a wing and Chardaan Refit

[Parravon 5,217]

I was about to ask this as well because it sounds like the OP is just picking ships and fully loading them without using the points system.

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

But i always use the slots i giving so i didn't feel it bad like ever one says ewing bad i found it a great ship and how is ordinance bad but now better ordinance seems to be so hit and miss and its great against big ships and cr90

Ordnance en masse is worth it. 

That is to say, an Alpha Strike fleet, in which you have several ships, each with one missile or torpedo, can remove a single target in the first round of combat.

 

If they use Assault Missiles, they instead remove an entire Swarm, rather than a single large ship.

 

 

Lieutenant Blount

+ Veteran's Instincts

+ X-23 S-Thead Tracers (available in Wave 8)

 

Bandit Squadron Pilot

+ Concussion Missiles

 

Bandit Squadron Pilot

+ Concussion Missiles

 

Bandit Squadron Pilot

+ Concussion Missiles

 

Bandit Squadron Pilot

+ Concussion Missiles

 

Bandit Squadron Pilot

+ Concussion Missiles

 

This fleet makes one gamble: After I loose these Concussion Missiles (for an expectation of 18.4 damage, total) at your most expensive ship, my 6 Z96 swarm will be better than the shattered remains of your fleet.

 

THAT is the value of ordnance. It's investment in assassination. 

 

 

 

The Bomber has 4 slots for Torpedoes and Missiles. That is not an invitation for you to fill all four, but rather to equip two of any combination, if you wish.

 

The Scimitar Squadron Pilot, with no upgrades at all, has the best survivability to cost ratio in the entire game.

Adding cost to increase damage acts to negate that, so you need to gain more use than you lose thereby.

[frogy84 8]

I guess that makes sense. but so most players really don't take that stuff i feel then your lose out ships abilities

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

Again, it depends on what you want your ship to do. All ships have a few roles they can be good at, some more than others.

 

So just because, to use your example, A-Wings have a missile slot, doesn't mean they are ONLY good with missiles. It all depends on what you want the list to do, and how well you think your chosen list can do it.

 

Do you want to get behind the enemy and avoid their shots? Do you want to go head-to-head and slug it out? Do you want your ships to compliment each other, or do you want them to run more solitary?

 

All up to you. There are (in terms of the game as a whole) very few 'must include' upgrades for certain ships. And even then, it's still up to your personal taste and choice.

[frogy84 8]

Normal don't u go head to head then spend 2hrs moving around trying to to hit each other so missile give u a chance to get more attack dice at range

[Parravon 5,217]

Normally a 100 point game shouldn't go for 2 hours. And missiles are a one-shot weapon. Once you've fired it, you don't have it anymore. Some missiles are better than others, but if you base your game around using A-wings then it's going to take some time. With only 2 attack dice, they can be pretty weak on the attack.

Try a Blue Sqn or Dagger Sqn B-wing for some more punch. Even an X-wing maybe. The E-wing is expensive, but can be quite offensive. And just because they have upgrade slots doesn't mean you have to fill them. Use the points system and you should get a fairly balanced fight.

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

Throw us an example of your usual fleet, and your opponent's, and we'll help you further from there.

[frogy84 8]

I use points i just normal only get 2our 3 ships at 100pts so i been playing bigger games

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

100 points is the standard. It's what 90% of the tournaments and events are.

 

It's why everyone in this thread has been talking the way they have. With 100 points, you have to really think about whether you want more ships or more expensive ships or more upgrades. For example, the list I've done best with had 6 ships at 100 points. Really didn't need upgrades apart from on the ones I wanted to stay alive longer/do more for the list as a whole.

 

And I think your main issue (as was mine when I started) was knowing where the moves will put you each time. It's hard to judge how far a bank will take you when you first start, for example. Once you get used to the moves, you'll find that you have ships in your sights way more, meaning more chances of killing stuff.

Edited August 23, 2015 by InterceptorMad

[Parravon 5,217]

I played a tournament a while ago where one Rebel player tried 5 Green Sqn A-wings, each with Chardaan refit and Outmaneuver for 20 points each. Simple, and fast list that was fun to play. Not a missile in sight. You don't need to load each ship to the maximum, and if you don't, you will have points for more than just 3 ships.

[frogy84 8]

How does 5 awing do anything with only 2 attack it like your never going to hurt anything. i mean i just play a lost with 3 ma3 interceptor against 2bwings got my butt kicked

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

Because you have to learn how each ship flies and how it's good. Each ship isn't as good if you fly them all the same and try the same tactics. A-Wings and Interceptors are fast and can get behind ships and stay out of the enemy's firing arc entirely, but are brittle if caught by lots of red dice. B-Wings and Bombers are tanky and can put out a lot of hurt, but they don't move and defend as well. You have to know what to do with each type of ship and what upgrades really suit them.

