Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Flail-Bot

Most Dangerous Chaos God?

Recommended Posts

Debating letting my characters, at the end of a massive story arc, kill one of the chaos gods.

 

Say you could choose to eliminate one Chaos god, which would be the most beneficial for Mankind to have removed?

 

Which god is the greatest threat to the continued existence of Mankind?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would personally think Tzeench myself. They're all dangerous, of course, but while (imo) Slaanesh is the most frightening of the Chaos Gods, Tzeench is likely to be the most insidious. Because of Tzeench's preference for winding, complex plots, he's the most likely to be the subtle cancer, gnawing away at a planet until it breaks. He's the one most likely to have the patience to wait a thousand years for a plan to see fruition and smite the Imperium. He's also the most likely to think REALLY long term, compared to the other gods.

 

While the other Chaos Gods are capable of this of course, it's less common for them.

 

Khorne plays right into the Imperium's hands most of the time, trying to damage his foes through head-on battle.

 

While my GM has given me new respect for how subtle Nurgle can be, most of the time, his servants are not very hard to notice, as they're generally walking around, with boils bubbling out of their faces and vomiting green bile.

 

Slaanesh can be subtle, and vicious, but he's also prone to fits of rage or irrationality, which may give away his hands. On top of that, (imho) he's more likely to think in the short term than Tzeench. Slaanesh hits a system, when you clean up his mess, his mess is actually probably cleaned up.

 

Tzeench though... sometimes for Tzeench hitting a system was the point all along. Even if you defeat Tzeench in a military victory, he may have won anyways, because the military war was a front for his real damaging objective. The weaves of Tzeench's plan, the multilayered nature of them, and his perchance for thinking long term, probably makes him the most dangerous Chaos God to the Imperium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kill a chaos god? That's an interesting idea. I would like to make a couple points about that part of it rather than choose which one I think is more powerful than any other, which I don't even think is a useful conversation even though it is a fun one. First of all, any god is, at it's core nothing me than an idea. Ideas are immune to death (not the same as being immortal), they can only be forgotten. Ideas have no bodies to kill, and any god that had a corporeal body would be weaker for it. It would be limited to existing in one place at a time, it's body probably could be killed. I don't know how something like killing a god might be pulled off. Chaos gods each encompass reflections of the inhabitants of the galaxy, in evidence because they are fed by the thoughts and feelings of humanity, so killing a chaos god would probably entail destroying either a significant amount of humanity or changing human nature in some fundamental way. Those are my problems with the idea of killing a chaos god. I am intrigued with the concept though. The Emperor completely destroyed Horus do that even his soul or spirit or whatever couldn't be resurrected. Since this is apparently possible, maybe it would be possible for acolytes to utterly destroy a particularly powerful daemon. Not just banish it back to the warp, but they could find some way to end the daemons existence. it should be incredibly difficult to find, to perform, and should have a price so steep that each acolyte should not want to pay, and it should have some horifice sidea effects, possibly (probably) heretical ones. If successful, there would be a noticeable effect. If the baddest bloodthirster in the sector gets eliminated, wars and violent crime go down. For the main keeper of secrets in the sector gets taken out it could be that poverty across the sector gets significantly reduced and people seem genuinely happier and me helpful and friendly to each other. If a great unclean one gets offed, perhaps hospital admittance goes way down, or entire classes of diseases disappear overnight and people seem healthier and happier. If a lord of change is defeated maybe the pandemonium lessens to a significant degree. Whatever the changes, they would be likely to have some unintended consequences some of which might be pretty uncomfortable. Is important to note that these could be subtle changes for game play but significant over the course of a campaign. They would also be temporary, but for warp entities that could mean a couple thousand years with limited presence from one particular god. Another would move in our develop from the psychic emissions of the populace. That would be a huge win for the inquisition anyway, and the warband would be infamous. Revered by radicals for proving the efficacy of their methods, hunted by puritans for the blasphemy of using psychics against the warp but well in their way to their inevitable promotion to Inquisitor Lord. Just some thoughts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since this thread has become active and is a copy of one in general discussion, I'll just copy the post I made in the other one

 

I'd remove Slaanesh. Not because I'm willing to say that one of the four is more powerful than the others, but because of how likely they are to be replaced by a similar god. The other three were created by the various species of the galaxy being themselves. Destroy them and a replacement is likely to form in much the same way.

 

But Slaanesh was created by the heights of the excess of the Eldar empire. Those heights of excess are not likely to be reached again, making a replacement for Slaanesh much less likely. Though not impossible.

 

 

Or you could go after Nurgle. Even though a replacement would arise, that should still give time for Isha to escape. Though the Eldar getting one of their gods back might not be good for humanity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Lionus: I agree with some of what you're saying, but I think the fundamental nature of the gods is different than what you're proposing. You say they're just ideas, which I don't agree with. They are fed by their domains in the Materium (e.g. slaughter feeds Khorne) but their existence is not unending.

 

This is backed up with fluff a few times. For example, Slaanesh was created. That's a biggie to me. Additionally, in Warhammer Fantasy, there are different chaos gods. And let's not forget Malvo or whatever, who was the anti-chaos chaos god!

