Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Flail-Bot

Most Dangerous Chaos God?

Recommended Posts

Say you could choose to eliminate one Chaos god, which would be the most beneficial for Mankind to have removed?

 

Which god is the greatest threat to the continued existence of Mankind?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Slaanesh.

 

The so-called God of Excess is bound to feed on some of the most prominent emotions of the human population, and draws power and inspiration from it. Nurgle and Tzeentch pale in comparison, only Khorne comes close or is possibly even more powerful. However, Khorne still is not as dangerous on the basis of being too overt in its mindless lust for blood, thus being easier to spot and easier to confront.

 

Slaanesh however is the silent, sneaking corruption that gnaws on people's minds and festers in the shadows at the very heart of a community, until it has reached a critical point and bursts open like a purulent blister in an explosion of violent, debased heresy. Notably, this corruption often tends to manifest within people of power, as they are in the best position to be exposed to excess in the first place, and use their station to further their goals. In doing so, a Planetary Governor or a Ministorum Cardinal can become a powerful pawn of the Ruinous Powers, and make entire worlds fall into ruin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Slaanesh.

 

The so-called God of Excess is bound to feed on some of the most prominent emotions of the human population, and draws power and inspiration from it. Nurgle and Tzeentch pale in comparison, only Khorne comes close or is possibly even more powerful. However, Khorne still is not as dangerous on the basis of being too overt in its mindless lust for blood, thus being easier to spot and easier to confront.

 

Slaanesh however is the silent, sneaking corruption that gnaws on people's minds and festers in the shadows at the very heart of a community, until it has reached a critical point and bursts open like a purulent blister in an explosion of violent, debased heresy. Notably, this corruption often tends to manifest within people of power, as they are in the best position to be exposed to excess in the first place, and use their station to further their goals. In doing so, a Planetary Governor or a Ministorum Cardinal can become a powerful pawn of the Ruinous Powers, and make entire worlds fall into ruin.

 

See, I basically had the same thought, except I concluded Tzeentch. That he was the most insidious, because any plans or schemes or organizations can fall under his purview. Needless complication (hi administratum!) only serves to hinder Mankind, psykers are in his domain and super dangerous, etc. Although we don't really know the end game of Tzeentch, I'm sure that his tendrils are exceedingly widespread. He's just so much more covert than the rest!

Edited by Flail-Bot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All of them are equally dangerous. Too say any one of them is more dangerous than the others is to misunderstand their nature.

 

That might seem like a non-answer, but allow me to explain.

 

The Chaos gods are rivals, they constantly compete with one another to gain an upper hand and when one becomes too powerful the others conspire to weaken them. Kill any one of them and you create a power vacuum that the others will quickly fill, making the three remaining more powerful and dangerous to Mankind.

 

The Chaos gods are also friends on occasion and they pose the biggest threat to Mankind when they throw away old rivalries and unite as "Chaos Undivided". Killing one god centralizes the forces and powers of Chaos, making them easier to unite and what better reason too abandon old rivalries than a bunch of god killers walking around?

 

The threat posed by an individual god will wax and wane as the other three strive too match it's power. But the threat posed by "Chaos" will always remain constant.

Edited by CyanAngel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Slaanesh and Tzeench.

Not just because they are who they are, but because it's two Gods who uses virtues to capture human lives. 

Slaanesh uses passion. Tzeench uses hope. You can be good, decent human without rage or agression, or without humility. But can you be decent human without passion and hope?

 

P.S. ...and yeah, for killing I vote for Nurgle. He is apathy and stagnation and decay, something described as main Imperial problems.

Khorne is not frightful at all.

Edited by Aenno

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd remove Slaanesh. Not because I'm willing to say that one of the four is more powerful than the others, but because of how likely they are to be replaced by a similar god. The other three were created by the various species of the galaxy being themselves. Destroy them and a replacement is likely to form in much the same way.

 

But Slaanesh was created by the heights of the excess of the Eldar empire. Those heights of excess are not likely to be reached again, making a replacement for Slaanesh much less likely. Though not impossible.

