Crackshot

[Funkleton 2,510]

presumably this will work similarly to the errata-ed version of accuracy corrector.

 

The timing will be during the modify defence dice step, before the defender modifies their dice, and as the evade result is cancelled rather than modified it cannot be modified again.

 

sound about right ?

[Bloodstripe Baron 510]

Canceling dice occurs after both sets of defense dice are rolled and modified in the compare dice step.

[Funkleton 2,510]

Canceling dice occurs after both sets of defense dice are rolled and modified in the compare dice step.

 

I'd normally agree - but that's not the case for Accuracy Corrector - so we have a situation where dice are sometimes cancelled during the compare dice step, and sometimes during the modify dice step.

[Pandademic 425]

 

Canceling dice occurs after both sets of defense dice are rolled and modified in the compare dice step.

 

I'd normally agree - but that's not the case for Accuracy Corrector - so we have a situation where dice are sometimes cancelled during the compare dice step, and sometimes during the modify dice step.

 

 

Right, but Accuracy Corrector was specifically errata'd to work in the Modify Attack Dice step. Until Crackshot receives a similar errata, it should be resolved at the start of the Compare Results step.

 

edit: Just reread the first post and realized you're well aware of the errata. So I guess the question is, why do you think that Crackshot would need the same change? As a one-shot ability, I don't think it's particularly abusive for it to cancel after the defender's dice are modified.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Pandademic

[Funkleton 2,510]

Pandademic - if the precedent for upgrade cards that change the result of a dice pool is that they happen during the modify dice step, I'm wondering why it wouldn't be subject to the same general ruling.

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

Pandademic - if the precedent for upgrade cards that change the result of a dice pool is that they happen during the modify dice step, I'm wondering why it wouldn't be subject to the same general ruling.

Because it wasn't a general ruling about the timing of dice-canceling effects, it was an erratum for Accuracy Corrector in particular.

[WWHSD 9,273]

 As a one-shot ability, I don't think it's particularly abusive for it to cancel after the defender's dice are modified.

 

As a one-shot ability it would probably never get taken if you had to use it before the defender modified their dice.

[Parravon 5,217]

I don't think we can use Accuracy Corrector as a true precedent here as it's adding results, which is why its timing is during the modify step.

With Crack Shot, there's no modifying or adding results. You're canceling, so it's quite possible it could be used in the compare results step.

[WWHSD 9,273]

I don't think we can use Accuracy Corrector as a true precedent here as it's adding results, which is why its timing is during the modify step.

With Crack Shot, there's no modifying or adding results. You're canceling, so it's quite possible it could be used in the compare results step.

 

The larger reason I don't think Accuracy Corrector should be used as a precedent is that FFG chose to errata the card as opposed to updating the rules. Updating the rules makes more sense if they intended a wider change.

[Funkleton 2,510]

Ok I'm obviously overthinking this

Thanks for the reality ( of playing with plastic spaceships) check :-)

[Funkleton 2,510]

With that cleared up,  Crackshot can be used to cancel evade results generated from evade tokens,  as these are treated as dice results that can only be cancelled (FAQ page 5)

[WWHSD 9,273]

With that cleared up,  Crackshot can be used to cancel evade results generated from evade tokens,  as these are treated as dice results that can only be cancelled (FAQ page 5)

Yup.

[phild0 1,735]

FFG will have like 3 days to update the FAQ if their intent was for Crack Shot to work during "Attacker Modifies Defense Dice" step.

 

Otherwise, I am pretty certain it occurs during Dice Cancellation step.

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

Anyone near Frank Brooks today want to get this cleared up?

[ID X T 820]

Anyone near Frank Brooks today want to get this cleared up?

My reading of the new rules is that there is no longer a dice cancellation step, meaning Crack Shot has to be used when the Attacker modifies Defence dice.  That means that Crack Shot got significant nerf, it can no longer cancel auto thrusters, evade tokens, focus turned to evades, etc.  It can only cancel a natural evade roll.  Still ok, but way less useful.  