 

I'm sure that Lynata could jump in here and lay the lore smackdown on this, but it probably comes down to headcanon.

 

I think you can purge a chaos god from the Warp, but not with bullets. Of course, if my characters end up doing this it won't be with guns, but with some Big Scary Ritual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you can purge a chaos god from the Warp, but not with bullets. Of course, if my characters end up doing this it won't be with guns, but with some Big Scary Ritual.

 

It was something I was wondering about myself. As you say, you can't just shoot Khorne and hope he keels over. Big Scary Ritual is definitely the way to go, but we are talking about one of the Big-4...the scale of that ritual should be insane. I'm thinking an entire solar system needs to be involved (heck, why stop at one?...have several systems involved!), perhaps something about an alignment of the planets. The sacrifice of millions (billions?) of souls is probably on the books. Thinking of books, this ritual isn't exactly going to have the Ecclesiarchy seal of approval, either.

 

...Real "one chance only" and "morally questionable" stuff should be order of the day, I think.

 

If, for example, Nurgle is the target, who put the PC's on the trail of this ritual? Was Tzeentch involved at all? He is Nurgle's rival, after all. Is it just a plot of his to condemn the PC's souls to the Warp (as well as those who die in the ritual)? What other factions are going to be interested in this once they get wind of it? Organising a mass sacrifice is no small task, others are bound to hear about it; what's their reaction going to be? Cultisits, other Inquisitorial agents, the Adeptus Astartes, the Ecclesiarchy/Ad.Ministorum, planetary rulers, Xenos races (the Eldar, particularly, might be valuable allies if Slaanesh is the chosen target...though they might also disapprove of the methods involved)...they're all going to have their own agendas when they hear about it. Definitely worth giving it a thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 (the Eldar, particularly, might be valuable allies if Slaanesh is the chosen target...though they might also disapprove of the methods involved)...they're all going to have their own agendas when they hear about it. Definitely worth giving it a thought.

The Eldar would be allies against any of the chaos gods if they think the plan would work without threatening Eldar lives. But if the god is going to be swiftly replaced, then the plan is a failure even if it can kill one of the four.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 (the Eldar, particularly, might be valuable allies if Slaanesh is the chosen target...though they might also disapprove of the methods involved)...they're all going to have their own agendas when they hear about it. Definitely worth giving it a thought.

The Eldar would be allies against any of the chaos gods if they think the plan would work without threatening Eldar lives. But if the god is going to be swiftly replaced, then the plan is a failure even if it can kill one of the four.

 

I was thinking specifically about the Fall of the Eldar and the birth of Slaanesh being a particular motivator. It might even make for an interesting side-plot if a particularly militant/racist (or just plain crazy) Exarch or Farseer takes it into his head that no "mere human" is going to take down Slaanesh; that's a job for the Eldar. It's their mess, they'll deal with it, sort of thing.

 

Heck, make it part of the main plot; some balls-to-the-wall crazy Eldar has cooked up some plan to kill Slaanesh, but doesn't have the resources or support from his people (who just think he's nuts) to carry out the plan, so he sows some seeds within the Inquisition, hinting that there's a way to kill one of the Big-Four. He then leads them on a merry chase to find the pieces of the puzzle. The closer the PC's get to finalising the ritual, the more they get the impression that this Eldar, who they may not have even met, is actually the BBEG. They then have a choice; follow the Eldar plan, killing billions of humans to kill a god, or defy the lunatic Eldar who couldn't even get his own people to follow his plan, save the billions of lives but don't kill a god (and they have to kill the crazy Eldar too, which is no mean feat...he's blatantly got to be a total Bad-A Mamajamma, if only for narrative satisfaction!).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh just kill off Slaanesh! it's what GW is doing in Age of sigmar... grumble grumble...

 

Ok, proper answer:

 

Ignoring the whole you can't actually kill a chaos god part, the one that would be best removed is...

 

If you really want to screw the eldar, kill Slaanesh : Okay this seems like madness at first but there are hints in the new harlequin codex that the laughing god has a plan to trick Slaanesh into saving the eldar. No Slaanesh, no plan!

 

Khorne is pretty good at beating up everything, including other chaos gods, so he can stay.

 

Nurgle seems like a good candidate for elimination aswell but my pick would be Tzeentch. Ofcourse killing him might be part of his plans...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Lionus: I agree with some of what you're saying, but I think the fundamental nature of the gods is different than what you're proposing. You say they're just ideas, which I don't agree with. They are fed by their domains in the Materium (e.g. slaughter feeds Khorne) but their existence is not unending.

 

This is backed up with fluff a few times. For example, Slaanesh was created. That's a biggie to me. Additionally, in Warhammer Fantasy, there are different chaos gods. And let's not forget Malvo or whatever, who was the anti-chaos chaos god!

 

 

Malal.

 

Also in age of sigmar the Horned Rat is now (sort of) part of the pantheon. (Sigh!)

 

While it's true that Slaanesh birth date is somwhere about M30 (before the Emperor's reconquest of the galaxy) there is no true time in the warp so Slaanesh has always been there.