 

 

Or you could go after Nurgle. Even though a replacement would arise, that should still give time for Isha to escape. Though the Eldar getting one of their gods back might not be good for humanity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

See, I basically had the same thought, except I concluded Tzeentch. That he was the most insidious, because any plans or schemes or organizations can fall under his purview.

 

At first I had a similar thought -- then I figured, how many people in the Imperium are scheming, versus how many people are trying to achieve bliss? The aspect of "hope" is interesting, but in the end, I figured that Tzeentch is just very ... let's say specialised, and does not occupy nearly as much potential as Slaanesh. Tzeentch is the kind of Chaos God I feel would create considerable chaos, but only after considerable preparation and in a very narrow target field.

 

Perhaps that could even be called a weakness: Tzeentch gains his power through the scheming itself, not from the actual results and aftereffects of a plan. As such, it could be in Tzeentch's interest to even prolong the preparation phase to achieve maximum results. These results will be devastating, but due to the time (which is of no concern to Tzeentch) it would not occur as often as Slaanesh, who is more about the consequences of corruption.

 

The Chaos gods are rivals, they constantly compete with one another to gain an upper hand and when one becomes too powerful the others conspire to weaken them. Kill any one of them and you create a power vacuum that the others will quickly fill, making the three remaining more powerful and dangerous to Mankind.

 

This is a good point as well.

 

Although I would say that the different approaches of the Warp "gods" would mean that they would fill that niche with diminished efficiency. Conflict itself will be eternal, but you'd at least change how it looks and how it affects your society.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be Tzeentch of course, the front of the Ad Ministratum and the whole structure of the Imperium is all his idea.

 

People think they are serving the God-Emperor but slowly people will start to realize that by all these complex rulings and Ad Ministratum rules people will have drifted so far away from the real God-Emperor that they will accept Tzeentch as the God-Emperor himself once he shows himself to the public. It's only a matter of time.

 

After all he has the psychic power to mimic the beacon in the Warp that the Emperor is today. As long as the usurping goes slow enough, no-one will be the wiser.

 

:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps that could even be called a weakness: Tzeentch gains his power through the scheming itself, not from the actual results and aftereffects of a plan. As such, it could be in Tzeentch's interest to even prolong the preparation phase to achieve maximum results. These results will be devastating, but due to the time (which is of no concern to Tzeentch) it would not occur as often as Slaanesh, who is more about the consequences of corruption.

 

 

But problem of Tzeentch is that he is the only god who care about aftereffects of his plan - because they are, well, planned!
Slaanesh can create impressive singular efforts, sure, but Imperium is big enough to compensate any singular effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Perhaps that could even be called a weakness: Tzeentch gains his power through the scheming itself, not from the actual results and aftereffects of a plan. As such, it could be in Tzeentch's interest to even prolong the preparation phase to achieve maximum results. These results will be devastating, but due to the time (which is of no concern to Tzeentch) it would not occur as often as Slaanesh, who is more about the consequences of corruption.

 

 

But problem of Tzeentch is that he is the only god who care about aftereffects of his plan - because they are, well, planned!
Slaanesh can create impressive singular efforts, sure, but Imperium is big enough to compensate any singular effort.

 

 

I'd add that Tzeench seems to be the only Chaos God not prone to self-destructive fits of rage (or otherwise engaging in self-destructive behavior). Slaanesh was noted as once throwing a fit and throwing out one of his best daemons when she tried to cheer her master up, after Slaanesh had his ass handed to him by Khorne. Khorne crippled one of his strongest Bloodthirster in a similar case. Nurgle has that Eldar goddess (who's name escapes me) continually sabotaging his efforts from literally right beside him.

 

Tzeench, to my knowledge does not do stuff like this. He's not prone to acting out of impulse or anger, and he doesn't have any kind of shackle, like Nurgle does, besides his own compulsion to overplan things-- which he manages to turn into a strength, anyways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But problem of Tzeentch is that he is the only god who care about aftereffects of his plan - because they are, well, planned!