 

To use an example form the game you are used to, you wouldn't try to win a game of 40k in combat with Tau

[frogy84 8]

my normal 2 list i been using lately

 

 

99 points
 

PILOTS

Darth Vader [Cluster Missiles, Veteran Instincts, Shield Upgrade] (38)

Soontir Fel [Royal Guard TIE, Lightning Reflexes, Stealth Device, Hull Upgrade] (34)

Royal Guard Pilot [Lone Wolf, Royal Guard TIE, Stealth Device] (27)

 

[uNNAMED SQUADRON]

Click to change squadron details

 

100 points

 

PILOTS

Rear Admiral Chiraneau [Veteran Instincts, Proximity Mines, Mercenary Copilot, Recon Specialist, Gunner, Proton Torpedoes, Dauntless, Shield Upgrade] (70)

“Echo” (30)

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

See for example, that Decimator/Phantom list needs the upgrades spread over both ships, rather than just the Deci. The deci can survive better than the Phantom, so doesn't need as much. Whereas a naked Phantom, even a named one, isn't as good as one with a few upgrades.

 

So like, I'd have the Advance Cloak and Veteran Instincts on Echo for sure.

Edited August 23, 2015 by InterceptorMad

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

How does 5 awing do anything with only 2 attack it like your never going to hurt anything. 

5 A-Wings toss 15 dice at Range 1, and 10 at Range 2-3. Concentrate your fire, my friend.

The "Outmaneuver" Elite Talent means your opponent rolls 1 fewer agility dice if you're not in their firing arc.

Suffice it to say, it works.

 

 

i mean i just play a lost with 3 ma3 interceptor against 2bwings got my butt kicked

M3A Interceptors are extremely difficult to make work, and should have either an Ion Cannon or a Heavy Laser Cannon (ONLY) equipped.

B-Wings are extremely efficient on their own, and have superior pilot abilities to boot.

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

 

PILOTS

Darth Vader [Cluster Missiles, Veteran Instincts, Shield Upgrade] (38)

Soontir Fel [Royal Guard TIE, Lightning Reflexes, Stealth Device, Hull Upgrade] (34)

Royal Guard Pilot [Lone Wolf, Royal Guard TIE, Stealth Device] (27)

Vader doesn't need Cluster Missiles: His double-action is less efficient with them, and they're not that good on their own.

Vader doesn't need Veteran's Instincts: He's already PS 9, so he'd only gain an advantage against other ships that have equipped Veteran's Instincts.

Vader doesn't need a Shield Upgrade: He's already incredibly tanky, so this only serves to bring down his survival-to-cost ratio. 

The TIE Advanced is overcosted in its natural state: Get it the Title from the Raider expansion if you really want it to see play, even with Lord Vader. Until those fixes were released, this was the worst ship in the game.

 

Soontir Fel doesn't need Lighting Reflexes: He's already incredibly mobile, and has a more synergistic option for this slot. (Push the Limit

Soontir Fel doesn't need a Hull Upgrade: There's a better choice for this slot. (Autothrusters)

 

Royal Guard Pilot shouldn't have Lone Wolf: Give it to a better closer.

Royal Guard Pilot doesn't need the Pilot Skill: Likely as good as the Saber Squad Pilot in your hands, for less cost.

 

 

PILOTS

Rear Admiral Chiraneau [Veteran Instincts, Proximity Mines, Mercenary Copilot, Recon Specialist, Gunner, Proton Torpedoes, Dauntless, Shield Upgrade] (70)

“Echo” (30)

 

Chiraneau doesn't need the upgrades that I've struck through. Re-evaluate.

The TIE Phantom is a rare ship that requires some upgrades to be useful. Veteran's Instincts + Advanced Cloak, for instance.

It is also incredibly difficult to learn how to play, as being able to see your options with Decloak requires some substantial practice.

Edited August 23, 2015 by DraconPyrothayan

[frogy84 8]

i never under stood use of ion like i do one damge and push you one. i mean i think my main problem is lack of damage you can putt out. 

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

Note: Soontir Fel's better upgrades. Look for these kinds of synergies.

 

Elite Talent: Push the Limit.

This is a top-tier upgrade on most ships, but on the Interceptor, it's absolutely sublime. Using the double-action for defense, or more often, to boost and/or barrel-roll into a position where you can attack them without them attacking you, make it a monster. 
The stress, while normally bad, is offset by the Interceptor's overabundance of Green maneuvers.

On Baron Fel, he has additional synergy, in that he receives a free Focus Token from getting stressed, meaning he gets up to 3 die modifiers a turn, unless he goes for the more powerful Repositional actions (!)

 

Modification: Autothrusters

Baron Soontir Fel has an awful lot of mobility in his kit, particularly once you're Pushing the Limit to both Boost and Barrel-Roll after you've executed your maneuver. 

As you are PS 9, and performing your maneuvers and actions well after the vast majority of the ships in the game, you can B+BR with full knowledge of where they are, and where they can shoot.

If you are up against a ship that ignores its firing arc (Like the Decimator or Falcon), these give you automatic survival bonuses when you outfly your opponent (Which, again, is easy for you).

If you are up against a ship that likes to Joust (like a B-Wing), and you can't get out of arc, you are fairly likely to be able to get into Range 3 instead, getting that automatic survivability.

 

Ultimately, the 3 upgrades (These two + your Stealth Device) lead Soontir Fel to be a very difficult ship to take down.

