XI7 Turbolasers (91)
3 • X-wing Squadron (13)
4 • X-wing Squadron (13)
5 • X-wing Squadron (13)
6 • B-wing Squadron (14)
7 • B-wing Squadron (14)
8 • X-wing Squadron (13)

[Green Squadron 3 81]

Ok just got a confirmation that Massing at Sullust will be held here on Sunday the 4th of  October... so i need to figure out what list should i take... the one above needs to be changed since i need intel officer on the 2nd Gruppie... its more efficient this way. I really liked how the list worked on the sunday turnament but Paragon might help to do some more damage. Also im thinking about my fighters composition B-wings will stay for sure as they are real killers. But if i swith X-wings to A-wings i will get counter on my fighters and will save 8 points for some additional upgrades 

[Rogue Three 62]

And here is the upgraded list...

 

[ REBEL FLEET (296 points)

1 • Assault Frigate Mark II B - Garm Bel Iblis - Gunnery Team - Advanced Projectors - Enhanced Armament - Paragon (125)

2 • Assault Frigate Mark II B - Raymus Antilles - Advanced Projectors - XI7 Turbolasers (91)

3 • X-wing Squadron (13)

4 • X-wing Squadron (13)

5 • X-wing Squadron (13)

6 • B-wing Squadron (14)

7 • B-wing Squadron (14)

8 • X-wing Squadron (13)

 

Wouldn't it be better if you placed Gunnery team on the other guppy? otherwise you won't be able to use the Paragon title.

[Green Squadron 3 81]

Hmmmm if i understand Paragon Title correctly when i shoot at something that Paragon already shoot at this round i get to add a black dice??? or should i read it that if Paragon shoots at something already shoot at by my different starship or squadron then i get the black dice??? Also i still think about those XI17 turbolasers on the other gruppie maybe i should just add enchanced armament...