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JaceBraddock

Lore checks and learning new force powers

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I am about to start a campaign in F&D and I gave my character two skill ranks in knowledge lore. He is a padawan of a master seeking out Jedi relics and knowledge to help restore the Jedi order in the shadow of the empires rule. Also in the Lore skill description says if a character wants to learn a new force technique he must make a lore check. I have been searching the forums and no body seems to be asking the question. Is this something that is required to actually obtain new force powers in the game? Are people ignoring it? What are your thoughts?

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Never noticed that we have just been buying powers from ones we had from char creation I don't think anyone has tried to learn a new force power

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Totally missed that as well.  If the player wants a new power, I like them to justify it narratively, e.g.: just spending a lot of time meditating, but otherwise they're free to pick it.

 

But it does lend some use to the Lore skill, which I think was missing, so I think I'll switch to it now.  Once one player in the party learns it, maybe they can teach it to others at a lower difficulty.

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The joys of learning a new system!  My players and I also missed this.

 

While it does add utility to the Lore skill, I agree with whafrog that if someone else in the party has a force power, you could at the least "compare notes" to get a reduction to the difficulty, and having access to a more powerful mentor (Someone who survived Order 66, for example) or a holocron might allow the roll to be skipped.

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I honestly don't see the point. If you fail the roll, wait a bit and do it again. The only thing the roll adds (potentially) is wasted time. Advantages, threats, triumphs, and despairs don't do anything on a "Learn the Force" check, so it seems to me to be a "lets roll the dice so we can roll the dice."

 

Now, If I could spend 3 advantages to cut the cost by 5 XP, or a triumph to get a free/reduced upgrade? Sure, I'd see a dice roll necessary. But as it stands, let 'em spend the XP and be done with it.

 

Than again, I'm one of those people who don't require anything else besides XP for players to learn Force powers or talents, so if you have pre-reqs for learning things besides XP take my opinion with a grain of salt.

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Never noticed that either. That may be for future proofing. At this point, I wouldn't allow it just as I wouldn't allow a check to learn a free talent or using credits to go to a Jedi Dojo and learn a lightsaber technique. That's what your XP represents. When you spend XP, it represents your character consciously or subconsciously advancing themselves over a length of time. This would include researching into ancient Force traditions.

 

The line referenced in the OP could be a suggestion for the GM to not allow certain Force powers unless they spent some time and made a few checks to learn them or find a master.  In that case, I would simply allow  a character to purchase that power, but they must still spend the appropriate amount of XP.

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I honestly don't see the point. If you fail the roll, wait a bit and do it again.

 

You don't have to allow that, I wouldn't.  I'd put some kind of time limit on it representing research before they could try again.  If that's a week of in-game time, or another session, or whatever, there's no reason to have to allow subsequent rolls.

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I honestly don't see the point. If you fail the roll, wait a bit and do it again.

 

You don't have to allow that, I wouldn't.  I'd put some kind of time limit on it representing research before they could try again.  If that's a week of in-game time, or another session, or whatever, there's no reason to have to allow subsequent rolls.

Still, though, a week in-game or the next session is a subsequent roll. After enough rolls they will succeed. So I just skip the rolls and go straight for the XP.

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Thank you for bringing this up. I think that this is just a guide to follow as there isn't a structured chart for it. Will I use it in my rebellion game of course, this makes a lot of sense as a player character has to be able to decipher ancient texts and understand what someone means when they are talking (example: someone says that man is so gay. current time it means that he prefers men to women. a couple of years ago it meant that he was happy) 

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Thanks everyone. It was just one of those things where I noticed no body was asking the question of why it was in that skill description. My GM and I also had some discussions about it and he wants to use it more in a manner of learning or discovering new force powers that aren't in the book. The EU has a lot of material about strange force abilities that don't exactly fit in the listed force powers.

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About the only thing I'd require the Lore check for in terms of learning Force powers would be if the PC is trying to "figure out" a brand new power that they otherwise wouldn't have access to and don't have a ready means to learn it from someone.

 

For instance, a PC wants to learn the Battle Meditation power after bumping her Force Rating up to 2, but nobody in the party has that power, and she she doesn't have easy access to a holocron or mentor to teach her said power.  In that case, I'd ask for a Know (Lore) check to see if she can piece together enough information as well as sorting fact from fiction (hard thing to do in the Dark Times and Rebellion Era) to be able learn the power; the difficulty wouldn't be horrendously harsh, probably a # of purples equal to required Force Rating plus 1 (so 3 purple for Battle Meditation).  If the group has one of the starter holocrons that's offered as a group resource, I'd probably give the PC a boost die or two on their check.

 

Of course, if this same PC wanted to learn the Foresee power, and a fellow party member has that power and is willing to teach her, then no Know (Lore) check would be required as she's got a teacher on hand to at least pass along the basics.  How she develops Foresee from that point is up to her, and could go in an entirely different direction than the party member who taught her.

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The passage (Page 132) says "...or attempting to master a Force technique...". (Emphasis mine)

 

Agreed. If he's not trying to master the technique [buy the Mastery for that power] he shouldn't have to roll.

Edited by pnewman15

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I think this is one we can all handle differently and be ok.  As our group has traditionally long campaigns (years instead of months), this will certainly factor into it.  I was handling it all narratively but having a Lore roll makes sense as well as it handles how much the character has mastered of the Force power they have never used before.  Regardless of if someone could teach it to them or not, they have to internalize the teaching.  If they fail the roll, they are still learning it and we have another episode.  I'll discuss it with them, but I think they will agree that they should spend the XP for the mechanical effect of beginning to learn the new Force Power.  It will take them several sessions to get to a point where they are able to think of using it in combat or in a reliable manner in every day usage.  I will describe their learning process to them in interesting detail.  They will roll against Lore and when they accumulate enough success, I will let them add the Force Power to their character sheet.  

 

My game group strongly subscribes to the Heinz methodology in our gaming.  "Good things come to those who wait."  Yes, it drives you crazy while you are waiting, but it makes getting the new thing so much sweeter when you are anticipating it.  Not everything should be an instant reward, and this is an excellent place for paced delivery for character growth and development.

 

Not saying you can't microwave your characters, but the crock-pot character is so much more memorable and flavorful!

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