[frogy84 8]

how is the tie advanced over costed i feel it fine if you give vader up grades 

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

i never under stood use of ion like i do one damge and push you one. i mean i think my main problem is lack of damage you can putt out. 

Ion's worth is that your opponent's position is KNOWN for the following turn.

That is to say, if you've Ioned your opponent in one turn, the following turn you should be able to attack it with all of your ships, which usually result in its death.

 

The more ships you field, the better your concentration of fire, the more damage your opponents' ships take per round, the more wins you'll get.

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

how is the tie advanced over costed i feel it fine if you give vader up grades 

Its damage output is too low for its price, even with its survivability. By around 4-5 points.

 

The title gives you a 4 point discount on a Sensor of your choice; one of the most powerful upgrade slots in the game.

The same expansion gives you a 5 point Tie-Advanced-Only Sensor (4 point discount means you're only paying 1 for it) that gives you extra damage for essentially free.

 

 

 

In other words, if you fly 5 TIE Advanceds with no upgrades (105 points), and I fly the same number of X-Wings with no upgrades (105 points), I win the vast majority of the time.

If you fly 4 TIE Advanceds with no upgrades (84 points), and I fly 7 TIE Fighters with no upgrades (84 points), I win the vast majority of the time.

Et c. Et c.

 

 

As far as the Upgrades are concerned, it has Missiles, Modifications, and the occasional Elite Talent to use.

Of these, Missiles are historically considered overcosted in their own right, Modifications have a single stand-out winner, and Elite Talents do great things for good ships, but mediocre things for bad ones.

 

And remember: Paying a premium to add more to a ship that is already overcosted is typically a bad idea. 

4 TIE Advanceds, with Cluster Missiles and Shield Upgrades, vs the same cost in TIE Fighter (9 of them, with 8 points of Pilot Skill to purchase) will lose every single game.

[frogy84 8]

Ya i have the card but don't understand it really so it cost the same but u get something free yaa

[StevenO 2,996]

PILOTS

Darth Vader [Cluster Missiles, Veteran Instincts, Shield Upgrade] (38)

Soontir Fel [Royal Guard TIE, Lightning Reflexes, Stealth Device, Hull Upgrade] (34)

Royal Guard Pilot [Lone Wolf, Royal Guard TIE, Stealth Device] (27)

 

 

100 points

 

PILOTS

Rear Admiral Chiraneau [Veteran Instincts, Proximity Mines, Mercenary Copilot, Recon Specialist, Gunner, Proton Torpedoes, Dauntless, Shield Upgrade] (70)

“Echo” (30)

 

I believe DraconPyrothan has already gone over these although I may disagree slightly.

 

Vader doesn't need all of that other stuff.  Now I will admit that the Cluster can give him more damage against that Decimator those rare some points you rarely want to spend.  When it comes to modifications the favorite for Vader is the Engine Upgrade to turn him into a better arc-dodger.  Consider this, not getting shot at will likely prevent far more damage than the shield upgrade could absorb.

 

With Fel it's that Lightning Reflexes that need to go.  PtL is the way to go here and will likely give you much more maneuverability over the course of the game.  While Auto-Thrusters certainly are great on the Interceptor I'll say the Hull Upgrade, or even a Shield Upgrade, are not complete wastes although the AT is usually better.

 

When it comes to that Decimator/Phantom list I agree with stripping down the Decimator and putting something on Echo.  VI on Echo would be nice as then you have two PS 8 ships and get the freedom to choose the order they go in.  Recon Specialist is pretty much a waste on a Decimator who generally has only an attack to spend them on; the Gunner certainly doesn't make up the difference especially when you consider the RAC already has attack modifications built into it.  I don't think I've ever heard of anyone using the torpedo slot on the Decimator; maybe it will get used for Extra Munitions to get two uses out of a bomb but that's assuming a bomb to start with.  RAC is a ship that actions aren't as essential for so the Dauntless isn't as useful here.  IF you were going to use the shield upgrade it really should go on the Phantom as that is 25% more life to it vs. 6% more life to a Decimator.

[frogy84 8]

How's a phantom hard to use you give up ur manvore to decloack

[Parravon 5,217]

You don't give up your maneuver at all. If you're cloaked at the start of the turn, you can decloak, then when it's your turn to activate, you can make your maneuver. And if you have an Advanced Cloaking Device (which is a must), you can immediately cloak after you've attacked, making it harder for your opponent to shoot you.

 

A naked Phantom will soon become cannon fodder. As others have stated, most of the upgrades you've put on Vader aren't needed. One of my favourites is to give him an Engine Upgrade, then you'll have him boosting and barrel rolling each turn, which can make him just as agile as a TIE Interceptor.

 

Soontir Fel with Push the Limit is a match made in heaven. Like Vader, he can boost and barrel roll each turn, and it will give him a stress token, which will also give him a focus token. What's not to love about that? Plus with the amount of green on his dial, that stress token doesn't do much to him.

 

Ion weapons may not sound that good when you look at the damage they do, but by removing the opponent's ability to plan a maneuver, you know exactly where they are going to be next turn, so you can line your ships up for a full on attack.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Parravon