 

Is my reading correct? 

[shakedown47 86]

The new rules reference solves it for us.

 

"5. Modify Defense dice. The attacker can resolve any card abilities that allow him to modify the defense dice..."

 

So yes you're right, in that Crackshot only negates a natural Evade roll. Also, even though the language is slightly different from Evade, I'm fairly certain a Huge ship section that has a Reinforce token would still get its free evade result. Even though it's a one-shot card it's still a very good 1pt. upgrade on a ship that might not care about VI (Black Sun Ace, Black Squadron Pilot, etc.)

[kraedin 741]

Crackshot isn't a card ability that modifies attack dice. It doesn't add, change, or re-roll dice.

[WWHSD 9,273]

Canceling results is not dice modification per the new rules:

Modifying Dice

Players can modify dice by spending focus, evade, and target lock tokens and by resolving card abilities. Dice can be modified in the following ways:

• Add: To add a die result, place an unused die displaying the result next to the rolled dice. A die added in this way is treated as a normal die for all purposes and can be modified and canceled.

• Change: To change a die result, rotate the die so that its faceup side displays the new result.

• Reroll: To reroll a die result, pick up the die and roll it again.

The new rules make it unclear where you would apply Crackshot, since they don't tell you when to apply effects that cancel dice and Crackshot doesn't specify timing of its own. Given the absence of any sort of guidance in the rules or on the card, it seems like the logical time to use this card would be during the compare results step since that is when results are being canceled.

[WWHSD 9,273]

Crackshot loses almost all of its appeal if you have to burn it before knowing what the defense roll is. If it applies in the compare results step it has an effect even if it doesn't get spent. Assuming Crackshot continues to work the same way under the new rules as it does under the old, it puts you opponent into a situation that they need to gamble on whether or not you'll spend the card.

For most ships that are defending against a ship with Crackshot, the correct way to spend tokens is to spend as if Crackshot wasn't a factor. It minimizes that effect of Crackshot and the sooner you can make your opponent spend it, the better.

Some ships will need to spend their tokens assuming that their opponent will always play Crackshot because they can't afford to be wrong. Ships with stealth device, or ships on their last hull point fall in this category.

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

So hopefully it'll be in this FAQ that's probably dropping next week then, right? You're right that the gulf in value between the two different rulings is enormous. Forcing Fel to always beat your roll by 1 is really good.

[ID X T 820]

Right, I can see how it would work in the compare results step and maintain the status quo.  Here's hoping for clarification in the FAQ soon.  It does feel like it will need a timing trigger inserted into the text though via errata.

[Amraam01 154]

I don't think we can use Accuracy Corrector as a true precedent here as it's adding results, which is why its timing is during the modify step.

With Crack Shot, there's no modifying or adding results. You're canceling, so it's quite possible it could be used in the compare results

I agree, doesnt modify dice, just cancel a result.  

[ID X T 820]

 

I don't think we can use Accuracy Corrector as a true precedent here as it's adding results, which is why its timing is during the modify step.

With Crack Shot, there's no modifying or adding results. You're canceling, so it's quite possible it could be used in the compare results

I agree, doesnt modify dice, just cancel a result.  

 

Bear in mind Accuracy Corrector was errataed to add the timing, hence why it works in the modify attack dice step.

 

It is possible that they may errata Crack Shot to add explicit timing, when it would be I'm still not sure.  

[WWHSD 9,273]

Well, FFG just turned an interesting 1 point EPT into a "meh" expendable.

From the new FAQ:

 

Crack Shot
Crack Shot must be used during the “Modify Defense Dice” step, before the defender modifies his dice.

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

Well, FFG just turned an interesting 1 point EPT into a "meh" expendable.

From the new FAQ:

 

Crack Shot

Crack Shot must be used during the “Modify Defense Dice” step, before the defender modifies his dice.

Eh. Still almost as good; just can't be used to token-bait anymore.