 

I don't agree here. If Tzeentch is about the planning and the scheming, then that is his domain. Once a plan has been executed, the scheming has come to an end, thus Tzeentch's power diminishes. On the flipside, those who profited from the plan are now likely to be in a position to engage in widespread murder, torture and excess.

 

But in doing so, they are feeding into Khorne and Slaanesh, no longer Tzeentch.

 

You could say that all this is part of the balance between the Chaos powers that CyanAngel mentioned. After achieving the top position, Tzeentch has to fade away again and is replaced by others. Until the cycle starts anew.

Edited by Lynata

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't agree here. If Tzeentch is about the planning and the scheming, then that is his domain. Once a plan has been executed, the scheming has come to an end, thus Tzeentch's power diminishes. On the flipside, those who profited from the plan are now likely to be in a position to engage in widespread murder, torture and excess.

 

 

Well, but Tzeentch suppresed it with "real plans never end" and "this complex plan is just a prelude to my real complex scheme (which is just a little part of my great gambit (which is just a gambit to my web of corruption (which is just a pawn move in my Great Game)))."
And about Tzeentch domain... First of all Tzeentch "feeds upon the need and desire for change itself" (Chaos Daemons 6th edition). Hope, change, ambition - that's his domain, complex plans are just methods he uses.
Edited by Aenno

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those are well-thought-out arguments about Slaanesh and Tzeench, but I have to go with the overwhelming visceral horror of Papa Nurgle. In addition to the sheer gross-out factor, there is the fact that the seductions of Slaanesh and Tzeench can be consciously resisted, with willpower and faith. Not so the hyper-aggressive, all-invasive 'gifts' of Nurgle...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those are well-thought-out arguments about Slaanesh and Tzeench, but I have to go with the overwhelming visceral horror of Papa Nurgle. In addition to the sheer gross-out factor, there is the fact that the seductions of Slaanesh and Tzeench can be consciously resisted, with willpower and faith. Not so the hyper-aggressive, all-invasive 'gifts' of Nurgle...

As I said, the most dangerous I count Slaanesh and Tzeentch, but to destroy I prefer Nurgle. Not because he is the most dangerous but because he is kind of the most active against Humanity and Imperium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello...

Going to have go with Tzeentch, feeds off conspiracy and intrigue, killing an idea is so much more difficult once it takes root in a person or population.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, but Tzeentch suppresed it with "real plans never end" and "this complex plan is just a prelude to my real complex scheme (which is just a little part of my great gambit (which is just a gambit to my web of corruption (which is just a pawn move in my Great Game)))."

 

That's what I mentioned earlier with Tzeentch drawing out the conclusion. However, his followers don't necessarily comply, seeing as to how most of them will still have their own goals and ambitions -- as such, Tzeentch would have to try and inspire others to step in, which means taking even more time for preparation. For Tzeentch this is alright, as a Warp "god" has all the time it needs. But for the Imperium in realspace, this would mean a time of peace and reconstruction, regardless of what is brewing under the surface.

 

In a way, this is actually beneficial for Tzeentch, too, for unlike the other Chaos gods who just want to swallow everything, Tzeentch is content with preparing the meal, so to speak. Without an Imperium to feed emotional energy into the Immaterium, the Chaos gods would lose an important source of psychic food (the resulting Chaos realms would be much smaller due to loss of life and continuous struggle between the conquering warbands), yet Khorne, Slaanesh and Nurgle aren't "planning ahead" and only following the primal instinct of immediate corruption and consumption.

 

Of course, with Tzeentch this is but an unintentional side-effect rather than actual intelligence (seeing as how any and all Chaos gods are merely expressions of emotions and dreams), but it still means improved long time survival. Yet just like with our human nations on the real life world still suffering from our neighbours polluting the environment, Tzeentch has to cope with his buddies ripping the Imperium apart in their hunger anyways.

 

It does explain why Tzeentch is leaning closer towards Slaanesh than Khorne when it comes to alliances, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Of course, with Tzeentch this is but an unintentional side-effect rather than actual intelligence (seeing as how any and all Chaos gods are merely expressions of emotions and dreams), but it still means improved long time survival.