 

It's not like this:

 

Khorne: "Bah it was a lot more fun before that Slaanesh guy/chick showed up!"

Nurgle: "But now we have a fourth player to play Bridge."

Slaanesh "Tzeentch is cheating! And who is this Malal guy?"

Tzeentch: "If you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'! And malal was a rebel god who got retconned by Games Wo-"

Khorne: "Oi! No meta fourth wall breaking stuff, it makes me head 'urt!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I somewhere read that there was a heretical faction within the Inquisition (I think it was called Ordo Hydra, or something like that) that tried to link a giant portion of humanites souls with a warp active virus to create one big psychic entity, then sacrifice them to create a Chaos god of humanity, which in turn (they hoped)  would fight the other chaos gods.

As far as I know it stems from some novel (which I haven't read, so someone more knowledgeable than me could enlighten us).

 

A similar process might be able so severly weaken a chaos god. Use a warp active virus to eradicate (or supress) the desire/wrath/fear of death/ambition in the souls of humanity and the corresponding Chaos God would suffer a big loss of power. Wich in turn could lead to the other three ganging up on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Do Gork and Mork not get invited to the chaos card games?

 

It seems like they'd be besties with Khorne.

 

Nah Khorne is angry (ofcourse) because Orks love fighting and battles but they won't worship him, so Gork and Mork can't come over on gamenights. ;)

 

 

Nah, it's not that at all; Gork, Mork and Khorne are totally besties, it's just that Slaanesh is being a ******-bag about Gork and Morks' bad habits; Orks are hardly the most refined of species and s/he just can't abide their presence (besides, they keep eating the cards thinking they're the snacks). So on Saturdays, the Big Four play cards (they can't agree on anything more competitive than Uno, even if Tzeentch keeps cheating), but on Sundays Gork, Mork and Khorne get together to play a Boffer-LARP (with chain-axes).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Do Gork and Mork not get invited to the chaos card games?

 

It seems like they'd be besties with Khorne.

 

Nah Khorne is angry (ofcourse) because Orks love fighting and battles but they won't worship him, so Gork and Mork can't come over on gamenights. ;)

 

 

Nah, it's not that at all; Gork, Mork and Khorne are totally besties, it's just that Slaanesh is being a ******-bag about Gork and Morks' bad habits; Orks are hardly the most refined of species and s/he just can't abide their presence (besides, they keep eating the cards thinking they're the snacks). So on Saturdays, the Big Four play cards (they can't agree on anything more competitive than Uno, even if Tzeentch keeps cheating), but on Sundays Gork, Mork and Khorne get together to play a Boffer-LARP (with chain-axes).

 

 

Slaanesh (being Slaanesh) probably gets off on bad habits.

 

And now I want a chaos themed UNO set! make it happen FFG! (I've givven up on GW and FFG has made some pretty sweet games based on the warhammer/40k licences)

 

chaos_gods_6998.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Lionus: I agree with some of what you're saying, but I think the fundamental nature of the gods is different than what you're proposing. You say they're just ideas, which I don't agree with. They are fed by their domains in the Materium (e.g. slaughter feeds Khorne) but their existence is not unending.

This is backed up with fluff a few times. For example, Slaanesh was created. That's a biggie to me. Additionally, in Warhammer Fantasy, there are different chaos gods. And let's not forget Malvo or whatever, who was the anti-chaos chaos god!

I'm sure that Lynata could jump in here and lay the lore smackdown on this, but it probably comes down to headcanon.

I think you can purge a chaos god from the Warp, but not with bullets. Of course, if my characters end up doing this it won't be with guns, but with some Big Scary Ritual.

If, as both you and I have pointed out, the chaos 'gods' are given power by, fed by, reflections of, or otherwise rely on mortals living outside of the warp, then they are necessarily ideas. They cannot be anything else. Slaanesh was born or created by the so called fall of the Eldar, just like all ideas must have a point of origination. Take Pascal's Wager for example. Before Pascal published that idea, it might have existed in someone else's mind, but had no force because it was only thought of by maybe a few. Since Pascal's Wager has been published in the world, is impossible to erase without burning books, wiping minds and other pretty extreme measures. without the psychic power of the materium, chaos cannot persist. Likewise, barring any extreme change in the psychic emissions coming from the materium, chaos cannot be permanently destroyed or killed. In other words, a point of origin doesn't automatically guarantee an ending point. Especially considering what fuels the 'gods'

I'm not sure what any other gods, whether from fantasy or anything else has to to with the mortality of any 40k gods. I'm interested in what it is you're getting at by bringing them up.

By the way, the big scary ritual you mention is what I was alluding to with the talk of uncomfortable sacrifices and unintended consequences. Maybe it wasn't as obvious as I thought it would be.

I don't want to pour cold water on your idea, I actually really like it. I just know if I was playing a game and the gm told us we were gonna 'kill' a 'god' it would kill my immersion for realsies. I would just time it down to a daemon or something. There's precedent for that in the fluff too. If your player's think it's cool, totally ignore me. I would have too much cognitive dissonance to enjoy that. That's just me.

Edited by Lionus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...