 

Well, not "merely". They are quite complex expressions with their own personalities. Mere expression of emotion and dream can't rip your head away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I wanted to convey is that they don't rip your head away because they "want" to -- they literally have no other choice, as it is the essence of this being. And it's all the result of the emotions and dreams fed into the Immaterium.

 

It could even be argued that this renders them vulnerable to change at the mercy of their prey ... at least in theory, for it is unlikely that the Imperium would change anytime soon.

 

I do have that little pet theory that the Chaos gods are related to the old Eldar gods though (there are some very conspicuous resemblances in Eldar lore), and that their current shape and activity is just because it's no longer the Eldar who are the dominant presence in the Warp, but the teeming masses of humanity.

It's just a thought, though, as I have no "proof" other than a couple indications. But I do enjoy little twists like this. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always believed it's two-way relationship. Daemons affect Materium, psykers affect Immaterium, so current state for both realities is some kind of unwilling "consensus". Result of all forces actions.

Maybe daemons thing that it's THEY is something that modulate mortal minds some way, why not? How to proof what's right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Say you could choose to eliminate one Chaos god, which would be the most beneficial for Mankind to have removed?

 

Which god is the greatest threat to the continued existence of Mankind?

 

The correct answer to the latter is "none of them". They are all equally great a threat to mankind.

 

As for the former, there is an argument for killing off Nurgle. He is the death-god and brings it about through his many plagues. Remove the source of those plagues and yes, you still have to deal with the other three Chaos Gods, but their influence can be purged through fire and pain. Once Nurgle has you infected with his corruption, nothing, not even death, can save your soul, for his is the domain of death and suffering.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always believed it's two-way relationship. Daemons affect Materium, psykers affect Immaterium, so current state for both realities is some kind of unwilling "consensus". Result of all forces actions.

 

Reminds me of how some people attest how Abbadon and Chaos must suck if they've tried so many crusades to strike at Terra with all of them (supposedly) failing. What they don't see is that it is not in Chaos' interest to secure total victory. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nesh and Tzeench are both vastly overstated as a threat. Their 'corruption' tends to affect the upper 1%, which, as countless examples in canon have shone, are easily replaced by another beaurocrat once the corruption has been located. Both are easy to weed out and fairly conspicous for so-called "subtle" deities.

 

If you want the biggest danger to the Imperium, it's Nurgle, who's pretty much unstoppable in the current constellation of the galaxy. Nevermind he's the only one of the big four with a chosen one who just flies about destroying entire imperial systems without much difficulty.

 

As for why I haven't mentioned Khorne, well, depending what you read, Khorne is on all sides in this conflict.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Beware the Daemon! They let that cursed Psykers break into our Immaterial realm, so you should report any Daemon unchained you meet to proper authorities! And never, never dare you play with Materium yourself or it will destroy your essence!"
>from teaching of great Immaterial realms.

"- And, after all, you have started first. We didn't touch you until your Old Ones pierced our domains and destroyed them!"
>from diplomatic protocols between Materium and Immaterium leaders.

Edited by Aenno

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nesh and Tzeench are both vastly overstated as a threat. Their 'corruption' tends to affect the upper 1%, which, as countless examples in canon have shone, are easily replaced by another beaurocrat once the corruption has been located. Both are easy to weed out and fairly conspicous for so-called "subtle" deities.

 

The upper 1% tend to drag entire planets into the mess, though, and replacing them tends to come at a rather high cost.

 

Nurgle on the other hand can only really rely on the lower end populace to establish starting influence, but also has a much lower general appeal. People are usually more interested in art, sex and fine foods than destructive nihilism, and ultimately, a bunch of plague bearers hiding in the sewers just do not seem as threatening to me as a corrupted Ministorum Cardinal or Planetary Governor with control over professional armed forces and the ability to pass and enforce new laws.

 

It's a lot easier to fight Chaos when you can clearly see it. The real threat is what you cannot see.

 

And from what I've read, all the Chaos gods have some rather potent champions capable of wreaking havoc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...